Team-BHP > BHP India > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12th November 2019, 12:08   #1
BHPian
 
wheelguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: City of Destiny
Posts: 413
Thanked: 1,483 Times
Default Tata Group begins hunt for a partner for Jaguar; approaches Geely & BMW

Tatas Group begins hunt for a partner for Jaguar, approaches Geely & BMW.

Quote:
Tata Group, the owner of Jaguar Land Rover, has approached carmakers including China’s Zhejiang Geely Holding Group Co. and BMW AG as it seeks partnerships for the beleaguered British automotive business, people with knowledge of the matter said.

India’s largest conglomerate has said it’s open to finding partners for JLR to save on costs and share the burden of investing in electric vehicles. The deliberations were at an early stage and Tata could still approach other potential partners, the people said, asking not to be identified because the information is private. It wasn’t immediately clear how receptive Geely and BMW were.

“There have been no talks with Tata or JLR,” Geely said in a statement. BMW declined to comment, as did Tata.

Any tie-up with a Chinese automaker could potentially help JLR in that market, where its struggles led to a $3.9 billion writedown earlier this year. Deeper ties between the British luxury brand and BMW would build on an existing collaboration to develop engines and electric-drive technology, though the German carmaker’s former chief executive officer in August ruled out any equity investment.
Source: ET Auto
wheelguy is online now   (9) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2019, 19:02   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
Sebring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Dubai/Bengaluru
Posts: 1,246
Thanked: 2,613 Times
Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors selling minority stake in JLR

If only they had been smart about Brands they buy. Have Tatas been successful with any of their foreign acquisitions (Tetley, Corus, LR/Jag)? Look at SAIC, how they're milking MG, a non-decrepit brand, without fear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelguy View Post
Tatas Group begins hunt for a partner for Jaguar, approaches Geely & BMW.
Sebring is offline   (8) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2019, 10:56   #3
Team-BHP Support
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 8,979
Thanked: 34,439 Times
Default Re: Tata Group begins hunt for a partner for Jaguar; approaches Geely & BMW

Tata Group begins hunt for a partner for Jaguar; approaches Geely & BMW - Posts moved to a new thread.
Aditya is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2019, 11:52   #4
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Reinhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,297
Thanked: 4,604 Times
Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors selling minority stake in JLR

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelguy View Post
Tatas Group begins hunt for a partner for Jaguar, approaches Geely & BMW.
I wonder what BMW would gain by picking equity into JLR. I think that's being done just to have another name in the list when the news comes out. Seems better than simply saying we are selling out to the Chinese like everyone else. That's about it. BMW will say "NO" in 1 day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebring View Post
If only they had been smart about Brands they buy. Have Tatas been successful with any of their foreign acquisitions (Tetley, Corus, LR/Jag)? Look at SAIC, how they're milking MG, a non-decrepit brand, without fear.
Tetley is doing fine. One of their good acquisitions. I think Daewoo's truck business acquisition also helped them overall. At the same time, agreed that even M&M is better at judging their acquisition plans.

As for SIAC - we shouldn't compare with an Indian business group like Tata. SIAC is Chinese state owned. That means infinite money to do anything and hardly any regulations that can't be bent.

Last edited by Reinhard : 13th November 2019 at 11:53.
Reinhard is online now   (12) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2019, 12:07   #5
BHPian
 
padmrajravi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Kozhikode
Posts: 235
Thanked: 516 Times
Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors selling minority stake in JLR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
I wonder what BMW would gain by picking equity into JLR.

This is not about picking equity. Tata is not looking for partners to buy JLR shares. The group chairman has made it clear that auto is a core business for them and they are not looking for anyone to pick up equity. They are looking for technology partnerships. Platform sharing, maybe develop engines or EV technology together.

What confuses me is that JLR website already features an article about a tech collaboration with BMW.

https://media.jaguarlandrover.com/ne...lectrification

Last edited by padmrajravi : 13th November 2019 at 12:10.
padmrajravi is online now   (5) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2019, 12:28   #6
AZT
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Bombay
Posts: 26
Thanked: 46 Times
Default Re: Tata Group begins hunt for a partner for Jaguar; approaches Geely & BMW

Quote:
I wonder what BMW would gain by picking equity into JLR. I think that's being done just to have another name in the list when the news comes out. Seems better than simply saying we are selling out to the Chinese like everyone else. That's about it. BMW will say "NO" in 1 day.

Agree, but I think such mega deals also have some hidden components not disclosed to the public. On the face of it, BMW should say no but there may be some other aspects at play. I'm actually wondering if Tata will do a Starbucks and get Tesla to India

Quote:
This is not about picking equity. Tata is not looking for partners to buy JLR shares. The group chairman has made it clear that auto is a core business for them and they are not looking for anyone to pick up equity. They are looking for technology partnerships. Platform sharing, maybe develop engines or EV technology together.

Agree with you but does BMW really need Tata. if BMW brings their EV expertise to the table, is Tata JLR just going to share the R&D cost or do they have some tech they can share. There should be other factors at play I feel
AZT is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2019, 12:58   #7
BHPian
 
vamsi.kona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 184
Thanked: 195 Times
Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors selling minority stake in JLR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebring View Post
If only they had been smart about Brands they buy. Have Tatas been successful with any of their foreign acquisitions (Tetley, Corus, LR/Jag)? Look at SAIC, how they're milking MG, a non-decrepit brand, without fear.
LR/Jag has been the cash cow that Tata milked over the last few years. The economic slowdown in China and Brexit are the two main issues, which I believe has lead to this situation. In fact Tata has revived a loss making LR/Jag into a profitable company within a short time. Tetley is also doing fine I believe.

The issue with Corus is quite complex I believe, with Financial Crisis and the resulting lower stell prices across the globe together with Chinese Steel products flooding UK market making the operations unviable. I am not well versed with that, but read the UK govt's unwillingness to impose dumping duty/increase tariffs on Chinese stell is one of the major factors, while other nations did take measures to the effect to protect domestic steel manufacturing.
vamsi.kona is offline   (6) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2019, 19:40   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
Sebring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Dubai/Bengaluru
Posts: 1,246
Thanked: 2,613 Times
Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors selling minority stake in JLR

Recall reading on ET that Tetley has not been able to recover, especially in Europe. Anyways that's going OT. Regarding SAIC, what I meant was their launch strategy and how they milked the brand to the hilt. I'm not implying money power here at all. What stops Tata Motors from launching a entry level LR at 25 Lakhs for emerging markets? Why fear brand dilution, when by safeguarding it you tend to lose the Company? Do you get my point? Can't Nexon be your chota LR? Give it the bells and whistles, place it on the omega platform, give it 4X4 - the possibilities are endless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
Tetley is doing fine. One of their good acquisitions. I think Daewoo's truck business acquisition also helped them overall. At the same time, agreed that even M&M is better at judging their acquisition plans. As for SIAC - we shouldn't compare with an Indian business group like Tata. SIAC is Chinese state owned. That means infinite money to do anything and hardly any regulations that can't be bent.

Last edited by Sebring : 13th November 2019 at 19:50.
Sebring is offline   (3) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 13th November 2019, 21:35   #9
Senior - BHPian
 
avishar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: kolkata/bangalore,india
Posts: 2,609
Thanked: 1,539 Times
Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors selling minority stake in JLR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post

As for SIAC - we shouldn't compare with an Indian business group like Tata. SIAC is Chinese state owned. That means infinite money to do anything and hardly any regulations that can't be bent.
They might be state owned, but they have better brains in the strategy department than Tata. And as far as regulations go, they are a manufacturer in India and are subject to the same regulations as anyone else. They managed to get Indians to part with their money (all Rs 16 lakhs odd), create a brand loyalty and even get people genuinely excited about its future products. Not even Maruti can pull that off in that premium space.

Think about it, they are a Chinese company who wants to enter India by ressurrecting a dead British brand which honestly 99% of buyers in their target country has not heard about and whose last few years as a British brand (pre-resurrection) was spent selling badge-engineered and unreliable British Leyland cars. Sounds like a nightmare of a plan!

Funnily enough Tata did something like this long back, remember the disastrous Rover Indica/CityRover?

Tata clearly has a premium brand issue. It owns one of the best luxury marques+SUV companies in the world. If it thinks that using Land Rover on a Rs 15 lakh car is bad for the brand, it could have built a sub-brand. Rover? (I am not sure if they own the rights to it). Maybe resurrect Standard? Or dip into the vast pool of dead British brands. Or pick up a name from JLR history and turn it into a brand, like Defender (Something what FCA did with RAM).

Even Maruti made hitherto unthinkable jump towards being fashionable with premium buyers, but they did the clever thing of making a service-level sub-brand like Nexa.

Last edited by avishar : 13th November 2019 at 21:37.
avishar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th November 2019, 11:34   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
abhishek46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,203
Thanked: 2,462 Times
Default Re: Tata Group begins hunt for a partner for Jaguar; approaches Geely & BMW

Sorry folks, but I am missing the point here.
Doesn't jaguar have a production grade electric platform already?
Remember that I-Pace SUV, which won tons of awards this year?

Why do they want to go to BMW for, who does not have any competent production ready EV for that matter.
abhishek46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th November 2019, 12:52   #11
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Reinhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,297
Thanked: 4,604 Times
Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors selling minority stake in JLR

Yes - they have a powertrain and R&D partnership with BMW already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by padmrajravi View Post
This is not about picking equity. Tata is not looking for partners to buy JLR shares. The group chairman has made it clear that auto is a core business for them and they are not looking for anyone to pick up equity. They are looking for technology partnerships. Platform sharing, maybe develop engines or EV technology together.
If it was the case of just looking for technology partnerships, it wouldn't be a news and it would surely not be a "hunt" for a partner. That's something totally a normal part of any auto company. Including Suzuki!

So if there is any reality value to this news - I'm quite sure its for an equity partner. A shared ownership of this brand (which many see as a liability).
Reinhard is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 16th November 2019, 19:52   #12
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 117
Thanked: 277 Times
Default Re: Tata Group begins hunt for a partner for Jaguar; approaches Geely & BMW

After reading the thread title initially I thought it's some kind of a matrimonial advertisement in newspaper
But why are they doing it for only Jaguar and not Land Rover?
Storm2.0 is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 17th November 2019, 02:37   #13
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chennai
Posts: 51
Thanked: 13 Times
Default Re: Rumour: Tata Motors selling minority stake in JLR

Quote:
Originally Posted by avishar View Post
Funnily enough Tata did something like this long back, remember the disastrous Rover Indica/CityRover?
It wasn't Tata, it was rover that sold a badge engineered indiac. Tata simply supplied the car. While it didn't do well due to various issues, it did get very good reviews in the used car space, iirc.
JagMan is offline   (2) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2019, 23:45   #14
BHPian
 
wheelguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: City of Destiny
Posts: 413
Thanked: 1,483 Times
Default Re: Tata Group begins hunt for a partner for Jaguar; approaches Geely & BMW

Jaguar Land Rover chief wants alliances, not a merger.

The British luxury sedan and SUV maker is "always open" to discussions of technology alliances and component sharing with other companies, Speth said.

Full article:
Quote:
LOS ANGELES: Luxury automaker Jaguar Land Rover's chief executive told Reuters he is open to more alliances to lower the costs of developing technology, but is not looking for a full-blown corporate merger.

"We feel the pressure" from demands to slash carbon emissions and develop electric vehicles, Jaguar Land Rover chief Ralf Speth said in an interview on the sidelines of the Los Angeles auto show.

But to the question of whether the company and its parent, Tata Motors Ltd. are seeking a merger for Jaguar Land Rover, Speth said: "The answer is no. We can really survive on our own."

The British luxury sedan and SUV maker is "always open" to discussions of technology alliances and component sharing with other companies, Speth said.

Earlier this year, the maker of Jaguar sedans and Land Rover SUVs agreed with German luxury automaker BMW AG to develop electric car parts jointly.

Jaguar Land Rover currently sells an electric Jaguar I-Pace sport utility vehicle, and has said the next generation of its top-of-the line XJ sedan will be all-electric. The company has not said when it will launch the new XJ.

"There's no question in our mind that electric is the drive train of the future," Eberhardt said. "But from a customer adoption point of view it takes longer than anticipated."

Jaguar Land Rover has a product lineup, including hybrid, plug-in hybrid and battery electric vehicles, which could meet tighter European CO2 emissions limits which begin taking effect next year, but compliance will depend on the mix of vehicles customers buy, Speth said.

"In Europe, the mix (of vehicles) is encouraging, but not at the moment at the level we can say we are compliant right at the beginning," he said. "But there is time to go. We are cautiously optimistic."

A lack of public electric vehicle re-charging infrastructure remains a challenge in selling electric vehicles in the U.S. and Europe, Eberhardt and Speth said.

Jaguar Land Rover was unprofitable through the first half of its fiscal year ended Sept. 30, hit by Brexit-related production shutdowns and weaker demand in China. But Speth said the second half of the year should be better than the first.

Demand in the Chinese market is volatile, though Jaguar Land Rover sales have seen "double-digit growth" in recent months, Speth said. But that growth has been from a low volume. Speth said he receives data on the Chinese market daily.

Speth and JLR North America chief Joe Eberhardt were at the Los Angeles Auto Show for the North American launch of the Land Rover Defender, a modern reincarnation of sport utility vehicles identified with African safari adventures and British country estates.
So, finally some clarity from the horse's mouth.

Note: Felt like quoting the full article, request moderators to trim the post if it's not readable. TIA.

Source: ET Auto
wheelguy is online now   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rumour: New car brand from Jaguar-Land Rover and its Chinese partner AMG Power The International Automotive Scene 0 6th July 2018 14:22
Daimler turns down Geely's offer to buy stake. EDIT: Geely Chairman becomes largest shareholder blackwasp The International Automotive Scene 7 19th April 2018 22:00
Jaguar, Waymo partner to develop autonomous I-Pace TusharK The International Automotive Scene 0 28th March 2018 21:02
Hunt for a UV - the chase begins Yossarian SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 19 4th January 2010 13:21
The Hunt begins now...Budget between 5 to 8 lacs wanderlustindia What Car? 50 27th October 2009 11:12


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 13:13.

Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks