[gururajrv]

Latest quarter front pic is starting to make an impression on me. It looks absolutely stunning - especially, the stance! Hope, Tata sorts out any undulance from the Harrier and make this product stand out in the crowd of Seltos & Hector’s.

[Octy17]

Sorry for going slightly off topic.
Tata motors should seriously consider launching the Harrier / Buzzard equipped with Safari's 4WD system. They are bleeding market share fast.

[srishiva]

Although I like Tata's new designs, there are some things that might be tiring to your eyes like over design on the rears ! An SUV looks butch if it has square or rounded panels without too much of creases etc. Nexon is an example of that. The rear is really childish.

The Chinese have just started. Not sure what will happen when they start bombarding our market with models in many segments. Tata is trying to bring models in segments which already have matured leaders.

[ram87pune]

Originally Posted by Octy17

Sorry for going slightly off topic.
Tata motors should seriously consider launching the Harrier / Buzzard equipped with Safari's 4WD system. They are bleeding market share fast.

First things first. As I have mentioned earlier, the Harrier duo is not getting the 4WD/AWD variant for a few years atleast. And even if they do launch one, it is not going to do anything drastic to their market share. Only a handful of people are going to buy that variant.

And bang on as per my scoop, we see the reworked ORVMs.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by Octy17

Sorry for going slightly off topic.

Tata motors should seriously consider launching the Harrier / Buzzard equipped with Safari's 4WD system. They are bleeding market share fast.

I do not think its the AWD. Rather its Automatics which is the need of the hour. Tata needs ATs in at least 2 variants each in the Harrier and the Buzzard. And plus the overall quality levels have to be at least at par with their own cars such as the Hexa. You have the Harrier being sandwiched by cars like the Seltos and the Compass which are fairly sorted in terms of quality levels.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by Octy17

Sorry for going slightly off topic.
Tata motors should seriously consider launching the Harrier / Buzzard equipped with Safari's 4WD system. They are bleeding market share fast.

Safari's BW 4x4 can never make its way into the Harrier/Buzzard. Why? Simply because the Safari is an RWD vehicle in which integrating a low range transfer case is much easier & reliable. As a ladder frame build - theoretically its more abuse friendly and it makes sense to add a prpoer part-time 4x4 in it. Harrier/Buzzard are primarily FWD designs with transverse engine mounting. Generally not as abuse friendly as the simpler ladder-frames. An automatic AWD system with more electronic controls like TC/ESP etc, make more sense. (Similar to the Duster for example.)

Originally Posted by motorworks

I do not think its the AWD. Rather its Automatics which is the need of the hour. Tata needs ATs in at least 2 variants each in the Harrier and the Buzzard. And plus the overall quality levels have to be at least at par with their own cars such as the Hexa. You have the Harrier being sandwiched by cars like the Seltos and the Compass which are fairly sorted in terms of quality levels.

Improve the quality & still the Seltos will sell higher. (Compass is selling far lesser than the Harrier, so the comparison is a bit off.) Why? Because the Harrier is actually an absolute odd-one-out in the price bracket.

TML is showing the car doing off roading, dune bashing, jungle dwelling. And claiming to be "ABOVE ALL" with the Harrier. You cannot boast of such capabilities without having an AWD system in the spec sheet or the last column of variants in the brochure. It is imperative for TML to actually throw in an AWD in the Harrier and Buzzard. There has to be a USP for these 2 & right now there is absolutely NOTHING.

The AWD badge adds to credentials, aspiration quotient, buyer interest & confidence in the product's capability. TML should simply not expect high sales volumes for the AWD. But it will actually ensure a surge in 2WD numbers. TML makes the Hexa, Safari Storme on order now. Not en-bulk. So the same manufacturing process can be applied for Harrier/Buzzard AWD.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

TML is showing the car doing off roading, dune bashing, jungle dwelling. And claiming to be "ABOVE ALL" with the Harrier. You cannot boast of such capabilities without having an AWD system in the spec sheet or the last column of variants in the brochure. It is imperative for TML to actually throw in an AWD in the Harrier and Buzzard. There has to be a USP for these 2 & right now there is absolutely NOTHING.

Sorry, but if Tata were to add AWD, it would be just akin to ticking a box and nothing else. It would not suddenly change perceptions about the product or create new opinion in the customers mind. One of the best examples is XUV500, if im not wrong it did not have AWD from day one and it still managed to do well. And one of the main reasons is the presence of an automatic. Currently there are more than 3 auto box variants in the XUV500, so that says a lot about where the demand is. The Harrier had great buzz heading in to the market, and I think the issue has been the lack of an auto box and also the word of mouth experiences that have led to lower conversions.

And the reason I mentioned the compass was not for sales perspective, but rather to take an example of the quality levels that exist in the segment. So customer expectations from Harrier would be no less. And this is the area that Tata needs to get right.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by motorworks

Sorry, but if Tata were to add AWD, it would be just akin to ticking a box and nothing else. It would not suddenly change perceptions about the product or create new opinion in the customers mind. One of the best examples is XUV500, if im not wrong it did not have AWD from day one and it still managed to do well. And one of the main reasons is the presence of an automatic.

But the XUV500 does have an AWD. It was launched not too far from launch. And - it sells. Many are regularly seen on roads.

Of course automatic is a necessity. But in addition AWD will garner much needed interest. I'm not putting AWD over autobox to be clear. My point of view only.

Originally Posted by motorworks

And the reason I mentioned the compass was not for sales perspective, but rather to take an example of the quality levels that exist in the segment. So customer expectations from Harrier would be no less. And this is the area that Tata needs to get right.

Compass is not in Harrier segment IMHO. Thanks to its dimensions and pricing, Compass is in a segment exclusive to itself. We shouldn't compare those two just because a petrol Compass costs similar to a Harrier.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

But the XUV500 does have an AWD. It was launched not too far from launch. And - it sells. Many are regularly seen on roads.
Compass is not in Harrier segment IMHO. Thanks to its dimensions and pricing, Compass is in a segment exclusive to itself. We shouldn't compare those two just because a petrol Compass costs similar to a Harrier.

I think we are digressing from the topic. The whole question is whether having AWD would help the Harrier and the Buzzard. And I think it will not. The top 2 issues plaguing the Harrier right now is lack of an automatic and the quality issues that are being widely reported. And the other thing Tata must address is probably the bare bones entry level variant which make no sense considering it costs 16-17 lakhs anyway. Having an AWD may help pushing sales by 5-10% but Tata needs to address the other points to take care of the 90% of sales.

MOD NOTE: Please quote ONLY the relevant bits of a post. Thanks.

[Guna]

Originally Posted by motorworks

whole question is whether having AWD would help the Harrier and the Buzzard. And I think it will not. The top 2 issues plaguing the Harrier right now is lack of an automatic and the quality issues that are being widely reported. And the other thing Tata must address is probably the bare bones entry level variant which make no sense considering it costs 16-17 lakhs anyway. Having an AWD may help pushing sales by 5-10% but Tata needs to address the other points to take care of the 90% of sales.

Here is my belief:
Having AWD allows the TML to position the Harrier as a 'go anywhere' kind of a lifestyle vehicle (much like the positioning of LR Discovery) This will differentiate it from the Seltos, Hectors and Cretas of the world. Once it becomes an aspirational product/brand, it helps in drawing the attention. Many would still go fo a 2WD variant but the 4WD helps indirectly.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by motorworks

And the other thing Tata must address is probably the bare bones entry level variant which make no sense considering it costs 16-17 lakhs anyway.

This is 110% true. You are absolutely right here.

Originally Posted by motorworks

Having an AWD may help pushing sales by 5-10% but Tata needs to address the other points to take care of the 90% of sales.

The car sells ~1000 units a month. 10% is 100 cars a month.
Let's assume the AWD is offered on a variant retailing at 17L Ex showroom.

We are looking at an annual turnover of INR 2,04,00,00,000.00 by sale of AWD variant by very superficial estimations. Giving up on it is a suicidal mistake for a car maker trying to make a mark IMHO.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to argue with you. Its just a healthy discussion which I'm finding very interesting. Financially sure it may make sense to ignore AWD. But for an engineer - it hurts to give up on some expertise that they already have!

The grime is - with BSVI - Safari Storme will go out. M&M will have Scorpio & XUV500 still available in AWD without any competition at all. There will be absolutely no AWD available from TML (HEXA is a big unknown). For the Buzzard to sell well - the AWD sure will help in better brand positioning & marketing with capability card. (And same in turns for Harrier.)

[rajneeesh]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

This is 110% true. You are absolutely right here.



The grime is - with BSVI - Safari Storme will go out. M&M will have Scorpio & XUV500 still available in AWD without any competition at all. There will be absolutely no AWD available from TML (HEXA is a big unknown). For the Buzzard to sell well - the AWD sure will help in better brand positioning & marketing with capability card. (And same in turns for Harrier.)

Agree with you 100%

I have a Storme 4 WD which is almost 4 and a half years old. In NCR I can keep a Diesel vehicle for no more than 10 years (Thanks to the NGT order). In such a scenario, with Tata discontinuing the Storme, I will have no other option left other than the Scorpio ( unless I stretch my budget to 40 Lakh)

The Buzzard may be a monococque FWD product. However with AWD it will be a partofmy consideration set and I may buy it rationalising that as I don't use the 4WD very often an AWD will suffice. However, to me a SUV without a 4WD/AWD just does not cut the mustard. It is just a spacious MUV which is not what I would like to go in for. I would rather buy a good Sedan with my money and hire a SUV for those special occasions.

[ram87pune]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

The grime is - with BSVI - Safari Storme will go out. M&M will have Scorpio & XUV500 still available in AWD without any competition at all. There will be absolutely no AWD available from TML (HEXA is a big unknown). For the Buzzard to sell well - the AWD sure will help in better brand positioning & marketing with capability card. (And same in turns for Harrier.)

Guys I know you are having a healthy discussion but I am telling you that Harrier/Buzzard is not getting an AWD for a few years at least. So all those prospective buyers of these cars can either go with M&M duo of Scorpio and XUV500 or go for the Hexa.

And Hexa's future is not unknown for sure. It is going to continue till at least 2023. May be even after that.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

And Hexa's future is not unknown for sure. It is going to continue till at least 2023. May be even after that.

I have heard this from multiple sources now. So I assume this is true. What I dont understand is how will buzzard be positioned if Hexa is going to stay. There is no way TML can showcase buzzard as flagship in a showroom where Hexa 4x4 stands tall.

Also any news about a possible 4x4 AT for Hexa ? The reason I ask is , If that variant comes , they can push Hexa to just below trailhawk segment and position Buzzard below Hexa.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

For the Buzzard to sell well - the AWD sure will help in better brand positioning & marketing with capability card. (And same in turns for Harrier.)

With you 200%. Adding features that the competition already has is only going to bring parity. However a AWD/4WD will truly be able to exploit the capability of the "platform", differentiate it from the crowd adding aspirational value and above all associate it with the charisma of the Safari. There are many proud current and ex owners of the Safari who would consider the Harrier duo only if it has this feature as an option.

Tata needs to focus on the Tata pedigree as well to both set expectations and carry forward the legacy it has.

Guys I know you are having a healthy discussion but I am telling you that Harrier/Buzzard is not getting an AWD for a few years at least. So all those prospective buyers of these cars can either go with M&M duo of Scorpio and XUV500 or go for the Hexa.

Well I see it as Tata's loss. If they dont intend a AWD it is pointless to have that transmission tunnel ruining the comfort of the 2nd row. This is no market for half measures. The SUV "Above all" needs a AWD period, or else I see no point in all the platform and Land Rover legacy tom-tomming.