Daewoo Nubira=Chevy Optra=Suzuki Forenza

Ram · 11th February 2006, 13:02

You're talking about the same car with different names.
How about the same name for different vehicles?

Take for example, "Sierra"
Sierra is a Spanish word meaning "saw" and a mountain range that looks like the teeth of an inverted saw. (That's where we get our word "serrated" edge)
The "Sierra Nevada", meaning "snowy range" in Spanish, is a mountain range in Andalusia, Spain. The name is also used for a snowy mountain range in eastern California.

It is

Europe's first jellybean family hatchback sedan in Europe: Ford Sierra (1982-1992).
A truck in Canada: GMC Sierra.
Spelt slightly differently, a small sedan in USA: Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera.
A short wheelbase version of our Maruti Gypsy in Australia: Suzuki Sierra.
An prototype SUV-pretender in India: Tata Sierra.
...

Can a name once used for a product in one market, reused in that same market for a differently positioned product?

In India, we have two completely different classes of vehicle being called "Honda City".
IMHO, there's a world of difference in positioning
between the Old Honda City, which was a Honda-Civic-like family sedan, and
the Fit Aria (rebadged as the new Honda City) which is a small 2-box avant garde hatchback,
(See http://www.mugen-power.com/street/04.../wp04_1024.jpg)
with an unbecoming dikky, glued on as an afterthought.

zenx · 11th February 2006, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldie_malhotra

The baleno 1.6 engine with 91 bhp does wonders only with a sub-tonne frame - add 300 odd kgs of the optra to that and it will sleep ....

a heavy car like optra definitely needs an engine of more than 100 horses to get it going ...

Maybe, maybe not.
It IS the quickest or close enough right now. Yes it'll get bogged down by the extra 300 kgs, but price it right and theres a definite huge market for it. (I have a hunch the Suzuki engine itself may be lighter and negate a little bit of the 'sheet metal' bulk). Then again, how terrible is a Baleno with 4 adults and luggage ? No first hand experience so cannot comment.

The Altura must have been heavier too by a bit, and expected to haul more luggage.

The key is pricing, maintenance, FE. The Suzuki engine gives you all that - and makes the car wayyy more practical. There's always the 1.8 for performance.
http://www.internetautoguide.com/rev...001/index.html

mclaren1885 · 11th February 2006, 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenx

Maybe, maybe not.
It IS the quickest or close enough right now. Yes it'll get bogged down by the extra 300 kgs, but price it right and theres a definite huge market for it. (I have a hunch the Suzuki engine itself may be lighter and negate a little bit of the 'sheet metal' bulk). Then again, how terrible is a Baleno with 4 adults and luggage ? No first hand experience so cannot comment.

The Altura must have been heavier too by a bit, and expected to haul more luggage.

The key is pricing, maintenance, FE. The Suzuki engine gives you all that - and makes the car wayyy more practical. There's always the 1.8 for performance.
http://www.internetautoguide.com/reviews/45-int/compact-cars/suzuki/esteem/2001/index.html

The 1.6L suzi engine may as well be a dud on the optra owing to the excess weight .. However the 1.8L option may fare better .. Baleno at 980 kgs is pretty peppy with 4 adults and luggage too .. Nothing that can make it a dud ..

However the weight difference btwn the baleno and the baleno altura is a mere 30kgs .. So dont think it would make much of a difference .. As far as i remember it ran the vary same engine as the baleno , with even the gear ratios being the same ..

goldie_malhotra · 11th February 2006, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenx

The key is pricing, maintenance, FE. The Suzuki engine gives you all that - and makes the car wayyy more practical. There's always the 1.8 for performance.

Sadly, it is not the engine which forms much of the pricing or the maintainence costs part - others like heavy body parts, suspension set-up make up for the higher pricing of the Optra, as compared to any suzuki offering.

And I am also not much sure about the FE part if a small engine has to lug a lot of weight around - even minus the 4 adults n luggage ...

Would love to see MUL/suzuki come out with a vehicle in india which is as comfy, luxurious, safe and has better ride quality than the Optra - and then provide it at the same low price, FE and maintainence costs as its other offerings, without cost-cutting at the expense of build quality ...

goldie_malhotra · 11th February 2006, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Baleno at 980 kgs is pretty peppy with 4 adults and luggage too .. Nothing that can make it a dud ..

Well - what if the Baleno has 4 adults and luggage to start out with - and then you were to fit in 2 more adults and a lot more luggage , and go for a drag race with the Optra 1.6 with just 2 adults in - that would seal the discussion for me ...

I dont intend to de-ride the Baleno engine in any form - its a great engine in its present offering, but lets not stretch its capabilites a bit too far.
Also want to point out the fact that the 1.6 Holden is no slouch either ...

Boom Shiva · 11th February 2006, 15:15

Hi Goldie, only the 1.8 is a Holden engine. The 1.6 is a Daewoo.

Zenx, if you put the Baleno engine into the Optra, it'll be seriously underpowered, and your FE will go for a toss because you'll have to keep revving to get the car going.

Here's a thought for you. Put the 104 hp Optra engine into the Baleno and see what happens.

zenx · 11th February 2006, 21:39

Of course we're starting to go around in circles now

, but my point is that not everyone is looking for the zippiest car.
* suzuki has a huge cost-efficient (to setup, run) service network with the ecomies of scale on its side
* the 1.6 Baleno with a full load is still decently powered - cannot imagine why it'll completely suck in a sightly heavier car (anyone has weight numbers for optra's vs baleno's engines?)
* If there were a stripped down Optra 1.6 - it'd pretty much be the Baleno! 5.5-6L for a 'newer' better interiored optra, even if less powerful, would rock!
* A lower entry point, lower TCO and the proven suzuki engine (definitely a longer term reliability winner over most others) make it a very attractive proposition.

Of course, this is all hypothesis. GM/Suzuki are hardly likely to do this here, so this is all mere conversation.

BUSA · 6th March 2006, 21:32

Many more cars have different names the world over.

http://images.google.co.in/imgres?im...lr%3D%26sa%3DN

Anywayz a Optra with a Baleno engine wont make any sense at all. The Baleno Engine is total plane. THe 1.6 Daewoo Etec Mill is ages ahead in terms of technology and thats the reason that Optra 1.6 weighing all of 1250kgs is no slouch.

devarshi84 · 7th March 2006, 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUSA

Many more cars have different names the world over.

http://images.google.co.in/imgres?im...lr%3D%26sa%3DN

Anywayz a Optra with a Baleno engine wont make any sense at all. The Baleno Engine is total plane. THe 1.6 Daewoo Etec Mill is ages ahead in terms of technology and thats the reason that Optra 1.6 weighing all of 1250kgs is no slouch.

The N.AMerican Suzuki is actually a Chevrolet Aveo which is also sold here. The Indian swift is not presnt at all.

bhanusrinivas · 7th March 2006, 14:36

atleast same car is sold with different names in different countries, but our WagonR is sold as OPEL AGILA and SUZUKI WAGONR side by side in Italy.

devarshi84 · 9th March 2006, 00:02

here is a chance to see how much a brand image works.

can some1 pull out sales of the same cars sold by different brands in the same country?

BUSA · 9th March 2006, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by devarshi84

The N.AMerican Suzuki is actually a Chevrolet Aveo which is also sold here. The Indian swift is not presnt at all.

Thats because the latest Swift is the Indian Swift and that article is not the latest

zoom_vroom · 3rd July 2008, 14:15

Hi Guys
I just saw the suzuki website.
Suzuki Auto

The Chevy optra is sold under Suzuki brand name too.
Its called Suzuki Forenza.
Also what surprises me is the cost at $15649 making it around 6.73 lacs INR.

And the specifcations reads as

2.0-liter, 16-valve DOHC 4-cylinder engine, 127 horsepower @ 5,600 rpm, 131 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4,200 rpm
4-wheel disc brakes, front ventilated
Advanced, dual-stage driver and weight-sensing front-passenger airbags Supplemental Restraint System (SRS)
Front seat-mounted side-impact airbags (SRS)
Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS)
Speed-sensitive, power-assisted, rack-and-pinion steering (SSPS)
6-speaker AM/FM/CD audio system with MP3/WMA™ playback and auxiliary jack
60/40 split, fold-down rear seatbacks
Height-adjustable driver’s seat with adjustable lumbar support
Chrome interior door handles
12-volt accessories outlet

Seems we are being cheated when it comes to Optra which is available at a higher price here,and that too devoid of the above specifications.

sbasak · 3rd July 2008, 17:03

GM has 20% stake in Suzuki. Suzuki WagonR = Vauxhall Agila, so Optra as Forenza is not suprising!

Suzuki also has relationshiop with Fiat. Fiat Sedici = Suzuki SX4.

vasudeva · 3rd July 2008, 17:04

This is very old news, but good that you have become aware.

11th February 2006, 13:02	#31
Ram Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Singapore, Mumbai, Nagpur Posts: 2,166 Thanked: 221 Times View My Garage	How many vehicle models we know are named "Sierra"? You're talking about the same car with different names. How about the same name for different vehicles? Take for example, "Sierra" Sierra is a Spanish word meaning "saw" and a mountain range that looks like the teeth of an inverted saw. (That's where we get our word "serrated" edge) The "Sierra Nevada", meaning "snowy range" in Spanish, is a mountain range in Andalusia, Spain. The name is also used for a snowy mountain range in eastern California. It is Europe's first jellybean family hatchback sedan in Europe: Ford Sierra (1982-1992). A truck in Canada: GMC Sierra. Spelt slightly differently, a small sedan in USA: Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera. A short wheelbase version of our Maruti Gypsy in Australia: Suzuki Sierra. An prototype SUV-pretender in India: Tata Sierra. ... Can a name once used for a product in one market, reused in that same market for a differently positioned product? In India, we have two completely different classes of vehicle being called "Honda City". IMHO, there's a world of difference in positioning between the Old Honda City, which was a Honda-Civic-like family sedan, and the Fit Aria (rebadged as the new Honda City) which is a small 2-box avant garde hatchback, (See http://www.mugen-power.com/street/04.../wp04_1024.jpg) with an unbecoming dikky, glued on as an afterthought. Last edited by Ram : 11th February 2006 at 13:05.
	() Thanks

11th February 2006, 15:15	#36
Boom Shiva BANNED Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,055 Thanked: 19 Times	Hi Goldie, only the 1.8 is a Holden engine. The 1.6 is a Daewoo. Zenx, if you put the Baleno engine into the Optra, it'll be seriously underpowered, and your FE will go for a toss because you'll have to keep revving to get the car going. Here's a thought for you. Put the 104 hp Optra engine into the Baleno and see what happens.
	() Thanks

11th February 2006, 21:39	#37
zenx Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,163 Thanked: 161 Times View My Garage	Of course we're starting to go around in circles now , but my point is that not everyone is looking for the zippiest car. * suzuki has a huge cost-efficient (to setup, run) service network with the ecomies of scale on its side * the 1.6 Baleno with a full load is still decently powered - cannot imagine why it'll completely suck in a sightly heavier car (anyone has weight numbers for optra's vs baleno's engines?) * If there were a stripped down Optra 1.6 - it'd pretty much be the Baleno! 5.5-6L for a 'newer' better interiored optra, even if less powerful, would rock! * A lower entry point, lower TCO and the proven suzuki engine (definitely a longer term reliability winner over most others) make it a very attractive proposition. Of course, this is all hypothesis. GM/Suzuki are hardly likely to do this here, so this is all mere conversation.
	() Thanks

6th March 2006, 21:32	#38
BUSA Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 5,130 Thanked: 21 Times View My Garage	Many more cars have different names the world over. http://images.google.co.in/imgres?im...lr%3D%26sa%3DN Anywayz a Optra with a Baleno engine wont make any sense at all. The Baleno Engine is total plane. THe 1.6 Daewoo Etec Mill is ages ahead in terms of technology and thats the reason that Optra 1.6 weighing all of 1250kgs is no slouch.
	() Thanks

7th March 2006, 14:36	#40
bhanusrinivas BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: hyderabad Posts: 104 Thanked: 0 Times	atleast same car is sold with different names in different countries, but our WagonR is sold as OPEL AGILA and SUZUKI WAGONR side by side in Italy.
	() Thanks

9th March 2006, 00:02	#41
devarshi84 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ahmedabad - Tor Posts: 4,024 Thanked: 212 Times View My Garage	here is a chance to see how much a brand image works. can some1 pull out sales of the same cars sold by different brands in the same country?
	() Thanks

3rd July 2008, 14:15	#43
zoom_vroom BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 262 Thanked: 52 Times	Chevy Optra is also Suzuki Forenza Hi Guys I just saw the suzuki website. Suzuki Auto The Chevy optra is sold under Suzuki brand name too. Its called Suzuki Forenza. Also what surprises me is the cost at $15649 making it around 6.73 lacs INR. And the specifcations reads as 2.0-liter, 16-valve DOHC 4-cylinder engine, 127 horsepower @ 5,600 rpm, 131 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4,200 rpm 4-wheel disc brakes, front ventilated Advanced, dual-stage driver and weight-sensing front-passenger airbags Supplemental Restraint System (SRS) Front seat-mounted side-impact airbags (SRS) Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) Speed-sensitive, power-assisted, rack-and-pinion steering (SSPS) 6-speaker AM/FM/CD audio system with MP3/WMA™ playback and auxiliary jack 60/40 split, fold-down rear seatbacks Height-adjustable driver’s seat with adjustable lumbar support Chrome interior door handles 12-volt accessories outlet Seems we are being cheated when it comes to Optra which is available at a higher price here,and that too devoid of the above specifications.
	() Thanks

3rd July 2008, 17:03	#44
sbasak BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CCU-LTN Posts: 608 Thanked: 14 Times	GM has 20% stake in Suzuki. Suzuki WagonR = Vauxhall Agila, so Optra as Forenza is not suprising! Suzuki also has relationshiop with Fiat. Fiat Sedici = Suzuki SX4.
	() Thanks

3rd July 2008, 17:04	#45
vasudeva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 2,223 Thanked: 212 Times	This is very old news, but good that you have become aware.
	() Thanks