[shortbread]

For me, Safari's biggest strength is that it's a post Beta test proven vehicle. This has always been an achilles heel for new products from the manufacturer.

Tata's two year learning curve with the Omegarc platform has seen the manufacturer learn from it's past shortcomings and getting the quality right. The Harrier's launch left a lot to be desired but the improvements made since have been noticeable.

This will bide well for the Safari/Gravitas customers from day one, rather than the norm of placing an anxious bet on a new Tata launch.

The interview provides incisive insights into the improvements made on the Harrier, albeit has a slightly promotional feel to the questionnaire. Nonetheless a good watch for the technically minded especially from a quality perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56auQEAyfl4

[RoadAtlas]

Originally Posted by ashis89

Please recheck the facts.

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

Really? Where did you get this info from? just look at the wheelbase and track of both cars and you can see that they are different platforms.

Hi Ashis and Himanshu, I may be partially wrong here, I accept and apologize in that case, not completely. The wheelbase IS similar. Excerpt from the Official review of Tiago:

Originally Posted by S2!!!

It has the shortest wheelbase compared to the two and, interestingly, the wheelbase is identical to the Indica! Tata insists that this is an "all-new" platform, but we've heard that the floorpan is the same as the ol' Indica's. Heavily reworked, of course.

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

170 nm torque from a 1.2L petrol is low? how about 175 nm from the much vaunted VW 1.2 TSI?

I think we both can agree that engine is WAY old. It was introduced in 2013 Originally , they were developed in 2011 (EA-111 was introduced in 1974, EA-211 was on 2011):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._engines#EA111
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksw...engine#1.2_TSI

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

Swapping AL with steel is to lower costs else one would be paying twice as much for the Harrier. as regards the "loaned engine", what's your basis for this statement? by this yardstick every DDIS engine in every Maruti is also a "loaned engine".

You may not like TML, and that's fine, but your statements are really over the top.

I was pointing to the lack of innovation here. Please note that neither the platform nor the Engine was developed by Tata. This was their flagship product, could they not have put a bit more effort here?

The very process of siphoning technology from a superior acquired company and use it for a mass market product is heavily looked down upon in Auto Industry (like when Fiat used Ferrari engines in their cars). We ourselves dislike Force using 15 year old Mercedes engines, why should it be any different for Tata?

Originally Posted by RK79

Zest and Bolt are based on Vista/Manza platforms. Tiago and Nexon are new platforms.

I beg to differ. Excerpt from the official review of Nexon:

Originally Posted by Aditya

The Nexon isn't based on a new platform like the Tiago and Tigor, but uses the same old X1 platform that underpins the Zest & Bolt (first seen in the Indica Vista).

Originally Posted by Raghuwire

Off topic! But ya they built a brand new car Altroz on a new platform, they are building hbx. Old platform does not in any way compromise the superb safety or performance of Nexon. Tiago and Tigor look the best in segment and they in no way marketed them as scorchers. They did launch the JTP versions of it for the purists! The company which has churned out 6 new cars in the last 5 years with multiple variants and engine options. When was the last model released by the market leader? How many models released by other global players? It is easy to cherry pick dislikes and be an armchair critic!

My dear Sir, I did not mention anything about safety. Out of the 6 cars they produced 5 use engines using the same 2 architectures, over and over again. The other one I have already discussed about up.

Please understand, compared to the process of developing a new engine from ground us, the process of adding a turbocharger or a new cylinder to a turbo diesel engine is astoundingly simpler. I would call it a retrofit, not a proper development.

The market leader is losing his position very very fast as they are very averse to innovation and improvement. It Tata clings to the same jargon, they will lose their business faster.

[yd_gli]

So a little bit a contrarian view to the "Safari" is an aspirational viewpoint. I was with friends this afternoon, most of who are well to do and drive Tucsons and a Compass. These are the typical kind of people who would buy a ~27-30L 7 seater SUV. (35-40 year olds, good jobs, travel by road frequently)

On talking I realized that the name "Safari" does not bring up any aspiration or emotion of the positive kind with them. On the contrary it brings up a frown stemming from the fact that the original product was nothing to write home about in terms of quality/engineering or social status. See, none of them would buy a Safari. They all preferred Gravitas as a name. In fact most wondered as to why Tata cannot create a sub brand (like Genesis, Infinity etc) to promote their high end vehicles. Most just don't want to have a Tata badge and a Safari name just makes it worse. Maybe and I think just maybe, the term Safari might hold aspirational value in the Tier 2-3 cities but come to a metro and it might just backfire. A classier, modern name and brand would probably be easier to sell to the metro city audience.

[museycal]

Originally Posted by yd_gli

In fact most wondered as to why Tata cannot create a sub brand (like Genesis, Infinity etc) to promote their high end vehicles. Most just don't want to have a Tata badge and a Safari name just makes it worse. Maybe and I think just maybe, the term Safari might hold aspirational value in the Tier 2-3 cities but come to a metro and it might just backfire.

I concur on a separate brand identity from Tata for their high-end cars. I think that since Tata Motors is in very nascent stage of building and selling aspirational and desirable cars (just 4 to 5 years), they are treading waters carefully.

As per my observation, Tata Motors right now is on path to getting to the stage where the Japanese car companies like Toyota, Honda and Nissan were in late 70s & early 80s and Hyundai was in late 2000s. They established their products in matured/developed markets, and then, to move up the value chain the brands like Lexus, Acura, Infiniti and Genesis came in to being.

A very recent example is that of Hyundai Genesis, introduced under Hyundai banner, and then branching off to become their luxury arm.

For Tata, only now people have warmed up to the idea of plonking 25 big ones on cars with the desi 'T' badge.

However, this Safari branding, it seems more about salvaging the brand equity of an existing brand to save/bolster a seemingly lost product!

[uday.ere]

Safari front tweeted by Tata Motors. Slight difference compared to Harrier. Love that blue shade tho.

Source : Tata Social Media handles.
https://twitter.com/TataMotors_Cars/...25637372669952

[vigneshkumar31]

Yes, finally we are seeing some differentiation from the smaller Harrier. Tata:s design team has not disappointed us with any of their recent launches, I hope they can pull a sophisticated impact design on the Safari.
It would be wicked if they could launch all variants at launch with a hard to ignore price tag. But I guess the AWD would come later only.

[Sebring]

So the 'tri-point' design is back. I thought they took that off and made it 'bi-point', coming under some pressure. But the tilted units look great. That blue looks lovely

Originally Posted by uday.ere

Safari front tweeted by Tata Motors. Slight difference compared to Harrier. Love that blue shade tho.

[krishnakarthik1]

'Rugged', 'body-on-frame', 'rear wheel drive', 'four wheel drive', 'low transfer ratio' etc. etc. will not be applicable for the majority of the middle class folks like me who even slow down on speed breakers as to not damage the shock absorbers.

This first version of Safari is just fine for the majority. All we are worried about is if Tata salesman will even let us buy this in the first place.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by ph03n!x

An iconic car is NOT something that you can mistake for another.

So the Thar isn't iconic then I suppose.





It's really amusing when one manufacturer gets defended for copying shamelessly while another is crucified for re-using one of their own nameplate and building a car that has underpinnings from a legendary 4WD maker that they bought legally.

Anyways, I have no clue on how the market will react. Off late it's what on the surface that matters and not the substance inside. Good luck to Tata.

[PrideRed]

Safari had a big fan following and this new avatar should have had come much earlier. With first model running long and absent in market for over a year, Tata will have to put extra efforts to bring back memories. Overall design does look like a evolution which is a good thing,looking forward for "Reclaim your life" series of ad's.

[Pashin]

9.5 out of 10 Safari owners choose a 4x2. I remember the long wait I had to endure while looking for a Used Safari 4x4 about 15 years back. I remember the 1st lot of Safaris coming only in the fully loaded trim with 4x4. It was only sometime later that Tata had to come out with LX/EX and 4x2 as an option. I've used one for over 5 years and 60k kms and can vouch for its ahead-of-time features and ruggedness. It was practically a vehicle you could Ram over / into almost anything.

Tata has matured recently with the clever packaging of the Nexon/ EV and Altroz. I would wait for the new Safari reveal before jumping to conclusions unlike most people here who have aready jumped the gun and have gone about the usual Tata bashing spree.

Originally Posted by yd_gli

So a little bit a contrarian view to the "Safari" is an aspirational viewpoint. I was with friends this afternoon, most of who are well to do and drive Tucsons and a Compass. These are the typical kind of people who would buy a ~27-30L 7 seater SUV. (35-40 year olds, good jobs, travel by road frequently)

On talking I realized that the name "Safari" does not bring up any aspiration or emotion of the positive kind with them. On the contrary it brings up a frown stemming from the fact that the original product was nothing to write home about in terms of quality/engineering or social status. See, none of them would buy a Safari. They all preferred Gravitas as a name. In fact most wondered as to why Tata cannot create a sub brand (like Genesis, Infinity etc) to promote their high end vehicles. Most just don't want to have a Tata badge and a Safari name just makes it worse. Maybe and I think just maybe, the term Safari might hold aspirational value in the Tier 2-3 cities but come to a metro and it might just backfire. A classier, modern name and brand would probably be easier to sell to the metro city audience.

Perception is a dangerous trait and can often be miles away from the truth. In terms of quality, engineering and social status the 1st generation Safari was miles ahead of its rivals both domestic and international. Having used one extensively I can vouch for all the above. The Safari was what the Fortuner is today, a SUV for the Builders/Mantris/ Wealthy individuals apart from the aspirational fans like myself. The vinyl wrapped soft dash and door pads are something I've missed in every car I've owned after the Safari, not to forget the shift on fly 4x4. The rear seat comfort was one that even the Fortuner of today can't match.

[yd_gli]

Originally Posted by Pashin

Perception is a dangerous trait and can often be miles away from the truth. In terms of quality, engineering and social status the 1st generation Safari was miles ahead of its rivals both domestic and international.

You may be right! But perception of quality, engineering and social status is what sells cars in India and not the actual parameters. Which is why the Hector outsells the Harrier and the Creta pretty much outsells everything else. Sorry state but it is what it is.

[Holyghost]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Nope.

Shall update more as I receive them.

Any info on the 4x4 versions? Do they really have a plan for that?

[ph03n!x]

Originally Posted by kiku007

So the Thar isn't iconic then I suppose.

Look at the Thar's grill and tell me you mistook it for a FCA Jeep, I will excuse you

But point is, M&M jeeps have made their mark in THIS country/ market - where jeep = M&M jeep. Don't believe me? Pick up any hill station or difficult terrain in India and look around. I'll let FCA and M&M tussle it out while I watch munching popcorn, sitting in my Thar with the convertible top open!

Back to Gravitas - I am not saying that Tata is wrong to use the Safari brand, no. Not at all. But they ain't doing justice to the brand by calling a Harrier+ as Safari - is my opinion. Had they NOT launched the Harrier at all, and instead launched the Gravitas as Safari in the first place then this discussion would have been moot - I would have gladly added a 3rd Tata to my garage!

If the post you quoted did not give that message, then I probably should sharpen my pencils better.

Originally Posted by uday.ere

Safari front tweeted by Tata Motors. Slight difference compared to Harrier. Love that blue shade tho.

Source : Tata Social Media handles.
https://twitter.com/TataMotors_Cars/...25637372669952

I'd rather they brought the headlight cluster to where the DRL/ indicator is, with the same shape/ flow of the the bumper + DRL. Would have looked awesome, and will be a definitive differentiation from the Harrier's face! Sigh...

[armaan_singh]

Originally Posted by pseudo_coder

Then buy the base variant

There is nothing to explain really. If the family knows the old Safari, they will know at first glance that this is a different and more premium car.

Well to give it some perspective, would you buy a car called "Maruti 800" costing say 15 Lacs.

Some may, some may not, but I personally wouldn't and would prefer a fresh name for a fresh identity.