[pseudo_coder]

Guys, can we please stop mentioning the cars which have already been posted earlier? Triber has been posted 3-4 times now.

Also, please check and understand the thread title again. It's not about VFM cars. Please don't mention qualities like FE and cheap maintenance. In general, cars from higher segment have lower FE and higher maintenance. So excelling in these doesn't count as punching above the weight.

We need to show the virtues for which people go for the segment above.
These are - power, space, ride and handling, safety, engineering.
And NOT: High FE, cheap maintenance, compact size.

[roby_dk]

Going with the harmony of this thread,

I think Maruti Omni surely punches above its weight and it was even used for kidnapping in Bollywood movies. Apart from that it was the original van before Innova and Hexa.

The other one is Maruti Eeco, it can carry many people and has multiple seating options. I have seen more than 10 adults seated in Eeco.


Sorry for the spoiler above, the one car missed in the first post of this thread is Polo GT TSI which was later agreed by OP. Thanks to TBhp I took these two purely based on the reviews.

[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by abhi7013

Does punching above their segments imply good sales numbers? I don't think so. India has never been the market for cars like the Hexa. If you look at sales numbers then even performance cars from fiat or the jtp twins will not make it. I don't think sales figures should be brought in while evaluating performance.

Also, even a tempo traveler can do what Hexa or Ertiga does. But that's not the point. The point is how well they do it and what extra they can offer. Going by your logic a nano should be the best car as it can do what all the hatchbacks and sedans can do. But that's not the point behind this thread!

Please read in the context this was written and also take in to account of statement "Hexa can do all that Innova can do" mentioned in earlier post. W.r.to punching above their weight I have no concerns in accepting both cars belonging in this thread,and true sales don't matter here. However if it's about better product, sales is a major criteria to determine but not the only one.

[Kosfactor]

Two probable reasons for this above their weight phenomenon.

Platform sharing especially among the VW cars has resulted in a lot of heavy hitters from the Skoda side.

A half priced Audi with even more features and space, oh boy! What not to like.

Another one is a car that's sold at a segment lower than what it is sold in other countries, this obviously gives it an advantage for our specific market - I'm talking about the big Ford.

[RavenAvi]

A certain Ford EcoSport with a 1.5L Dragon's heart.

Interior space aside, this car is a jewel for petrol lovers. Anyone who has driven it or owned it will vouch for the same.

It's quick, free revving with a fantastic bottom-end and it's Power to Weight ratio of 99 BHP/ton will put a smile on your face as soon as you hit the open roads and cross 2500RPM.

In short, it is a driver's delight.

Considering that the Dragon matches bestsellers from a segment above such as the Honda City (117PS) and the Hyundai Creta (123PS) in sheer power numbers alone and yet retails for 9.99L ex-showroom in it's highest iteration, I'd say the Dragon-equipped EcoSport definitely punches above it's weight.

(My two beauties - Nexon diesel & EcoSport Dragon)

Our own official review feedback

[sidzzone]

The initial list was good. Out of those cars, my favourite would be the Seltos. Kia in the last few years has really upped its game. I have a 2018 Rio in Sydney and the quality is top notch and the warranty is unmatched (7 years unlimited KMs)

[LionHeart124]

Originally Posted by wrongturn

The only thing Mahindra had to sort out in Xylo was the front facia, or maybe just those headlights. The Mahindra Imperio and Nuvosport had a much better looking fronts, but Mahindra being Mahindra decided not to update the Xylo and let it be a sales dud just because of it's looks. Imperio isn't doing well in it's category, Nuvosport is out of production already and now Xylo would go out of production. Wonder how folks manage product development at Mahindra, it's kind of unfortunate that a very competent product was let down by it's looks, a small issue which Mahindra couldn't fix in 10 years.

Couldn't agree more. Especially the first version of Xylo back in 2009 was rated a better vehicle to the then Innova (There is a video on YouTube in case anyone wants to look it up). However, not sure as to what the design team were smoking when they came to the front facia. The 2017+ editions are far more acceptable.

Meanwhile, once you purchase the vehicle the importance tends to ever so slightly tilt towards the experience when you drive i.e. power, comfort, space, safety and last but not the least features. In this aspect Xylo has been bang on. Background - I have a family of 7 - all the 3 rows occupied, travel mostly to hilly regions - good power & ground clearance.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by abhi7013

Does punching above their segments imply good sales numbers? I don't think so. India has never been the market for cars like the Hexa. If you look at sales numbers then even performance cars from fiat or the jtp twins will not make it. I don't think sales figures should be brought in while evaluating performance.

I beg to differ. Sales do play a role. You can have a great car but if it doesn't sell then it is not relevant. We cannot call it a product with any considerable market changing capabilities whatsoever - which I feel is the gist of this thread.

Take for example many of the cars mentioned in the opening post:
1. Skoda Octavia and Superb: Both cars offer you so much more than their segment and one above, that despite after sales horror stories, enthusiasts and non enthusiasts, both have bought them in decent numbers considering teir segments.

2. Tata Hexa and Innova: Again a 20L Rs. Tata has found more buyers than anyone would have thought. In comparison the recently launched, much more flamboyant Harrier is struggling to sell. Same goes for a 25L Rs. Innova.

3. VW Polo GT twins: They were not really cheap, rather costliest in their segment. Higher after sales, snobbish VW attitude, low GC issues, DSG issues, did not stop the car from selling, even without any significant facelift whatsoever.

I hope I have made my point.

Having said that the Fiat twins do deserve a mention since they excelled in particular departments. And hence in this instance we can discount the actual sales numbers.

[abhi7013]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

2. Tata Hexa and Innova: Again a 20L Rs. Tata has found more buyers than anyone would have thought. In comparison the recently launched, much more flamboyant Harrier is struggling to sell. Same goes for a 25L Rs. Innova.

Hexa has found more buyers than anyone would have thought? That's news to me! Everywhere we see, people are claiming it to be a dud and it struggles to cross the 250 units mark. That Hexa sells more than 'anyone would have thought' is the most incorrect statement as per me.

And this very car is my case in point: sales numbers are not that relevant when judging the capabilities and performance of a car. Though it sells way less than half the XUV numbers, we know its capabilities and why it has come to this particular list.

Anyways, it depends on individuals so you giving more weight to sales numbers could be relevant as per you. But for some of us its the product as a whole and we don't give second thoughts on how the market has received it!
Sales numbers are external to the product and depends on a host of factors like competition, economy, etc. It in no way effects a product! There may be various reasons as to why a product doesn't sell. But the capabilities and in this case 'punching above its weight' is clearly observable and tangible..

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by abhi7013

Hexa has found more buyers than anyone would have thought? That's news to me! Everywhere we see, people are claiming it to be a dud and it struggles to cross the 250 units mark. That Hexa sells more than 'anyone would have thought' is the most incorrect statement as per me.

Yes but you need to consider the context behind those numbers too. Coming from a manufacturer who had nearly lost all credibility in the market thanks to a decade of poorly finished products. It replaced the Aria and I do not recall that selling in any numbers whatsoever. At the time of its launch, managing 250 people every month to put 20L on the car speaks volumes. Its not about the number per se but the whole graph right.

I do agree with you that the title can be interpreted in different ways.

[Samba]

Originally Posted by GTO

Think of it as a 70 kg boxer fighting a 90 kg one.

This thread title reminds me of the Tata Indica V2 ad from 2005!
Indica V2 - More car, per car!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEF5sptyM6o

And this was somewhat true! The car which dethroned Ambassador from the monopoly cab segment! Definitely this car came with it's own set of niggles and glitches.

But, it was cheap to buy, cheap to maintain, supremely spacious, comfortable, fuel efficient & abuse friendly.

Sorry to mention a car from the past which is no more in production, but the tag line of this car ad was too similar to this thread title!

From the cars available today, my pick will be the Freestyle 1.5 TDCI.
It's an all-rounder hatchback.
It ticks all the followings- Performance, fuel efficiency, ground-clearance, reliability.
This car can be used for regular office commute's, some fun drive on the highways and even for the long holiday drives which may include some bad roads!

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

At the time of its launch, managing 250 people every month to put 20L on the car speaks volumes. Its not about the number per se but the whole graph right.

I do agree with you that the title can be interpreted in different ways.

In fact it was not even 250 at the time of its launch. For the first year Hexa sold close to 1000 every month and some months managed to even cross 1000. Looking back, Hexa sales in the first year was better than Harrier. I still cant fathom how in the world Tata convinced 1000 people per month( Including me ) to put 20 lakh on Hexa , that too with an archaic 5 inch ICE without android auto and apple car play. They must have done someting extremely well. The landscape has changed a lot in the last one and half years. The segment is now crowded with feature rich cars.

[pseudo_coder]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

2. Tata Hexa and Innova: Again a 20L Rs. Tata has found more buyers than anyone would have thought. In comparison the recently launched, much more flamboyant Harrier is struggling to sell.

Harrier is selling at least 4 times as much as Hexa. That too without 4x4, and without an automatic.

Also, the 150 units Hexa sells every month, are not all top end (XT/XTA) models. All other models retail for much below 20 lakh on road.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by pseudo_coder

Harrier is selling at least 4 times as much as Hexa. That too without 4x4, and without an automatic.

Also, the 150 units Hexa sells every month, are not all top end (XT/XTA) models. All other models retail for much below 20 lakh on road.

Again the context. Harrier came out when the company had generated a lot of positive reviews with its other offerings. It also came out when our market was and is at its peak desirability levels for an Urban SUV and here was a mini Land Rover. Why else do you think the general sentiment is that Harrier is not doing great in the market despite selling "4 times more than Hexa"?

[pseudo_coder]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Again the context. Harrier came out when the company had generated a lot of positive reviews with its other offerings. It also came out when our market was and is at its peak desirability levels for an Urban SUV and here was a mini Land Rover. Why else do you think the general sentiment is that Harrier is not doing great in the market despite selling "4 times more than Hexa"?

I agree that Harrier is not doing great, but it isn't doing too bad either (again note the absence of petrol, automatic, awd). But Hexa is doing really bad.