[SkodaFan0]

Originally Posted by mathranik

- Porsches are designed around the driven and not the passengers, which usually means that the creature comforts that are associated with a typical 60L+ car are at times missing in them.

In the used car Market, theres a Porsche Cayenne S 4.8 NA 2008 registered done 45000km. Could you please give me a ballpark on the annual maintenance costs ?
Its a 12 Yr old car, but would it be worth taking a chance on it, if it is in good shape? Any known gremlins?

TIA

[The Rainmaker]

Kindly excuse me for reviving an old thread but being a Porsche owner, couldn't hold myself back. There are a few things to consider. I'll list them category wise & point wise for everyone based on my first hand experience:

Vehicle Price::

1. Porsche vehicles are expensive in some cases as compared to the competitors, now even more so due to the increased import duties (Thanks to our Government ).

2. The ergonomics, build quality and finish is still unparalleled in it's price range, even when compared to the likes of BMW, Mercedes, Audi etc. (Trust me, I've owned or driven most of those and had them long enough to evaluate them over a long term).

3. Being a purist, I seriously wish they keep it a CBU business model only. CKD will bring down the quality like anything. I was fortunate enough to experience the German (BMW, Merc, etc.) CBU and then the CKD or locally manufactured models as well. Trust me, the differences in build quality are SUBSTANTIAL while the price difference is MARGINAL. You'll often see cut corners in hidden areas. I noticed the clamps and dampening materials used in CKD vehicles were of inferior quality, some assembled panels had play or uneven gaps that shouldn't be that way and that's just the tip of the iceberg, there are way more compromises the moment you start servicing your own cars and tearing things down.

4. An in-house production is what Porsche takes pride in and that's exactly the reason why they still are respected in the enthusiast community. Country of Origin has a big role to play when it comes to quality.

5. Is the price premium justified over it's counterparts? Maybe or maybe not. That's an individual opinion and depends on one's budget. For a purist, it very well is. For someone just wanting to own a Porsche, he might be ok with compromises as well. But if only our government policies were enthusiast friendly, we'd be able to buy the latest gen Cayenne for around 55 lakh and a 911 Carrera for around 80 lakh instead of 1.30 crore and 1.70 crore respectively and that wouldn't seem so out of budget. Food for thought...


Service Costs:

1. The parts prices are at par with their German counterparts in most of the cases or expensive depending on what you're getting replaced/serviced. Some are even proprietary and made exclusively for Porsche and there's no interchangeability even with their own models.

2. In terms of regular servicing (Engine oil change, brake fluid change etc.), it is comparable to other brands but labor rates can be slightly higher in some cases.

3. If you're looking at specialized repairs, where there's a damage and the whole part or panel has to be replaced, yes it's gonna get real expensive but then you've got insurance to cover it fully or partially for you .

TLDR:

Porsche has an image to carry forward and they're more into the Performance luxury segment than just Luxury, although in the last decade or so they did come out with Panamera, Cayenne, and now Macan but their roots have always been in Racing, Motorsports and Competitive Championships. Having experienced most of these vehicles personally, I would say if they have something special to offer, they might as well charge a justified premium for it but within reason, of course

[316kmph]

Porsche’s are priced competitively for the unoptioned versions, given that they are CBUs compared to JLR, Lexus and the likes. However, unlike elsewhere in the world, the options are not bundled into reasonably (relatively speaking!) priced packages and one is forced to individually pick ridiculously priced options. IIRC they charge 10-12 lakh for the top seat (sports, ventilated 18 way power), or 3.5 lakh for 360 degree camera!! Once you keep ticking the desirable option check boxes, it’s so easy to add 30, 40, even 50 lakh of options and that makes them overpriced!

[drjaygoyal]

I have been eyeing a Cayenne Turbo for 2 years now.

Still don’t have the heart to shell out 2.2 cr for a car. Most of my friends and family call me “out of my mind” when I talk to them about the car due to its price. And that too without customisations and added options.
One common question is “in Mumbai where will you drive such a car ? “

Some day maybe. The heart is there. The money will come eventually.

[Neelavi]

Originally Posted by drjaygoyal

I have been eyeing a Cayenne Turbo for 2 years now.

Still don’t have the heart to shell out 2.2 cr for a car. Most of my friends and family call me “out of my mind” when I talk to them about the car due to its price. And that too without customisations and added options.
One common question is “in Mumbai where will you drive such a car ? “

Some day maybe. The heart is there. The money will come eventually.

Similar situation though the roads in Hyderabad are a bit better. Lot of people can now afford to buy a 2 Cr car if it is only about availability of funds since there is no dearth of buyers for real estate costing many times over. Even buying a second or third home is still seen as an investment while a car for obvious reasons is seen as frivolous and wasteful expense. Just wondering when can one truly afford (asset/income levels) such a car without being unwise financially?

[karanddd]

There's no place in India where you can really drive a Porsche hard. Even the nicest curvy roads have tons of small traffic and aren't friendly towards driving fast. Having roads like in the Alps or in California play a big role in deciding to get a Porsche, because you know where you'll drive it, how good the handling and steering will feel. What use are those things in India? Sure Porsche SUVs can make some sense (even though they are also meant to be driven hard, and are less luxe seeming than rival brands), but not the Cayman or 911.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by Neelavi

Just wondering when can one truly afford (asset/income levels) such a car without being unwise financially?

When you no longer can precisely tell how much your net worth is and have to depend on your CA to pull out that figure for you - and you can't be bothered to look at the last eight digits of that figure.

Originally Posted by karanddd

There's no place in India where you can really drive a Porsche hard. Even the nicest curvy roads have tons of small traffic and aren't friendly towards driving fast. Having roads like in the Alps or in California play a big role in deciding to get a Porsche, because you know where you'll drive it, how good the handling and steering will feel. What use are those things in India? Sure Porsche SUVs can make some sense (even though they are also meant to be driven hard, and are less luxe seeming than rival brands), but not the Cayman or 911.

India is a beautiful country to drive all sorts of cars, across amazing landscapes. Maybe the extremely mountainous terrain is an exception which may require rugged high GC AWD cars. I agree, it won't be a smooth ride like US/EU but we don't have the draconian law enforcement breathing down your neck all the time. IMO, the problem is not the road infrastructure but most Indian buyers who can afford these cars have no time/patience/youth-power to do road trips. Bangalore - Goa holiday by road in comfort needs 2+2 days of being on the road - that's a lot of free time to spare.

[karanddd]

Originally Posted by androdev

India is a beautiful country to drive all sorts of cars, across amazing landscapes. Maybe the extremely mountainous terrain is an exception which may require rugged high GC AWD cars. I agree, it won't be a smooth ride like US/EU but we don't have the draconian law enforcement breathing down your neck all the time. IMO, the problem is not the road infrastructure but most Indian buyers who can afford these cars have no time/patience/youth-power to do road trips. Bangalore - Goa holiday by road in comfort needs 2+2 days of being on the road - that's a lot of free time to spare.

You do you but I've seen too many dashcam videos of people hitting cyclists, cows, vendors and their carts, slow-moving two wheelers, pedestrians, dogs etc. to want to drive quickly. And there's plenty of law enforcement in places where there may actually be a chance to speed. I am happy to be proven wrong as I would also enjoy finding beautiful, curvy roads that encourage and support quick driving and riding, but I have never seen one, at least not anything that compares to roads abroad. You can see many dashcam, pov videos of people driving or motorcycling hard on curvy roads abroad, but I have yet to see an Indian one. The motorcyclists who upload "thrilling" videos in India are all going 200kmph+ on the Yamuna expressway.

Edit: If you have seen such a POV video, please do share.

I am thinking something like these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOZOqbK86t0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBfd7kxmsAI

These are dime a dozen in the US. Anywhere hilly has them. There's almost never much other traffic, and certainly no at-risk road users like pedestrians or animals.

I searched scenic curvy roads in India on Youtube and this is what I get:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EcVAzbv6Og&t=273s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EcVAzbv6Og&t=273s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QScQqL96nLs

In each of them the roads are very narrow two-lanes. You can see that the driver often has to honk before any curve because there may be someone around the corner driving in the opposite lane. There are many places with debris on the road. There are a lot of people standing on the road next to their cars or people walking,. The few straights you see have speed breakers. The guys in the Polo and the Kushaq don't like to have enough room to go full throttle on any stretch. Sure it could be fun to drive a Porsche here, but we cannot pretend as if the car can really pushed on roads like this.

[d_payne]

I am fully in agreement with @karanddd, all the points he makes are valid and my source is simply 15+ years of driving the length and breadth of this country. I started with a good old Cedia back in the day, upgraded to an Accord, C Class, Mini JCW, and now an S5. Sadly though my learning as I turn 40 is that the road matters far far more than the car for a good drive. We just don't have any decent stretch of road devoid of all the traffic that Karan has mentioned, it's not other vehicles but pedestrians, cyclists, and animals that are always a turn away from you. And if that's not bad enough, the road quality is utter trash.

Driving a performance car in an Indian city is an exercise in patience. I've had my fill of great drives internationally (including the Col De Turini and the canyons), and none of the so called great roads to drive in the world are even present here. The best roads to drive our cars hard (not necessarily fast) and have fun on are the highways and expressways which are sterile commuter roads by design.

The closest to a properly great road to drive in India are all hidden away in the high mountain passes, and even those are filled with trucker traffic today - I was stuck in a jam on baralacha la last year for the first time!

My opinion of my country's roads is not a negative one, it's just a pragmatic view. We are a brilliant country to travel around in, but to drive for the pure sake of driving is not something India is particularly good at. FWIW, pure sake of driving = reaching the limit in a few gears, hugging a few curves, maybe even fancying a proper hairpin turn, and just having fun driving irrespective of the landscape.

There's a definite difference between going for a drive, and driving to a place. We can do a lot of the latter here, very little of the former.

[androdev]

Originally Posted by d_payne

There's a definite difference between going for a drive, and driving to a place. We can do a lot of the latter here, very little of the former.

I agree. Urban roads are a disaster. One needs to spend at least 1hr of sh*** roads and traffic just to get out of the city. The really good stretches open up after 2 hrs of driving. This is not worth the trouble if you just want to go for a spirited drive for a couple of hours on a Sunday morning.

I don't have POV videos but I can think of many routes in the south where one can enjoy a good drive in a sports car (obviously not a Sunday brunch drive but can be part of a nice holiday trip).

1. The roads before entering western ghats from the eastern side. Amazing greenery with gentle sweeping curves. Many fantastic roads. (kushalnagar to Bekal, Shimoga to Honnavar, etc.)
2. Coffee estates of Coorg region
3. Lot of rural Tamil Nadu roads. Quality of TN roads is fantastic. Coast line, Dhanushkodi, Pamban bridge, etc. offer great roads.
4. Hampi interiors during paddy season with amazing backdrop of boulders.
5. Kerala backwaters, tea estates, etc. but KL traffic density is too high and very unsafe bus drivers.

The problem is neither with the roads nor destinations. Most people who can afford these cars in India tend to be very busy making money and driving is not their #1 priority. In general, as a society, we are expected to serve the family and not pursue selfish hobbies. Do not underestimate this aspect. In the US, you will find Ferrari and other exotic owners being active on internet car forums, doing DIYs and in general pursuing driving as a serious hobby like the modded Polo owners in our country. They are everyday people doing everyday things. The demographic in India is very different. Even if they buy Urus, they are not going to do road trips.

I am neither suggesting we have roads as good as the developed countries nor it's easy to own these cars. I am just saying, if you have the money and time, India has roads and destinations fabulous enough to justify a purchase.

[shankar.balan]

I love the Porsche brand. I want one. One may not be able to afford one brand new but there is a chance to buy one used. But considerations of practicality dictate otherwise. I 100% resonate with Androdevs post.
Our urban roads are absolutely bad. Our traffic and the impediments on the road are incredibly horrid. To get away and enjoy a vehicle like this, one has to go to a track. And no track in India has those amazing hill sections to enjoy. The open road so to say is there. We di have some beautiful driving roads. But to reach them and enjoy a few hours on them, one will need to transport ones Porsche by truck. Or suffer the pain of the zillion obstacles while on the road getting to those destinations.

There is of course the very real paucity of time as well. Not many of us as masters of their own time.

I don't even get to enjoy my Mini Cooper as much as I should. I ve had it 3.5 years and have managed only 27000kms of driving in it. And much of these have been ‘forced drives’ just to get the chance to take that car out and hear it and play with it. So why bother with buying a Porsche.

Maybe the sensible thing to do is to rent and enjoy all these cars when travelling abroad.

[d_payne]

Originally Posted by androdev

I agree. Urban roads are a disaster. One needs to spend at least 1hr of sh*** roads and traffic just to get out of the city. The really good stretches open up after 2 hrs of driving. This is not worth the trouble if you just want to go for a spirited drive for a couple of hours on a Sunday morning.


Attachment 2442670

Thank you, and sorry for derailing the conversation from Porsche.

What you said regarding great roads is entirely true and makes me wonder - is it time to have a "great roads to drive in" thread? A place to compile not just road definitions but also a small google maps itinerary of how to get there etc.

[Carmine_pepper]

Totally agree with androdev. There is also a question of timing and luck. some times due to your timing you find a great ghat section totally empty and all for you !! in the list of great roads i must say MP seems to be most underrated in India. The road quality has gone up phenomenally worth near zero speed gun wielding cops. there will be a few teams checking papers many be but never encountered a speed challan team in their expressways..

guess have to do those kind of trip a hundred time before justifying the the "porsche tax" already paid.

[itwasntme]

Agree. Proper fenced segregated 2 lane carriageways in each direction with lovely sweeping curves, a clear line of sight and disciplined slower traffic are essential to the high speed drive experience.

While a BMW 330i and a Porsche are miles apart, take a look at this almost orgasmic video on the Genting Hill climb.

https://youtu.be/egVsUZNJM0s

I guess the Karjat (?) Ghat one way roads are similar now, and the Chandigarh Shimla route is great, but I wsh we had such roads in India.

Tirupati Tirumala is lovely too but mostly too narrow and there is every chance you may meet Lord Balaaji (earlier than planned) if you overspeed!

[lionheart_mm]

Cars from German trio are already pretty expensive. Earlier they kind of made up for it with features, but now the likes of KIA and all have started to offer more kit for the money.

Porsche is expensive all over the world and caters to a certain type of customer. Considering most premium car in India are chauffeur driven it doesn't make much sense in our market to get one. Maybe things will change 15 years from now or something, who knows.