Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st May 2020, 15:42   #46
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,067
Thanked: 3,492 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

The second news about Maruti in the recent days about their stupidity. First one is their uncertainty in launching Jimny here. Now their uncertainty (rather, inability) to make their Diesel engine BS-VI compliant.

Now, since they don't sell Diesel, they will claim that 100% buyers are for Petrol models and Diesel demand is 0!

All is fine, but I am getting most irritated by the reasons they are citing for their stupidity (huge cost for BS-VI diesels when rivals are offering it at just 10 - 30 K price difference, low demand for diesels when Seltos is selling 50% diesels, low demand for 3-door cars when decade old Gypsy and Thar were selling around 500 units each and when countries like Pakistan gets the Jimny)! So, it is not the Suzuki who has to be blamed, but the Maruti morons, IMO.

Last edited by romeomidhun : 21st May 2020 at 16:04.
romeomidhun is offline   (6) Thanks
Old 21st May 2020, 17:06   #47
BHPian
 
bimal_67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Delhi
Posts: 29
Thanked: 164 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Look at it from a customers point of view. Being a Maruti loyalist all my life, I was going to shift to another brand just because of Maruti's lack of diesels.
Maruti will definitely see a mass exodus of lot of its customers if they don't get a diesel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
This stage has already pretty much been reached.
I was very happy with the Swift DZire ZDi which I had purchased in 2010. Excellent engine, good FE and overall a decent car for long trips. Due to the 10 year limitation in NCR for diesel vehicles, I was forced to change the vehicle. Due to the strong loyalty to Maruti, I desperately waited for them to introduce a BS6 diesel and they disappointed. On top of that, they completely withdrew from the diesel segment thereby bringing in an element of doubt on supportability shattering any little chance of me purchasing a Maruti BS4 diesel.
Finally shifted to Creta and been super satisfied with that shift. I am sure, I am not alone in this (which I consider as a big let down by Maruti).

The sales figures will surely reflect the same.
bimal_67 is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 21st May 2020, 18:07   #48
Senior - BHPian
 
CARDEEP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NCR
Posts: 3,121
Thanked: 2,258 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

The killing of diesel dream, in my opinion, is actually a boardroom decision/ scheme to avoid huge investments & keep the valuation higher in view of impending Toyota acquisition. We need to understand that it is Maruti-Suzuki led Indian arm which is the Jewel in Suzuki's crown & keeping a tab on it's financials & cash-flows is essential to get the maximum from Toyota.

Toyota too has indicated unwillingness to bet on dirty fuel in long run. And with the petroleum fuel reserves getting depleted fast, time may be running out on investing in R&D on these fuels.

At this stage it's better they avoid wasting money on unwarranted activities & instead concentrate efforts to fend off competition & keep their market share intact.
CARDEEP is offline  
Old 21st May 2020, 18:29   #49
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Delhi
Posts: 401
Thanked: 54 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Although not a Fan of Maruti, post the Esteem-era, but if they can bring the true Vitara and get access to the Fiat 2.0 MJD i would be tempted to consider it.

Fiat MJD lineage is a legacy apart both in terms of longevity and reliability and Maruti needs to get a car suitable to plonk the super powered 2.0 Diesel, that can be a win-win equation again.
namit is offline  
Old 21st May 2020, 19:17   #50
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Reinhard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Pune
Posts: 4,177
Thanked: 13,597 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
Toyota too has indicated unwillingness to bet on dirty fuel in long run. And with the petroleum fuel reserves getting depleted fast, time may be running out on investing in R&D on these fuels.

At this stage it's better they avoid wasting money on unwarranted activities & instead concentrate efforts to fend off competition & keep their market share intact.
I agree with your points. Just a few of thoughts on top of that -
  1. There is no clean fuel for now as long as solar/wind energy is not harnessed and put into EVs. All fossil fuels are dirty. Period. There is ample technology readily available to make diesel equally or even cleaner than gasoline. Just that us greedy, criminal humans picked money over it.
  2. Suzuki doesn't really need to invent anything. BSVI compliance is no rocket science. Car makers have been making EuroV / EuroVI compliant diesel engines in huge volumes since a long time now.
  3. Investment is considered a "waste" only if there are no returns in it. Maruti is being termed stupid because they thought small investment in diesel engines won't have enough returns. If anyone is assured of returns on investment in India - its MSIL.
  4. MSIL was sleeping. It then tried to bluff about nobody buying diesel cars to somehow impress other car makers. Nobody followed & MSIL is just trying to somehow save face.
Reinhard is offline   (8) Thanks
Old 21st May 2020, 19:40   #51
Distinguished - BHPian
 
audioholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BengaLuru
Posts: 4,590
Thanked: 12,024 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Quote:
Originally Posted by CARDEEP View Post
At this stage it's better they avoid wasting money on unwarranted activities & instead concentrate efforts to fend off competition & keep their market share intact.
What are their efforts to fend off competition? Currently, the only territory they dont have strong competition is the Ertiga MPV and entry level cars until the Celerio. The rest of the segments like the hatchback, compact sedan, compact SUV, C2 segment are all getting hot with the competition. If the entry level buyers prefer Maruti for reasons other than powertrain alone, the Ertiga buyers practically didnt have an option that would match the MJD engines reliability, practicality of the car and its hassle free long term ownership. But in the rest of the segments, the competition is loading up technology, a lot of engine and transmission options and more safety features too. These are the segments where Maruti should focus on. The swift is a legendary name. However, Swift Diesel is equally legendary too. The Ciaz is an excellent car but now lacks good powertrain options. We are yet to see the response to Brezza petrol when the Hyundai showroom has a diesel and GDI petrol engine option for all its cars, along with a good choice of transmissions. Hence, the venue sales might pick up in the longrun. If the next gen i20 is around the corner, the Swift and the Baleno can only survive on the brand name, its reputation rather than as a product. This is the concern for the longrun.

Hence, if Maruti really needs to concentrate their resources on the right places, it is in the field of powertrain, safety and also create a good amount of variants for customers. If a new entrant like Kia can flood the customer with a full bag of variants for Seltos, what keeps Maruti away from offering a good selection of powertrain as well as equipment? Hence, getting back my line of discussion in alignment to this thread, no-diesel is not the answer, at least for the next five years until they can bring up a solid hybrid or electric portfolio with Toyota. Even if they are working hard to do this in the immediate future, customers wont get used to hybrids so soon. It will take some time for market acceptance, by which the competition could have taken a good chunk of market share from Maruti. BS6 did not necessarily mean customers will stop buying diesel vehicles. It is just because you dont offer a diesel, customers dont have a choice. I am not sure if the majority of buyers will straightaway refuse a diesel engine in todays market, especially when they are still being offered at a competitive price, unlike the false claims of the MSIL management. BS6 Diesels get expensive when the engine requires both SCR and DPF. When there is only DPF used in the smaller engines, the price hike is on the lesser side.

Last edited by audioholic : 21st May 2020 at 19:44.
audioholic is offline   (10) Thanks
Old 21st May 2020, 20:17   #52
Senior - BHPian
 
Bibendum90949's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,030
Thanked: 3,915 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
MSIL product decisions should be taken as a reflection of what they feel about us - the consumers. MSIL still thinks that we aren't matured enough to choose based on technical specifications rather than colour shades, brand logos & price to purchase.
You hit the nail on the head here. But you missed out one thing - their legendary graphical stickers and special editions.

Is maruti going the Nokia way. Their reluctance to embrace newer technologies and sitting on their laurels( their in house Os Symbian) had spelt doomsday for them. In 2007, half of the smartphones sold in the world were Nokia's but in the next 6 years their market share plummeted to just 10% and today they're confined to just selling feature phones and lost it all forever. The arrogance among their top level didn't help matters. They had started to collapse from within even before Google, Apple and Samsung started to make inroads. I was a Nokia user right from Nokia 5110 till Nokia C7.

On a similar parallel, today Maruti too is enjoying a 50% + market share and seems to be sitting on past glory. Their reluctance to acknowledge Indian car buyers is well documented. If they continue in this fashion, I won't be surprised if they are reduced to selling only the entry level hatches and tin cans few years down the line. Kia and Hyundai have started to breath down their neck and Maruti can hear it too.

In a way the extended lockdown and downcast economy is a blessing in disguise for Maruti. It has made them to buy some more time to repair their shortcoming of no BS6 oil burner.
Bibendum90949 is offline   (7) Thanks
Old 22nd May 2020, 09:33   #53
BHPian
 
DriveOnceMore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pune
Posts: 480
Thanked: 1,118 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

I don't know if someone had expresses similar thoughts earlier, but Honestly MSIL is simply bluffing here.
Their product portfolio itself is not the one which can be sold ONLY with petrol engines.
Two SUVs, one people mover, one executive sedan all of which demand a diesel engine however costly it may be than their gasoline counterpart.
Competition is offering their cars from same segment with oil burners, which is good enough to prove the market demand.
Is it like Marketing team at MSIL is the ONLY wisest and rest are dumb?

IMHO, they will keep on bluffing for 6-8 months more that they won't launch diesel engine again, and then when they are ready they'll make a U turn.
They may even fire some top level management guy by blaming this whole U-turn stuff on.
DriveOnceMore is offline   (7) Thanks
Old 2nd June 2020, 17:16   #54
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: -
Posts: 761
Thanked: 710 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

I sincerely feel that Maruti has lost the plot and of they do not put thier act together soon, it might just be the run up to thier Doomsday. It is actually a golden opportunity for Kia + Hyundai duo to hit the iron when it's hot.

Tata and Mahindra have really shown what thier R&D is capable of. I expected Maruti to have done that, given their sheer size and market presence in India.


On one side, I am happy to see Maruti lose the game as that would mean people can see beyond tin cans, at the same time makes me feel bad for a company which put the nation on wheels and was / is aspirations of many Indians.
ObsessedByFIAT is offline   (16) Thanks
Old 2nd June 2020, 18:59   #55
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,067
Thanked: 3,492 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsessedByFIAT View Post
It is actually a golden opportunity for Kia + Hyundai duo to hit the iron when it's hot.
...
On one side, I am happy to see Maruti lose the game as that would mean people can see beyond tin cans...
When you predict the doomsday for Maruti and bright future for Hyundai, just keep in mind that Hyundai is not much better in terms of safety compared to Maruti. Check the safety ratings of Santro, i10 etc, and why Hyundai stopped exporting i20 to Australia.
romeomidhun is offline   (14) Thanks
Old 2nd June 2020, 19:10   #56
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: -
Posts: 761
Thanked: 710 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
When you predict the doomsday for Maruti and bright future for Hyundai, just keep in mind that Hyundai is not much better in terms of safety compared to Maruti. Check the safety ratings of Santro, i10 etc, and why Hyundai stopped exporting i20 to Australia.
Sorry for digressing from this thread's topic.

First off, I am no one to predict anyone's future! Heck I don't know mine, how can I predict it for someone else!?

No two ways about what you mentioned above! Yet, I hope you agree that Hyundai makes better cars as compared to Maruti. Not all of thier offerings have a poor rating. Except for maybe Tata, I don't see any other car manufacturer in India offering supposedly safe entry level cars. But that does not mean Tata can be considered a direct competition to Maruti atleast in the foreseeable future for this reason alone.

I rest my case, with reminding you of Nokia story. If one does not move with the trend in market, they stand to loose a lot.
ObsessedByFIAT is offline   (9) Thanks
Old 3rd June 2020, 10:50   #57
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bangalore,Coorg
Posts: 1,073
Thanked: 716 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

I sincerely hope Maruti stay away from diesel engines. Other than torque in those engines, I have never understood their appeal in a road car. Yes, off road vehicles need torque and diesel works there, but what is the value of diesel in a road car where you can't really use the torque and the lower acceleration isn't a worthwhile trade-off.
pganapathy is offline  
Old 3rd June 2020, 11:10   #58
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Pune
Posts: 650
Thanked: 5,167 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Expecting great things from a cheap company? Maruti has never been about caring for customers, with their poor crash worthy cars. They will stoop to any levels to sell their cars. They may even come up with arguments like they don’t provide airbags because it will make people drive faster.
The Rationalist is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 3rd June 2020, 11:53   #59
Senior - BHPian
 
avira_tk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,129
Thanked: 1,962 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Quote:
Originally Posted by pganapathy View Post
I sincerely hope Maruti stay away from diesel engines. Other than torque in those engines, I have never understood their appeal in a road car. Yes, off road vehicles need torque and diesel works there, but what is the value of diesel in a road car where you can't really use the torque and the lower acceleration isn't a worthwhile trade-off.
Terrific mileage and low running costs, in any modern car safety norms add weight and current legislation means small petrol engines simply guzzle fuel when compared to their diesel counterparts. Not everyone needs a diesel, but the ones who do long drives certainly won't go for petrol. The old maintenance story also doesn't hold true anymore, turbo petrols need as much if not more.

Maruti made more money on diesel and they messed up big time, the Brezza and S Cross, were launched only in diesel. The sales guy for Nexa told me during launch that customers were simply not interested in petrol, that may have changed but not entirely the other way.
avira_tk is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 3rd June 2020, 15:51   #60
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Bangalore,Coorg
Posts: 1,073
Thanked: 716 Times
Default Re: Maruti may do a U-turn on plan to ditch diesel, diesel re-entry likely in 2021

Quote:
Originally Posted by avira_tk View Post
Terrific mileage and low running costs, in any modern car safety norms add weight and current legislation means small petrol engines simply guzzle fuel when compared to their diesel counterparts. Not have changed but not entirely the other way.
Low running cost is an India-specific phenomenon because diesel is subsidized, leading to a price differential. Most markets globally, petrol and diesel are fairly similar in price. Yes, diesel has a slightly higher calorific value and produces high torque. Driven sanely and at highway speeds, the mileage is slightly better. However, if petrol and diesel were priced the same, very few people would opt for diesel in my view. Goa is an example where the pricing is the same and petrol cars outsell diesel cars.
pganapathy is offline  
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks