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Old 13th January 2021, 10:45   #781
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

If they are so wise that they decided not to give AWD because there are not enough customers to do off-roading with a Safari - Why have they given AWD in all Landrover \ Ranger rover models in India?
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Old 13th January 2021, 11:22   #782
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhilthegunner View Post
I personally don't understand the fascination with AWD. Would people start offroading every day if the Safari had a 4x4 version? What difference does it make if it is there? Frankly, I feel it would make sense if someone bought it and made good use of the system. At least, as opposed to using it once a year or something. I don't see why the absence of a four wheel drive system should be a deal breaker.
This question is same as why do you take insurance while traveling abroad. That is for "in case you need one".

I've personally felt a few times "If my vehicle had 4x4/AWD, it would have been better". Like
1. In Leh got stuck in ice (just a short stretch, couple of meters) and had to ask assistance from Military who happily pushed my Swift
2. In Tawang, xuv just could not pull up due to ice near front wheels (RWD would have pulled through).
3. In Kodaikanal, CITY just slid back as there was bit of slush on the slope to the resort. Had to back up and gun up the slope. As no traffic was there, no issues.
4. At my home town, it rained like hell and the front tyres were in soft mud and it kept spinning.

I think all are asking for basic AWD and not hard-core off-roader, something like an insurance (and it all depends on the price difference).

I'm ready to pay extra for AWD than anything extra for leather seats/sun-roof/connected car kind of gizmos.
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Old 13th January 2021, 11:27   #783
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
If they are so wise that they decided not to give AWD because there are not enough customers to do off-roading with a Safari - Why have they given AWD in all Landrover \ Ranger rover models in India?
What he means there aren't enough customers who are ready to pay a premium for an AWD variant at the price point (15-25L). I believe he is right. Just look at the sales numbers of 4wd Scorpio, AWD XUV500 and even the likes of Tucson, CRV, so on. They would have the sales numbers of Safari 4wd variants for the past 2 decades when it was on sale here. Price sensitivity of the customer would be different at different price points.

That said, I would still say Tata should have provided 4wd as an option on their flagship model, more as a branding exercise and not from a commercial standpoint!

Last edited by ashis89 : 13th January 2021 at 11:29.
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Old 13th January 2021, 12:02   #784
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

I think, like most of us, Tata is also waiting for the XUV500 launch, to check AWD capabilities and the pricing. By that time, Safari Gravitas will be an established car and they can add AWD and hike price safely without compromising sales.
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Old 13th January 2021, 12:23   #785
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

The all new Tata Safari cruising on road. What a road presence this SUV has got, almost dwarfed the Innova!

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Old 13th January 2021, 12:27   #786
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

I can imagine where they are coming from for AWD/4x4.

Being an owner of first batch of Hexa we had an opportunity to visit TML plant in Pune and also had an opportunity to interact with their designers in following meets arranged in major cities.

Some of the interaction from the visits:

- Sunroof: They thought there is no market for in house offering of sunroof in India. If someone wants they can go for aftermarket fitment. This was the reason the factory sunroof was not offered on Hexa.
- This is where the whole Hexa group disagreed and told that sunroof is must for the sales and the luxury and novelty factor. Result - they listened to us but after couple of years. And we can now see sun/pano roof in most their offerings.
- Automatic - They are pretty clear - automatics are the future, so we can be assured AT/DCT will be offered in all of their offerings.
- ladder on Frame vs Monocoque: Here also they are clear, monocoque is the way to go forward as its helps in crash tests, reduction of weight and helps in building modular platforms.
- 4x4/AWD: This is a business decision as they think the market is very less for it. If market demands it they will definitely offer (and for flag ship product they may bring sooner). They have experience and expertize to build 4x4 so we shouldnt lose heart.
- small car/SUV: This will be the volume segment for them, if this click we will see more features in upper segment.

some one asked (this was in another meeting), why didnt you offer ventilated seats, AT with AWD, power seats, all leather interior etc...

The reply was: This will make the car beyond 23-24 L, will you buy it and there was a silence.

So they know ours is a very price sensitive market. And if market demands it they will bring in the required feature.

Also we have to appreciate and give kudos to TML that they took the challenge and revamped their whole portfolio and are moving as per the market.

It takes guts and resolve to take up this activity.

The foreign manufacturers have either shut shop or planning to do it but they are not taking up the challenge to ramp up products for India.

So I feel all is not lost and if Safari clicks then 4x4 may also see the light.

-PK

Last edited by pk_del : 13th January 2021 at 12:34. Reason: typos
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Old 13th January 2021, 12:29   #787
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

I am slightly confused. How are they positioning this product vs the harrier? Is this being positioned as a slightly larger harrier with a safari badge?
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Old 13th January 2021, 12:50   #788
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

KIA offers worldly comforts (Even on SONET). Is it priced out of the market? Tata must be sensible enough to provide those features which are within reach, like these ones you mention
Quote:
Originally Posted by pk_del View Post
some one asked (this was in another meeting), why didnt you offer ventilated seats, power seats, all leather interior etc..
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Old 13th January 2021, 13:25   #789
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

I want to give an analogy to the debate on the need for 4x4/AWD in SUVs. Personally, 4x4/AWD is a Safety feature for me in SUVs. Just like any other safety features, such as Air Bags, ABS, Traction control etc. These features are there to save you just incase you are encountered with an unexpected situation. Would you reject air-bags for your car because less than 1% of cars would meet with an accident?

I have personally seen SUVs such as Fortuner, Endeavour etc, stuck in mud and sand because the guys bought 4x2 models and thought they can go anywhere. Most people in India buy SUVs for the image, high-road clearance and porting maximum number of passengers. So, if you as a buyer thinks you will be going places where there is a slight chance of going off the asphalted roads/unknown terrain, you should invest in a AWD SUV (for the safety of yourself and your family). I know how many times I had to make a choice of not going to a place or park way behind from a location, because of my Linea (or any 4x2 for that matter). Not everybody can have a Safari and also a Thar for different needs.

So, going by Mr. Pratap Bose's argument, is he telling customers not to venture out with Safari and stay only on tarmac roads? or he doesn't care for the customers who do want to explore?
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Old 13th January 2021, 13:27   #790
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebring View Post
KIA offers worldly comforts (Even on SONET). Is it priced out of the market? Tata must be sensible enough to provide those features which are within reach, like these ones you mention
Agree, but at that time the discussions were revolving around Hexa and may be Safari.

Also, would be interesting to see how KIA would package their 7 str offering with bigger engine and AWD.

As of now they are feature rich but have skimped on safety. Their Sonet may have class leading features but are behind on safety with respect to our own products XUV 3OO and Nexon.

For them and for market features are important, may be our manufacturers are not able to compete on features so they are carving out a niche market for themselves by providing safer cars with 4-5 star safety ratings to our gullible public. And hopefully the upcoming products from M&M and TML will carry on with safety and provide safer cars.

But definitely this is a tough business and buying decision.

Safety or Features.

-PK

Last edited by pk_del : 13th January 2021 at 13:34.
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Old 13th January 2021, 13:28   #791
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Tata Safari spied during night testing

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-fb_img_16105245438894498.jpg

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-fb_img_16105245479838086.jpg

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-fb_img_16105245531132739.jpg

The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!-fb_img_16105245749289594.jpg

Source : Rushlane
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Old 13th January 2021, 13:39   #792
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31 View Post
As much as Mr Pratap Bose fends off people with quick dismissals regarding any question about the naming, or the AWD, I will wait if and when the AWD option is added to the Safari.
Tata can sit and watch what kind of demand it garners. And then probably include a refreshed version after another eternity while M&M goes to the bank smiling like they did with the Scorpio and the previous gen XUV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
Thanks for the screen shots @Beelzebub

Seemingly Pratap Bose"s attitude is stubborn, sadistic & arrogant. He seems less willing to listen (even). Just toeing single line, ignoring & distancing Dan's IMO.
When you are trying to rebuild, you can't ignore or ridicule fans. Rather, Tata & he should try to get AWD (minimum requirement, if not 4x4 derived from LR) to cater to people who tread rough terrain.
I hope better sense prevails over marketing jingoism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo View Post
Totally agree. Something about him rubs me the wrong way. He has the "I can do no wrong" and "If you're not with me, you're against me" attitude.
A stark contrast to Mr. Ratan Tata, who's the epitome of humility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpm View Post
With all the talk around AWD/4×4, some arguing for the motion and some against it, I would like to better understand the point being made about market demand being the reason behind culling AWD/4×4.
Isn't AWD/4×4 usually offered as a Top of the Line variant? The abysmal sales/demand may be due to the steep price difference?
........AWD/4×4 may not be of utility in day to day life, but 'whatever it is, you don't need it' approach probably doesn't resonate with why that person needs it. Maybe it gives them peace of mind, maybe they have had experiences where they wished they had it
Quote:
Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31 View Post
While he (or his PR team) seems to be answering every comment on social media to keep the buzz alive till launch and keep the chatter live, and that's welcome because we get to reach out to the design boss directly, the way every person with a contrarian view is just flushed down suggests that they don't have many answers and just want to be steadfast and live in denial.

Regarding not launching the 4x4 till enough demand is generated, Id asked (see snapshots above) regarding how would they gauge market demand for a variant that doesn't exist. In reply he asked me if I've seen the sales of 4x4 over the last decade.I wanted to rebutt saying if he has seen the sales of the Safari over the last decade?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kozhissery View Post
This question is same as why do you take insurance while traveling abroad. That is for "in case you need one".

I think all are asking for basic AWD and not hard-core off-roader, something like an insurance (and it all depends on the price difference).

I'm ready to pay extra for AWD than anything extra for leather seats/sun-roof/connected car kind of gizmos.
Classic case of don't meet your heroes.
Not really a hero, but I love the way he made Tata cars desirable.

The need for AWD, 4X4 has been beautifully given by BHPians in the above posts.
In fact, a crude analogy would be Tata's present trump card. Safety.

"Yeah, our cars are 4, 5 star rated and safe"
"So what? Do you want me to crash and find it out?...Wait, when was the last time you had a crash?"
I know, it is stupid to compare safety with 4x4/AWD, still.
Most of Pratap Bose's replies feels that way.

The below dialogues may not be accurate, taken from my memory, for the love of God I can't find them. Must have been removed.

Just today morning on one of his Instagram posts a guy had commented,
"Why not 4x4 with Bof platform" (or was it regarding Hexa?)
Pratap Bose replied, "We wanted to ensure the platform was future-proof and most of the modern vehicles have done away with BoF"

I had commented on the number of vehicles still on Bof, and companies developing next gen BoFs, including Mahindra and even Hyundai-Kia.
The comment is nowhere to be seen.
The future proofing part irked me.
Partly cause 20 something years meant atleast 2-3 generations of vehicles. So they forego BoF foran autonomous BEV future from now itself?

Also partly, I would blame this future proofing for the lack of ICE development in TML. Apart from the rumoured 1.5l GDI turbo petrol and the GDI version of the existing 1.2l petrol. As if they believe they could leapfrog into BEVs.

His other replies include, "Keep up with the modern times"...."Which century are you stuck in bro"...."aah, so many experts"

Seriously, am getting vibes of the present day BMW media handling.

The comments are sure to come, since they had overnight turned the Safari brand from a Scorpio rival to an XUV500 rival.
Of course turning away from Bof, AWD is their wish. Doesn't mean dissing those who want them or trying to cling onto some platform pedigrees.

Last edited by DicKy : 13th January 2021 at 13:41.
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Old 13th January 2021, 13:40   #793
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

It's a great marketing move to badge the Gravitas as Safari, considering it'll be up against the XUV 500. But Tata's USP is safety and they still haven't sent the Harrier for testing so if Mahindra manages to test theirs immediately after launch (like with the Thar) I think Tata would need to stop with their Safer cars marketing campaign and admit only their budget cars are safe.
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Old 13th January 2021, 14:35   #794
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pk_del View Post
Agree, but at that time the discussions were revolving around Hexa and may be Safari.

Also, would be interesting to see how KIA would package their 7 str offering with bigger engine and AWD.

As of now they are feature rich but have skimped on safety. Their Sonet may have class leading features but are behind on safety with respect to our own products XUV 3OO and Nexon.
How about comparison with the Hector in that case? Or even the XUV500/XUV300 vs Harrier (2019)/Nexon? In both cases the competition was pretty well loaded, and didn't skimp on the safety features as well.
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Old 13th January 2021, 14:55   #795
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Re: The Tata Gravitas (H7X) SUV. EDIT: Branded as the Safari!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venkatesh View Post
Tata Safari spied during night testing

Attachment 2107852

Source : Rushlane
The stance look imposing and seem to have solid road presence. Is the head unit same as in Harrier? Tried to observe the second picture and couldn't conclude whether it is same as Harrier or not. It looks slightly different, but it may just the camera angle or low lighting.
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