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Old 13th January 2021, 15:14   #796
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

I just went through some old videos of Gravitas at the Auto Expo. One more change with respect to Harrier I could find is presence of ambient lighting ahead of the Mode selector buttons, behind the front centre armrest and in all four door handles. It looked kinda similar to Blue lounge lighting found in the current XUV500.

I hope they do provide it, as IMO it elevates the interior ambience considerably at night.
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Old 13th January 2021, 15:46   #797
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

I think Safari should be launched with a starting introductory price. The reason being : Most of the people in the target segment will be having at least one car. And the Safari will be the second car in their homes.

I'll tell you what I am thinking. My heart says to go for Safari but my mind says to wait for Hyundai 7 seater and the XUV500. As offices are closed and we are not going outstation trips, it does not make sense to spend close to 26-27 lakhs as an impulsive buy.

So, until unless it's launched very close to harrier prices, I should wait. So, introductory price, at launch, is a must.
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Old 13th January 2021, 15:50   #798
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 07CR View Post
How about comparison with the Hector in that case? Or even the XUV500/XUV300 vs Harrier (2019)/Nexon? In both cases the competition was pretty well loaded, and didn't skimp on the safety features as well.
Harrier v1.0 definitely the launch was messed up, they would been fine even the launch was delayed by 6-7 months. Still it is lacking in features but as market is warming to it we may see more features added to it.

Nexon, is a different story, though little less on features as compared to XUV 3OO but price wise it was cheaper (before XUV 3OO price correction)

Nexon offers all the minimum safety feature (TC, ESP, ABS, Hill assist etc) as standard from the base version itself. It has now established itself and the monthly numbers are showing.

XUV 3OO would have been success but because of initial price and less boot space it really didnt capture people mind and the market. This shows how important is initial pricing. M&M is master of this, was surprised to see the original price of XUV 3OO.

However, M&M will not make the same mistake again with XUV 5OO.

So Safari will have to have AWD and some other modern features (in subsequent updates) if it has to stay in market for long innings. If not then it may win 20-20 match but lose the ultimate test match.

Personally, I am looking for a 4x4 capable family SUV. Somehow at that time, mind played games and didnt go for Hexa 4x4.

But with renaming and reviving the Safari badge, TML has set the cat amongst the pigeon in MG Hector camp.

People will now hold their purchase for 7 str and will check out the Safari and then take a call.

Now only if TML gives a mouthwatering price tag to Safari. Times have really changed a 7L Safari will be now be starting around 15L.

-PK
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Old 13th January 2021, 15:54   #799
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Just in my personal opinion and having tackled some difficult terrains in my Hexa XTA (4x2) I think what would hurt more is lack of RWD setup in the Safari and having a FWD setup vs an AWD / 4x4 which increases cost. The moment you need to climb a steep incline unless you have momentum you are not going to go places in a FWD setup. I'm not sure if it was possible to have longitudinal engine setup in D8 / OmegaArc platform but if it was, that's what should have been tried. I also find there are lesser chances of the tail swinging out, vs dealing with Torque steer from high torque FWD cars.

Last edited by TORQUE_AANJANEY : 13th January 2021 at 15:54. Reason: Typo
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Old 13th January 2021, 16:06   #800
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VOLANTE View Post
The all new Tata Safari cruising on road. What a road presence this SUV has got, almost dwarfed the Innova!
Is it pitching too much, or it's just the weird cuts and edits of the video?
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Old 13th January 2021, 16:07   #801
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
Classic case of don't meet your heroes.
Not really a hero, but I love the way he made Tata cars desirable.
Personally I would not blame Mr.Bose. He is a design guy and an employee of TML so he will defend TML's decision at any cost. I don't expect that he will reflect enthusiasts sentiments against TML's decision in any public forum. May be he will forward those customer demands to their market research team and decision makers. Regarding his comment on market demand, I interpret that he means the sales data of AWD vehicles from the competitors (e.g. XUV500) in the respective segment for the past x years. If there is a market demand, TML will offer AWD otherwise it is their loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
I had commented on the number of vehicles still on Bof, and companies developing next gen BoFs, including Mahindra and even Hyundai-Kia.
Could you please list out those BoF, AWD SUV's in the new Safari price segment being offered in the Indian market and their price list. And how many customers right now will be ready to buy a Tata product in that price point. May be once TML establishes itself in the premium segment then it may offer such a product but for now TML has just stepped into the 20+ lacs price segment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 07CR View Post
How about comparison with the Hector in that case?
In Harrier vs. Hector, Hector offers more features for the same price however only Harrier offers much needed & useful autobox (for additional price) with diesel engine, better driving dynamics and macho looks (subjective). I agree that Harrier has to offer additional useful bling features such as more responsive & larger touchscreen, ventilated seats, powered tailgate, etc. even if it costs few thousands more and Harrier customers will be ready to pay for them happily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 07CR View Post
Or even the XUV500/XUV300 vs Harrier (2019)/Nexon? In both cases the competition was pretty well loaded, and didn't skimp on the safety features as well.
However in CSUV segment, only XUV300 and Nexon are 5-star safety rated vehicles. Both offers almost same features with XUV300 offering additional airbags for a slight premium. The Korean competitors are loaded to the brim but you cannot say that they didn't skimp on safety features until the vehicles are tested (remember the feature loaded Seltos with marginal 3-star safety rating).
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Old 13th January 2021, 16:25   #802
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Pratap Bose is right regarding body on frame as not future proof. A ladder frame will not support an electric drive train as easily as a monocoque one. It's cost effective to have a monocoque shell for such application.
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Old 13th January 2021, 16:32   #803
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VOLANTE View Post
The all new Tata Safari cruising on road. What a road presence this SUV has got, almost dwarfed the Innova!
Is it just me or did the ride seem too bouncy in this?
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Old 13th January 2021, 19:04   #804
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarathlal View Post
Is it pitching too much, or it's just the weird cuts and edits of the video?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pelican90 View Post
Is it just me or did the ride seem too bouncy in this?
Yes, I think we all did it. Have they retuned the suspension?
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Old 13th January 2021, 19:10   #805
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Lets think about it from Tata's side. They are not exactly the most profitable company in the world. Thus, they have to be very careful where they are allocating their R&D budget. Their goal is to increase their ratio to investment ratio.

Thus they made the logical decision to develop a Monocoque and predominantly FWD platform to be the underpinnings of their future vehicles focused on volumes (I.e. pseudo SUVs and SoftRoaders). There is very less chance of a 4x4 version. Maybe they'll have an AWD 2 years later, but that's it.

Let's be honest here, they named this car the Safari purely for marketing purposes akin to how Ford calls their electric car a Mustang.

While a few enthusiats cry about, Tata watering down the legacy of the Safari brand, they just grabbed the eyeballs from a large market of buyers looking for comfortable 7 seaters. Add to that good SUV looks and Tata calling it their "premium" "flagship" product is enough to make a lot of potential Hector 7 seater and Innova customers to consider the "Safari". Even a lot of people looking at the Jeep Compass will look at the "Safari" because I believe Tata will try pricing it in that ballpark

The Safari is a powerful brandname that has a lot of gravity, enough to attract a lot of the folks who are at a stage in life when they can afford it.
Tata might be okay with losing a few 4x4 customers, if it means they can attract a lot of new ones, who have settled down and want to splurge a little and look good.

Last edited by ZenMaster : 13th January 2021 at 19:10. Reason: Typo
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Old 13th January 2021, 19:16   #806
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Something I noticed in the Indian car crushes thread - the Safari is probably mentioned the most. Now if you read the reason, they all share a similar theme of go anywhere, reclaim your life - exactly what the advertisements are about.

For me the go anywhere ability, the slogan "Reclaim your life" is what made the Safari special. I think of the 4x4 system as the soul/essence of a Safari and that has just gone missing. I get why Tata is leveraging the Safari brand and I have nothing against the vehicle it was named something else.

What might end up happening is that the Safari name won't tug at your heartstrings anymore. Do you think the new Safari would feature in a similar thread a decade or two down the line?

Last edited by unknowntrainer : 13th January 2021 at 19:28. Reason: Adding a couple more lines
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Old 13th January 2021, 19:27   #807
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DicKy View Post
Classic case of don't meet your heroes.
Not really a hero, but I love the way he made Tata cars desirable.

The need for AWD, 4X4 has been beautifully given by BHPians in the above posts.
In fact, a crude analogy would be Tata's present trump card. Safety.

"Yeah, our cars are 4, 5 star rated and safe"
"So what? Do you want me to crash and find it out?...Wait, when was the last time you had a crash?"
I know, it is stupid to compare safety with 4x4/AWD, still.
Most of Pratap Bose's replies feels that way.
This safety analogy is beautifully put, at least in my opinion. It may not be an apples to apples comparison, but it does bring out the nuance beautifully. The market appears to be more than happy with poorly crash rated cars (unless they are an unwilling part of the demographic. For example, the notched phones mentioned in my previous post). It may be due to lack of knowledge for the casual car buyer, but even among us enthusiasts, our priorities may dictate that the safety aspect take a back seat. Does it mean manufacturers should cull the 4/5 star cars from the market because they don't sell as much as the Maruti's and Hyundai's of India, even if similarly priced? That the R&D that goes into these cars be stopped altogether? Should we shoo away the person wanting a crash worthy car citing statistics and minuscule probability of getting into a life threatening crash during his/her lifetime? Should they be told that the poorly rated cars comply to the (inferior) standards set by the Government of India and there's nothing to worry about? Should we shun GNCAP altogether for being a 'self-proclaimed party'? Or do we crucify the person who bought the unsafe car because of other priorities?

I think we should be able understand both the perspectives. Tata and Mahindra struck a chord with their exceptional crash ratings. It came as a surprise when the GNCAP results of Nexon came out. GNCAP has played a part in showing the reality of Indian car market. We are now more informed thanks to that. But this attempt at shooing away customers because 'they don't know what Safari actually meant' doesn't seem to be in good taste. Sure you may defend your product, but you shouldn't dictate why the Safari was special to them. That part is best left to the admirer's imagination.

I was one of those who used to bash Tata products as noisy, unrefined, wobbly and ugly because that is the perception the old Indica created in my mind and I wasn't willing to give them a second chance. After GNCAP, my thoughts have changed; I have a newfound respect for our Indian manufacturers. For the first time I was actually proud of Indian engineering and our own heritage. I was proud that it could give the Indian customer what the foreign manufacturers didn't even deem us worthy of.

While it's true that my family's most recent acquisition was a Hyundai, and I couldn't walk the talk, but it came after a lot of heated arguments around crash ratings. Unfortunately, I couldn't prevail because they were dead set on a diesel sedan. That was the one time, the lack of a Tata/Mahindra alternative really frustrated me. I would've had a 90%+ chance of putting the money where my mouth was, because my family already loved the Harrier (I know it's not a sedan or even crash rated), but it was way out of budget. Heck, even a 4m+ compact SUV positioned below the Harrier might just have done the trick if I was argumentative enough.

Tata/Mahindra have forged an emotional bond with me since then, because it seems like they care. The fact that Nexon straight up scored 4 star on the first try seems to indicate they were working in the shadows, even when nobody asked them to. Like a protective mother who always wants her child to be safe, despite not showing it. What GNCAP did, was bring that protective instinct to the spotlight. Yes, some of my expectations may be too over the top, but I am driven by emotion, not rationale when it comes to these two. I want them to succeed, and comprehensively at that.
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Old 13th January 2021, 19:45   #808
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

I think 20 pages are more than enough to discuss whether TATA needs to equip Safari with 4X4 or not! This is getting a bit out of hand. I have been waiting to reply on this thread but this discussion on 4X4 is never ending! Can mods please put up a message?

Coming back to renaming it as Safari, Well of course it's TATA's wish to milk their brand name and they can do what they want. People somehow tend to think the updated harrier is still a niggle filled inefficient car. I am sure all those issues are ironed out for Safari as well and it's going to be a superb vehicle.

My issue with TATA has been the timing of launch. Now we have Altroz turbo launch on 22 and Safari unveil(?) 4 days later. Why can't there be a proper planned gap so that both are not eating into each other's marketing space? It's like they want to launch everything in January only. Tiago, Hexa, Altroz, Harrier. Everything in January only.
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Old 13th January 2021, 19:48   #809
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Pratap Bose talks with TOI regarding the Safari:
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Old 13th January 2021, 20:29   #810
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Default Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venkatesh View Post
Tata Safari spied during night testing

Attachment 2107854

Source : Rushlane
Looks like the new Safari doesn't get independent rear suspensions (as seen in this picture). That would have been a nice update.
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