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According to media reports, Audi will have no diesel cars on sale from April 2020. Instead, the carmaker will only offer BS-VI compliant petrol engines on all its models.
While diesel powered cars have not been completely ruled out, Audi is also planning to introduce electric and hybrid vehicles as well. The carmaker is looking to take advantage of the government's new rule that allows the import of 2,500 units annually without homologation.
It has been reported that the switch to a petrol-only portfolio was influenced by changing buying behavior of the customers. It is said that this year alone 30-35% of customers chose petrol variants over diesels.
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I hope its only temporary while development and tests continue for BSVI compliance. It would be sad to see any German car makers dropping diesels from the portfolio. Afterall, very few make higher end diesel engines as good as them...Just as a technical marvel they are amazing for any mechanical enthusiast.
Can't believe Audi is not ready with BS VI diesel engines. While the number of people picking petrol models is increasing, diesel is still the choice of fuel for a majority of luxury car buyers.
You just can't beat the economy, range and flexibility offered by advanced diesel engines with equivalent turbocharged petrols. Even here Audi has got it all confused offering puny 1.4 petrol engines in the A3 and A4. They are well and truly out of the game at the moment.
Wow, talk about lack of preparation! Actually, not just Audi, I'm hearing that the entire VW group won't have the 2.0 diesel ready in time for the BS6 deadline. They sure haven't done their homework as the government gave ample time for them to bring the engine up to speed. And let's not forget, the 2.0 TDI already meets the stringent emission norms of Europe, so its not like they don't know how to.
Audi, Skoda & VW will be majorly disadvantaged if they don't have the 2.0 diesel in April 2020. Premium car customers love their diesel automatics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoshbhat
(Post 4686842)
Can't believe Audi is not ready with BS VI diesel engines. While the number of people picking petrol models is increasing, diesel is still the choice of fuel for a majority of luxury car buyers.
You just can't beat the economy, range and flexibility offered by advanced diesel engines with equivalent turbocharged petrols. Even here Audi has got it all confused offering puny 1.4 petrol engines in the A3 and A4. They are well and truly out of the game at the moment.
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I think the gap is narrowing, with the advanced turbo petrol engines that the German big 3 have in their stable now. The 2.0 turbo direct injection petrol engines offer far more horsepower, almost equal torque, even better low rpm drivability, and are 75-80% as fuel efficient as the equivalent 2.0 diesels, especially when equipped with start/stop technology. I regularly get 9 kmpl in city on my 530i and my friend who has the 520d gets less than 12. Petrol prices are almost on par now with diesel - within 7-8% price difference per litre. It was a different story when you compared a BMW 530i with a 520D in 2009, when the 530i came with a big V6, naturally aspirated petrol engine that gave 5-6 kmpl while the diesel still delivered 12 kmpl, since the small turbocharged engine technology was already there with the diesels.
In the last 10 years, Diesel tech has stayed still, or even regressed after the emission scandals with automakers having to tone down power and torque to meet emission norms. The 520D of today is pretty much identical to the one 10 years ago in terms of engine power, torque and mileage. Whereas, petrol tech has advanced rapidly. The 530i of today is a very different animal from the 530i of 2009. The stigma and uncertainty associated with diesels is the last straw for these engines. I see a U-turn towards petrol from the luxury customer preference perspective, especially if the courts extend the 10 year ban in Delhi to other cities. Petrol more naturally lends itself to the sense of luxury, being quieter, smoother and silkier.
Well, after VW's dieselgate scandal, they've been trying to repair their image and have invested a lot into EV and hybrid tech. This could be an opportunity to introduce the e-trons and the hybrids as a cleaner alternative to diesels especially in India.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 84.monsoon
(Post 4687159)
I think the gap is narrowing, with the advanced turbo petrol engines that the German big 3 have in their stable now. The 2.0 turbo direct injection petrol engines offer far more horsepower, almost equal torque, even better low rpm drivability, and are 75-80% as fuel efficient as the equivalent 2.0 diesels, especially when equipped with start/stop technology. I regularly get 9 kmpl in city on my 530i and my friend who has the 520d gets less than 12. Petrol prices are almost on par now with diesel - within 7-8% price difference per litre. It was a different story when you compared a BMW 530i with a 520D in 2009, when the 530i came with a big V6, naturally aspirated petrol engine that gave 5-6 kmpl while the diesel still delivered 12 kmpl, since the small turbocharged engine technology was already there with the diesels.
In the last 10 years, Diesel tech has stayed still, or even regressed after the emission scandals with automakers having to tone down power and torque to meet emission norms. The 520D of today is pretty much identical to the one 10 years ago in terms of engine power, torque and mileage. Whereas, petrol tech has advanced rapidly. The 530i of today is a very different animal from the 530i of 2009. The stigma and uncertainty associated with diesels is the last straw for these engines. I see a U-turn towards petrol from the luxury customer preference perspective, especially if the courts extend the 10 year ban in Delhi to other cities. Petrol more naturally lends itself to the sense of luxury, being quieter, smoother and silkier.
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Totally agree with you. In fact, if I was in the market today, I would definitely pick a 2.0 turbo petrol against the 2.0 turbo diesel. The shift is happening but it will still take some more time as the market is still skewed in favour of diesel. They can flog their diesel engines for some more time, given the amount they've invested in developing them over the years. Going all petrol right now is a little too soon from a business point of view is what I feel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raystriker
(Post 4687164)
Well, after VW's dieselgate scandal, they've been trying to repair their image and have invested a lot into EV and hybrid tech. This could be an opportunity to introduce the e-trons and the hybrids as a cleaner alternative to diesels especially in India.
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I don't think 2020 is the time for replacing top of the line diesel engines by EVs. Audi/VAG may have the cars and E-engines ready alright. India doesn't have even a fraction of the supporting infrastructure ready for customers to be able to use those cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 84.monsoon
(Post 4687159)
75-80% as fuel efficient as the equivalent 2.0 diesels
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Normal driving, yes. The difference is stark when you drive it like an enthusiast. Redline that turbo-petrol and you'll see 5 kmpl, even 4 (I have personally seen 4 kmpl in my humble Civic). On the other hand, you will be hard-pressed to ever take a 2.0 diesel below 9 - 10 kmpl, no matter how you drive. I've never gone below 10 kmpl in my brother's remapped Jetta 2.0 TDI, but have frequently seen <5 kmpl in the Skoda 1.8 TSIs.
On my 530d, the difference between driving hard or easy is just 2 kmpl, tops. In a petrol, its more like 50%!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO
(Post 4687154)
the 2.0 TDI already meets the stringent emission norms of Europe, so its not like they don't know how to.
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They got technology, knowhow and even ready engines from Wolfsburg, but any expenditure at this point of time isn't justified. Not enough business case given the 500 odd Vento, 0 Passat and 100 Tiguan they sell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermodynamics
(Post 4687244)
They got technology, knowhow and even ready engines from Wolfsburg, but any expenditure at this point of time isn't justified. Not enough business case given the 500 odd Vento, 0 Passat and 100 Tiguan they sell.
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But can they be confident that the same numbers will be sustained purely with gasoline engines too? Or will these tumble further down...That feels like quite a gamble to me.
The 2.0 TDI is the bread and butter model of the VAG . I feel if they do not have a diesel replacement their sales are going to slide big time. Make no mistake about this, even the luxury car owners keep a tab on fuel costs and very few will opt for the 1.8 Tsi instead of the frugal TDI engines. They are also fun to drive besides being frugal.
I would even go ahead and say that the business will go to other manufacturers if they do not fix this.
Or - Is this whole a cheeky move to quickly get sales numbers on current cars till BSVI kicks in? "NO MORE DIESEL!" is sure to push those waiting on the fence to take a plunge right now to grab the cars when they are available. Might help improve short term sales right now & bring better returns for the management in appraisals!
They can always easily launch the TDI again after April-May 2020 whenever they like! Now a days I feel there is no limit to what these honchos will do to get numbers on the paper.
Folks please watch the first episode of 'Dirty Money' it is a netflix docuseries. Diesel was never BS3/4/5/6/x ready. :Frustrati In the real world diesel engines would pollute far more than stated by manufacturers or allowed by governments. No manufacturer was able to actually create a diesel engine that properly met emission norms. Be it the Volkswagen Group or any other German company or French maker or even Japanese company. They have all eventually admitted to using cheat devices on their diesel vehicles. The advantage of diesel engines, if any, still strictly remains with its end user. It is high time we gave up on this dirty noisy fuel.
Lame decision for now. If they’re going by the percentage of their current sales clinching towards petrol, that’s a wrong approach as it caters to 35% customers opting for it. What about the rest 65%? Ratio doesn’t seem to be looking balanced here.
Btw, are we sure VW group 2.0 TDI’s are meeting Europe norms? Hope they aren’t resorting to cheating againstupid:
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