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Old 3rd January 2020, 14:34   #16
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Maruti Suzuki developing new BS-VI diesel engine.

Quote:
Maruti has the option to strap the existing 1.5-litre diesel, but this older engine might not be compatible with some existing models. “It is working on the next-generation diesel that would be firing its new models hitting the market in due course
Maruti Suzuki is working on new-age diesel engines to be strapped on its compact and next-generation SUV’s in a bid to maintain its grip.

Quote:
While all the models will be on petrol by February 2020, a new diesel powermill is expected to debut in later part of the year.
It is likely that the units spied on tests are with this new engine?

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Last edited by volkman10 : 3rd January 2020 at 14:58.
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Old 3rd January 2020, 14:35   #17
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Maruti Suzuki developing new BS-VI diesel engine

Maruti Suzuki is working on new-age diesel engines to be strapped on its compact and next-generation SUV’s in a bid to maintain its grip on the India market even as it gets ready to bring electric vehicles in 2020.
Quote:
Passenger vehicle leader, Maruti Suzuki India (Maruti) will not let its dominance go off easily and is working on a set of new BS-VI compliant diesel engines to keep its market share intact, multiple sources aware of the matter informed ETAuto.

According to sources, Maruti has the option to strap the existing 1.5-litre diesel, but this older engine might not be compatible with some existing models. “It is working on the next-generation diesel that would be firing its new models hitting the market in due course,” says an industry source.
Maruti Suzuki's category-wise cumulative domestic sales:

Name:  Maruti Suzuki developing new BSVI diesel engine.png
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Source:SIAM
Quote:
Maruti Suzuki still enjoys a 50 per cent market share in the passenger vehicles segment, helped by diesel volumes that have stabilized to 20% of its cumulative sales, largely on pure diesel models like Brezza and S-Cross Suv models that are yet to have any petrol variant. While all the models will be on petrol by February 2020, a new diesel powermill is expected to debut in later part of the year.

Maruti Suzuki’s strategy to re-enter the diesel space will change the matrix of the fuel mix of the market. While diesel has come down to as low as 14 per cent in cars, which is at 2005 level, and is 33 per cent for the passenger vehicle segment including vans and SUV’s. Even for SUV that are primarily diesel there has been a 15 per cent drop in sales to a decades low of 69 per cent for FY’20.
Source and full article at:ET Auto
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Old 6th February 2020, 10:52   #18
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

And again, as of yesterday...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...w/73973636.cms

Our understanding was that the cost will be very high but looking at (some of) the competitors’ proposals, it’s competitive,” said Kenichi Ayukawa, MD, Maruti Suzuki. “So, we have to study that and decide whether to implement our diesel engine again or not.
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Old 6th February 2020, 11:14   #19
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

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Originally Posted by PearlJam View Post

Our understanding was that the cost will be very high but looking at (some of) the competitors’ proposals, it’s competitive,” said Kenichi Ayukawa, MD, Maruti Suzuki. “So, we have to study that and decide whether to implement our diesel engine again or not.
How can a company get it so wrong ? They are not a new entrant. We are talking about Suzuki here. I think there is more to it than meets the eye. I hope they bring back the diesel engine in BS VI guise. Have only heard good things about the drive-ability and refinement of the 1.5L, though I haven't driven one myself.
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Old 6th February 2020, 11:28   #20
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

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Originally Posted by PearlJam View Post
Our understanding was that the cost will be very high but looking at (some of) the competitors’ proposals, it’s competitive,” said Kenichi Ayukawa, MD, Maruti Suzuki. “So, we have to study that and decide whether to implement our diesel engine again or not.
Is the people sitting there are such stupids that they don't even know how much it will cost? Why they need to look at the competitors' pricing to understand how much it will cost extra? Did they have not done any research on how much it will cost for the BS-VI conversion?

The BS-VI dates dates were announced long time back. It is as if all their efforts during these days were utilised for making their Petrol cars BS-VI compliant and developing a frog-looking concept. Atleast, they could have used this time to develop a 5-door Jimny.

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Old 6th February 2020, 12:16   #21
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

This is one good example where you shouldn't go by headline figures, people actually believed that diesel wasn't worth it because of the market share percentages that were at an all time low. Look at the profits generated by the diesels versus the mass market tin cans they sell so many of, the stock market read it clearly and Maruti is making the right noises now.

This is basically a screw driver operation, so their capabilities are in marketing and they just introduced their top end car with a 4 speed auto in 2020. There was no way implementation of BS6 was going to cost 1.5 lakhs higher, that's twice the cost of an engine on the market segment they operate in.
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Old 6th February 2020, 12:50   #22
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
Nah, punishment? How? How can anyone prove whether they did this intentionally? Even if they did - thats a very smart strategy to make competition stumble. They only said something. Didn't ask anyone else to do anything on their action did they? Absolutely legal.
Absolutely. Also, even if it was intentional, 'misdirection' is an old tactic.

For ex. The USSR almost bankrupted the US economy during the cold war through massive investments in the F-15 program simply by saying that their crude Mig-25 'Foxbat' was a Mach 3+ air superiority fighter aircraft! In the end, thanks to a Russian pilot who defected along with a Mig-25, the world came to know that it was actually a crude aircraft which could only travel fast in a straight line (that too not for long) to intercept.
Another example would be that of the Germans finding out that the allies had installed 'inflated' tanks at Calais but that's another story.
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Old 6th February 2020, 16:53   #23
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Maruti Suzuki may revisit the diesel lanes.
Quote:
“Our understanding was that the cost will be very high but looking at (some of) the competitors’ proposals, it’s competitive,” said Kenichi Ayukawa, MD, Maruti Suzuki. “So, we have to study that and decide whether to implement our diesel engine again or not.”
Quote:
Ayukawa, however, clarified the development of diesel engines is still going on and if at all the company decides to bring in a diesel, it will be for midsized vehicles.
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Old 6th February 2020, 17:03   #24
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

That's confused strategy! By 2021 direction would be firmly electric. People may not be interested in diesel at all, except the commercial vehicle category. I think the Maruti bosses are out of sync with EV's and are finding it difficult to digest the EV strategy of the Govt. Fresh platforms to accommodate batteries and packaging of cars and SUV's would cost a pile of dough. Most of the State owned Electricity Boards are deep in debt, finding it difficult to pay salaries of their staff. How are they going to change the grid and transformers for the extra load EV's would need is anyone's guess.
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Old 6th February 2020, 17:53   #25
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

They tried to misguide the market, customers and competitors. They might get the taste of their own medicine for doing that through a falling share price. There is a high probability for the share value to stumble in Q1,Q2 of 2020 as the petrol only versions of Dzire/Brezza/S-Cross and Ertiga would sell only in fractions of their current figures.
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Old 19th February 2020, 19:39   #26
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

BS6 Maruti Suzuki Ertiga Tour M Diesel Spied On Test

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It appears that the Indo-Japanese brand may bring BSVI diesel unit for taxi segment first before offering for private customers

Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021-bs6marutiertigadiesel31068x601.jpg


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Last edited by volkman10 : 19th February 2020 at 19:41.
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Old 19th February 2020, 19:55   #27
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

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Our understanding was that the cost will be very high but looking at (some of) the competitors’ proposals, it’s competitive,” said Kenichi Ayukawa, MD, Maruti Suzuki. “So, we have to study that and decide whether to implement our diesel engine again or not.
Were the top brass inhaling bs4 diesel powered hookahs?
Is this a joke? Chief of a company saying they are not aware of the costs of conversion?

This is a yedaa bankey ya banaakey pedhaa khilanaa situation.
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Old 19th February 2020, 19:58   #28
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

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That's confused strategy! By 2021 direction would be firmly electric. People may not be interested in diesel at all, except the commercial vehicle category.
I don't think thats realistic. Just look at the kilometer long queues at toll plazas on the national highways. These aren't people going to office. Thats India going on weekend or longer holidays in own beloved cars. This is where Indians are moving in huge numbers in their own comfortable cars. For such road-trip folks, diesel is still the primary option. And petrol the 2nd one. EVs cannot do this job. They are only for office and mall hopping within urban confines. At least for some years ahead. Certainly not as soon as 2021.
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Old 19th February 2020, 20:58   #29
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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
I don't think thats realistic. Just look at the kilometer long queues at toll plazas on the national highways. These aren't people going to office. Thats India going on weekend or longer holidays in own beloved cars. This is where Indians are moving in huge numbers in their own comfortable cars. For such road-trip folks, diesel is still the primary option. And petrol the 2nd one. EVs cannot do this job. They are only for office and mall hopping within urban confines. At least for some years ahead. Certainly not as soon as 2021.

Agree! 2021 is just 10 months away and we are yet to see any concrete effort on charging infrastructure in India. So you might see mainstream car makers introducing affordable electrics, like the Nexon, but market penetration is still years away. Even in an evolved market like the US, electrics are only being bought by the elitist folks who look at Tesla as a lifestyle vehicle rather than purely from a functional point of view.

So Diesel is here to stay in India, and unfortunately manufacturers like Maruti have read this wrong. Im sure they have the money and resources to get this right in a year or two. And by then Hyundai will be laughing its way to the bank! And even worse would be the situation of VW, Skoda, Renault, who have by and large declared that there would be no diesels. Their loss would be the gain for Tata, Mahindra and even Kia.
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Old 19th February 2020, 23:35   #30
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Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

As an owner of a 1.5D Ciaz, I can vouch for its refinement and fuel efficiency. I was quite sure that Maruti would not in their wildest dream abandon this gem of a engine after working on it for so long and eventually getting it right. And, this is only the first iteration of the 1.5D, I am sure Maruti can eke out more power from this 4 pot motor, they perfected the 1.3 MJD in every iteration that came out later.

So, I am only waiting for Maruti to announce the 1.5D in BS6 guise, why would they spend 1500 crore on R&D in developing a new Diesel. And, being the market leader and with close connections to the government, I am quite sure they weren't caught off guard. They knew about the BS6 move but didn't expect it to come so early and as a result didn't get enough time to convert the new engine from BS4 to BS6.
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