[SSD2122]

Every new design of Safari has me wanting the the legendary / iconic 1st gen Safari back all the more. Period. Can't explain why but the clean and slated grille and that design is still worthy to be on the road.

The Safari Storme suffered due to too much sophistication and change in its looks and was done in by the cult status of the iconic 1st gen Safari. I have never been an SUV guy yet I believe that 1st gen design will still have a market if launched.

TATA should launch it again it with minimal design changes and optimum electronics on board and it will still make its mark. Sadly it will remain a dream!

The current design how-so-ever sophisticated it looks; it's more of a "Harrier" than a "Safari".

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Seeing a lot of people justifying Tata's decision not to have a 4x4/AWD version. If Mahindra went by the same logic as these people, there would be no pre-2020 Thar CRDe or new 2020 Thar CRDe. And if you see the bookings for the Thar, it is a roaring success for an impractical, not so comfortable life style 3 Door vehicle.

That demand for Thar we see now is pent-up demand, sustaining the same demand consistently once the pent-up demand was cleared off is difficult for Mahindra, may be a 5 door Thar launch can help.

[karanddd]

Originally Posted by andafunda

Lower versions of the Tata family of cars are rated 4 or 5 star.

Lower versions of Hyundai cars in India are... I will let the crash ratings speak for themselves. Ertiga was rated better than Seltos.

Hyundai reliability? Please go through the Hyundai issues thread on this forum - Harrier has niggles like touchscreen being slow, some rattle here or there. Seltos and Creta - brakes not working, engine mounts falling off, car going dead 30 mins from delivery.

Anyways, we are going off topic.

There's a reason each car gets its safety rating on the basis of its own crash test, not the test of another car from the same manufacturer. I really feel that if Tata had such confidence in the Harrier's rating, they'd have gone out of their way to send it for the crash testing and then advertise on that basis, especially since it's not selling as well as they'd like. Happy to be proven wrong.

We don't have enough data to really say, but my guess is that the number of Harriers that have niggles is far greater than the number of Cretas with more serious issues, say 1 in 50 Harriers with niggles versus 1 in 500 Cretas with brake issues.

Now of course we shouldn't let Hyundai off the hook for that, but I do understand the psychology of the customer who doesn't want rattles or a laggy touchscreen after spending 25 lakhs, especially if the feeling is that there's a solid chance of a number of little issues like that (AC water leaking etc.) cropping up frequently and regularly.

It doesn't feel "premium," which a customer shopping for a car like that is really looking for. They might have heard of brake issues, but that might not stop them because they would reason with themselves that it's a rare issue, kind of like getting a lemon, and if, as is likely, they get a car without that issue, they're getting a finished product with a touchscreen that will never lag, an AC that will never leak water etc.

For Tata to inspire that level of confidence in a buyer, they need to make sure that rattles and niggles are a thing of the past, that no-one can even think of complaining of something like touchscreen lag, as is appropriate for a premium car. And maybe sell a petrol version.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by SSD2122

Every new design of Safari has me wanting the the legendary / iconic 1st gen Safari back all the more. Period. Can't explain why but the clean and slated grille and that design is still worthy to be on the road.

Those parallel slat Safaris are still part of the President of India's guard for Republic Day if I'm not mistaken.

They are kept running and have not been replaced by the later updated Dicors or Stormes.

I have a friend who till very recently owned a mint cherry red 3 liter of the same vintage. What a beauty she was.

Now THAT was a tractor!

Cheers, Doc

[lazy]

Originally Posted by TROOPER

Only a customer who doesn't know anything about fit, finish, material quality and design will speak like that.

That's brutal, but true.
During my purchase cycle, I did TD the Scorpio, but apart from the price there's nothing to compare the two.

Originally Posted by ebonho

People comparing the Safari to a XUV will never be Safari owners.

A Safari guy steps (not climbs) into an XUV, shuts the door, looks around, opens the door, steps out, and never steps into one again.

Cheers, Doc

And that's is exactly what I did. In all honesty, I did drive the cheetah for a whole 2 km, it drives smooth, got loads of features, sunroof and all. But it is a car and that micro wavy pattern on the dashboard.....

Originally Posted by pseudo_coder

You know that most are keyboard warriors, but still think Tata should listen to them just because of their number (or loud voice)? And if they do, it will increase the price by 1-2 lakh, then won't the same people laugh at Tata for keeping the top end 4x4 at the same price as Innova Crysta, and call them suicidal?

hehe......words are cheap, typing is cheaper still.

Originally Posted by ebonho

My humble suggestion to editorial test team is to compare the car (truck?) to the outgoing Storme and not the Harrier.

Or compare it to the Harrier if you must but do compare it to the Dicor/Storme.

Because that is where the legend resides.

Cheers, Doc

+1 to that.

Originally Posted by ebonho

So like a hibernating bear coming out of his cave after a brutal winter I discovered a year late that the Storme and the Dicor had been killed by Tata Motors.

Thank godness I am not like you; as soon as I got the rumors confirmed that TML is shutting down the Storme, I went and got myself one in 2018, contrary to all the advice and suggestions from near and dear ones. Had postponed it far too long.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Tell me honestly. Is there a truck out there (regardless of price) that will satisfy a guy who has been driving a Safari or a Storme for 8+ years? In terms of looks and road presence and inner space and comfort and FEEL?

There was nothing like the Storme in the market when I got it in 2018; and none now either. Top of the road zen like peaceful feeling when you are astride him. As of now, I do not see any upgrade options in the market (not that I am looking to), none are good looking, spacious, airy, smooth, high seating, powerful, "gentlemanly", all at once. Am going to keep mine running as long as TML keeps parts coming.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Yes, but in addition to the above, I must add that the LEGEND of Safari is OUR birth-right. Those of us who have actually put our money where our mouths are. And run these beasts on our roads. Without us, there would be no LEGEND.

So definitely there will be many thousands of Safari old timers who will be grumbling at the shape and various other things here and elsewhere, but the moment the car (truck?) rolls on to our roads as a SAFARI, it belongs to us. So yes, we are very invested in this car and this thread. Regardless of whether we bring one home or keep their daddies and grand daddies in our garages running.

Cheers, Doc

You definitely have a way with words, Doc.
How I wish, TML would truly invest in this brand instead of merely capitalizing on it as they quite evidently are with the 2021 Safari.
Am perfectly okay with all monocoque, FWD stuff, but Safari core traits (mentioned above) should carry through, of which 2 are definitely lost (high seating, airy).

cheers
lazy

[BipB]

Just an amateur cut and paste job. Good old Dicor’s front grill on the new safari.

[smsrini]

Originally Posted by museycal

This might be an unpopular opinion here, but the rear side of the new Safari reminds me more of MPVs/MUVs the more I look at it now.

For reference, just check this below comparison of rear ends of Safari, Ertiga and Marazzo (L-R in that order).

Have you seen the Mercedes GL ?

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by lazy

That's brutal, but true.
During my purchase cycle, I did TD the Scorpio, but apart from the price there's nothing to compare the two.

Agreed. The Scorpio at least comes closer than the XUV does.

Thank godness I am not like you; as soon as I got the rumors confirmed that TML is shutting down the Storme, I went and got myself one in 2018, contrary to all the advice and suggestions from near and dear ones. Had postponed it far too long.

I bought my Storme in 2013. The first post launch lot. I still own it. My daily driver. Though in retrospect if I had to make the buy again, with the knowledge and experience gained over the past 8 years, I would/should have bought the last of the Dicors instead.

There was nothing like the Storme in the market when I got it in 2018; and none now either. Top of the road zen like peaceful feeling when you are astride him. As of now, I do not see any upgrade options in the market (not that I am looking to), none are good looking, spacious, airy, smooth, high seating, powerful, "gentlemanly", all at once. Am going to keep mine running as long as TML keeps parts coming.

That was my point too. Safari guys are truck guys. The shape is non negotiable. The body on chassis thing is something we do not see, so that's not really a massive point if a monocoque truck of the same shape and dimensions was made.

You definitely have a way with words, Doc.
How I wish, TML would truly invest in this brand instead of merely capitalizing on it as they quite evidently are with the 2021 Safari.
Am perfectly okay with all monocoque, FWD stuff, but Safari core traits (mentioned above) should carry through, of which 2 are definitely lost (high seating, airy).

Absolutely. Besides the light hearted levity of the shakes and shudders and sounds and tractor etc. the CORE MUST HAVES for me (would love to see if the list differes significantly for ANY Safari owner) are -

- Look and size and presence

- Inner Space (that includes space above the head and not just sideways front and back)

- Height and view (driver perch)

- A certain rustic robust practical charm and FEEL (be it the sound and feel and weight of the doors and the thud of them closing, the strength of the sheet metal patra of the bonnet and roof, the heft and height of the steering wheel, the in-cabin FEEL and SOUND of the truck when you start it and shut it down, the FEEL and SOUND/s of the truck and the wheels and suspension through your arse and back when you hit a bump or a pothole or a bad patch of road, the FEEL and shudder of the gear lever, the tractable FEEL and response of the engine when you keep her above 2000 rpm, the excitement of the rear jump seats folded up and kids and dog having a party there, or ferrying my bikes)

- I am happy with having ZERO electronics as long as the music quality kicks butt and the air con continues to chill my biones in super quick time.

- I like the idea of usable front facing seats in the 3rd row (which can fold away for boot space like an Innova) but I would not like to lose the sofa in the 2nd row ... my wife and kids have spent countless hours sleeping hours there well into the night while I have been peacefully meditating and driving the beast at 140+ without back seat chatter. Maybe third row glass that rolls down? Though obviously there must be a technical reason for why that is not possible coz none of the 7 seaters have it. But it would do a HUGE deal to the claustrophobia one feels of being boxed into a space with seats in front, and no doors to open.

- More power, 180+ bhp, and a more robust gearbox that can take that power (without the main bearings grenading as they did on mine, leading to a strip-down rebuild ... maybe pushing the first gen Storme to 180+ regularly in her early days came back to bite me on the arse) is what I would want as an only upgrade. With the safety of build and brakes and tyres and airbags of course.

Cheers, Doc

[nikhilthegunner]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Seeing a lot of people justifying Tata's decision not to have a 4x4/AWD version. If Mahindra went by the same logic as these people, there would be no pre-2020 Thar CRDe or new 2020 Thar CRDe. And if you see the bookings for the Thar, it is a roaring success for an impractical, not so comfortable life style 3 Door vehicle.

.

OFFTOPIC
I have my doubts as to whether people have bought it because it's a 4x4. I'm sure that there will be people who bought it because of that but I also feel that people bought the Thar more because there's no vehicle that looks like a Thar at the price point released. Imagine buying a Jeep Wrangler look alike at a fraction of the price of the jeep. And while I'm not pleased that Mahindra basically ripped off the Wrangler design, I won't deny that it looks amazing and genuinely looks desirable. I haven't physically seen one yet because I'm not in the country but I'm sure the design would influence me quite a bit and if I had the money (which I don't), would have seriously considered buying one even if it didn't have 4x4.

Back on topic
As mentioned by other BHPians, we have to accept that TML has made the decision not to offer AWD and is likely to stick to its guns for quite a while unless of course there is genuinely a significant demand for AWD. Now the only thing left to do is wait for the price and see what happens then. And of course, our mods' review of the car itself. Quite excited for it!

[vigneshkumar31]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Agreed. The Scorpio at least comes closer than the XUV does.

2021 is the year of the seven seaters thankfully the full size SUVs are back again.

Let's Pray!

[Predator_ONE]

Originally Posted by karanddd

There's a reason each car gets its safety rating on the basis of its own crash test, not the test of another car from the same manufacturer. I really feel that if Tata had such confidence in the Harrier's rating, they'd have gone out of their way to send it for the crash testing and then advertise on that basis, especially since it's not selling as well as they'd like. Happy to be proven wrong.

Agree. Lethargy & inaction on getting the Harrier crash tested kind of seems counterintuitive given TATA's recent push on safety, both in terms of ideals & principles but also from PR viewpoint.

Originally Posted by karanddd

We don't have enough data to really say, but my guess is that the number of Harriers that have niggles is far greater than the number of Cretas with more serious issues, say 1 in 50 Harriers with niggles versus 1 in 500 Cretas with brake issues.

I obviously don't expect you to back it up with real world statistics. But I can assure you that Hyundai's of today are no Toyotas, infact if anything, it seems they are losing on their reliability quotient with each passing year - from brakes failing & bolts shearing to engines & pulleys flying. While on the other hand, interestingly enough TATAs have come a long way from the Indica days & their products are becoming vastly more consistent, reliable & upmarket every year. Maybe a bit behind on refinement & aftersales but definitely not unreliable & 'agricultural' anymore, and not only in legacy platforms but also in innovative technologies like EVs (case in point Nexon EV vs Kona EV)

Originally Posted by karanddd

Now of course we shouldn't let Hyundai off the hook for that, but I do understand the psychology of the customer who doesn't want rattles or a laggy touchscreen after spending 25 lakhs, especially if the feeling is that there's a solid chance of a number of little issues like that (AC water leaking etc.) cropping up frequently and regularly.

One thing sir, there are no rattles in the Harrier, atleast. That thing is just not made to sound like a Govt. RTC Bus. It simply is not. Now coming to the screen, again, it is not laggy anymore (BS6). Could have been a bit faster. Could have been a bit larger. Could have been a bit sharper. But by itself, it doesn't feel too shabby or out of place. Just a personal opinion, but then again, I'll anyday prefer Harrier's screen over the Hector's display. Just a personal opinion.

Originally Posted by karanddd

It doesn't feel "premium," which a customer shopping for a car like that is really looking for.

Sorry sir! It does feel premium. I don't think anyone who's ever ridden the Harrier for any amount of time will ever say so. But then once more, in my books, high quality of materials, premium & comfortable upholstery in an airy spacious cabin with a compliant ride quality qualifies as a more premium experience than a smack in the face tablet & an air purifier.

Originally Posted by karanddd

They might have heard of brake issues, but that might not stop them because they would reason with themselves that it's a rare issue, kind of like getting a lemon, and if, as is likely, they get a car without that issue, they're getting a finished product with a touchscreen that will never lag, an AC that will never leak water etc

Originally Posted by karanddd

For Tata to inspire that level of confidence in a buyer they should.....

I don't know sir what TATA can do to inspire confidence in a customer who is okay with a car with 1 in 500 chance of brakes failing. I truly dont! I don't know, I guess I made a stupid choice in taking the one which had 1 in 50 chance of AC drain pipe bursting

Mods: OT. But as a Harrier BS6 owner myself, felt compelled to reply. The original post itself was OT & so the reply. Fell free to delete, in case.

[Napalm]

Originally Posted by Guna

Another aspect is, when you make the seats higher, even the floor needs to be raised. All this will require major changes to the roof too.

This is totally incorrect. To make the seats higher, the floor does not need to be raised. Literally every car with sliding front-seats has a step up from the floor on which the front-seat's rails are placed, but the floor itself is lower. Same can be done with the second row seats too. I have sat in a Marazzo with sliding 2nd row seats. If done similarly, this will probably help TATA in creating better leg room for the 3rd row seats too.

Originally Posted by Guna

Another thing I am curious about is his statement about all the 3 rows to be fully usable by people who fall in to 95th percentile of the (Europian) population in height (read as six footers). That is something even 5 meter SUVs like GLS or XC90 haven't been able to achieve.

Safari already has a stepped roof for the 3rd row. If they have actually done the slightly stepped(I don't mean 6 inches, may be 3 inches) and sliding 2nd row, then it might add to these claims, at least for the average sized Indian adult passengers(if not for european).

You would be surprised how comfortable(relatively) the new-gen Ertiga's 3rd row seat is for average sized Indian adult passengers. Also, TATA is known for spacious interiors. Thankfully we don't need to wait for long. Just 1 week for the media & TeamBhp drives to start.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by Napalm

Safari already has a stepped roof for the 3rd row.

I think this is an illusion. There is no real stepped roof. Or at least I could not spot one in any of the images recently. It seems the stepped roof is an illusion created by the design elements around the roof rail.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by karanddd

It doesn't feel "premium," which a customer shopping for a car like that is really looking for. .

Please go for a test drive in the harrier. Also test drive the overrated Creta after that. Harrier feels much more premium than the creta. Creta interiors is full of ultra hard plastics and we still wonder why Hyundai interiors are termed "best in class", which they definitely are not.

Not bringing Hyundai vs Tata here. But passing statements that are far from the truth doesn't help readers in this forum.

Talking of QC mishaps and niggles, agreed Tata need to improve a lot. At the same time, Hyundai has been time and again proven to sell cars that have life threatening issues that are much more harmful than ac pipe leaking.

[wheelguy]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

I think this is an illusion. There is no real stepped roof. Or at least I could not spot one in any of the images recently. It seems the stepped roof is an illusion created by the design elements around the roof rail.

+1 to that, it's an illusion I think. Seems like they have removed the stepped roof to accommodate panoramic sunroof at later stages of development, but initially they started with stepped roof.

Checkout the Gravitas shown at Auto Expo 2020: