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Old 28th December 2019, 19:59   #16
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

The reason why I feel proud of Tata always is because Tata is one of 14 companies that are controlling or influencing majority of brands. This is one of the major reasons why Iíve mentioned them in my initial post about Tata and why they made me happy

Got this image on Facebook. I was pretty happy to see our Indian company being in the list amongst the biggies around the world.
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Old 28th December 2019, 21:47   #17
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Brands which have made me happy recently:
1. Kia: They came, they saw, they conquered. In such a down economy its heartening to see people buying Seltoses in such huge numbers. Shows that a good car will always have takers. And people are still enthusiastic about buying cars.

2. Hyundai: Hyundais make me feel good because as a company I feel they value India and our needs and dont take things for granted.( Unlike Maruti Suzuki IMHO).

Brands which have made me sad recently:
1. Yamaha: For their focus on scooters and not not on bikes.

2. Suzuki: For playing it too safe sometimes. Both with 2 and 4 wheelers.
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Old 29th December 2019, 07:14   #18
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

The brands which made me happy/sad,
  • Chevrolet - Spark, my first car was a gem.
  • Honda - WR-V, used City CVT, loved the refinement, butter smooth performance.
  • Skoda - Rapid, gave me the first feel of luxury.
  • Renault - Duster, I loved the rawness.
  • Ford - Ecosport, disappointed. It felt like a Japanese car.
  • Hyundai - Accent, my first sedan, most reliable among my cars.
  • Mahindra - XUV 5OO, just 4 days old and under scanner for highly unethical behavior.

Last edited by deehunk : 29th December 2019 at 07:38.
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Old 29th December 2019, 08:09   #19
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

The good brands that have made me happy:
1. Maruti- Consistently the best in customer satisfaction
2. Hyundai- Santro was just another alternative to the 800/Zen back in the day. Hyundai products of today are more desirable than the alternatives from Maruti.
3. Ford- seems to have redeemed themselves to with the new Figos and Endeavour. I'm still sad that we can't see a competitive Fiesta after the success of Ikon and original Fiesta.

* Will still reserve my judgement on Kia as I've not seen the car in person and they haven't been in India long enough

Brands for which I have mixed feelings:
1. Toyota- I've never seen a disappointed Toyota Owner. They lose brownie points for being too slow to react. Also, they are choosing the easy way to scale up in India by partnering with Maruti-Suzuki and not getting their own products. (I know there are a lot of external factors behind this deal)
2. Honda- I'm not been a fan of Honda to ditching/ignoring their flagship products (Civic, Accord and CR-V) and focusing only on small cars to improve volumes. They should have focused on both segments of the market and made better small cars.
3. Tata- I like Tata's designs, but I feel their execution is way off the mark. Hexa is what Aria should have been. Harrier with niggles and no AT is a joke.
4. M&M- I don't really like the design direction of M&M (barring the XUV500.) Quanto, Nuvosport, KUV are just horrible to look at. I'm not a fan of chopping the XUV 300 to meet the 4m length bracket. They should have sold it as a 4.2m SUV.

Brands which made me sad:
1. Mitsubishi: They had a enviable lineup. Only dust remains
2. Nissan: Nissan had a lot of promise. No updates and bad dealer network meant a quick demise.
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Old 29th December 2019, 08:35   #20
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

For me, it has to be Honda, VW which made me happy; Toyota and Ford were mixed bags; Hyundai and Maruti disappoint me.

All the Honda’s I have owned and driven have been global models, Odyssey in the US and CRV in India. Both made for a great driving experience, and were built well. The low cost platform started with the Brio/Amaze twins is a disappointment though.

Loved the only VW car I owned, a 2010 Polo. It was immaculately put together with high quality bits that made you feel good to drive it.

Ford has been a mixed bag - the first Ford I owned, a 2000 Focus, was such a poor quality car. The Ecosport 2013, which I still own, has been a rugged, zero maintenance and a very versatile vehicle, yet feels cheap in places.

The Toyotas I owned have been solid cars, but the driving experience mostly disappoints. The latest Innova is a break from tradition. It is actually nice to drive, thanks to the potent engines.

Hyundai and Maruti disappoint. They have squeezed so much profit over the years from gullible Indian customers, selling cheap and unsafe cars - just by banking on the exaggerated appetite for ease and low cost of after sales service displayed by the Indian customer, thanks to mostly shoddy products that have been available in India over decades.

Last edited by 84.monsoon : 29th December 2019 at 08:45.
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Old 29th December 2019, 10:23   #21
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

The brand that most disappointed me was Maruti Suzuki

No excuse for selling unsafe cars in this decade. Market leader selling unsafe cars (Structurally compromised) was the most disappointing aspect.

Still awaiting a 6 air-bag Maruti in the 2020s. Sigh!
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Old 29th December 2019, 10:47   #22
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Mercedes Benz: Happy for setting up shop and staying put in our country, which till then needed its people to overcome a lot of hurdles to own/maintain one of their cars.

Today anyone with the moolah could be a proud owner of a brand new three pointed star, as easy as getting hold of a commuter two wheeler! They also paved the way for other luxury badges to enter our market and made available a lot of decent pre-owned options too, from these badges.

I could say the same about superbike manufacturers too.

Chevrolet: Sad because they didn't do well despite the funky Beat and the powerful Cruze tasting initial success. Screwed up the product portfolio by introducing some lacklustre cars/engines and lack of proper updates to existing ones.
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Old 29th December 2019, 11:05   #23
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

To me all car makers are a disappointment. None of them have provided a car that ticks all the boxes.

Maruti has good service, good fuel efficient engines but build quality is just about adequate.

Hyundai again good products, good service but have taken a middle line approach when it comes to driving dynamics.

VW group have given us a fantastic TSI + DSG combo, great build quality but woefully inadequate service.

Toyota have provided great products which are very reliable, witha very good service but the pricing and placement is not to everyone's liking.
Etios / Liva are great reliable products with realistic pricing but the design was old school, uninspiring.
Innova, Fortuner again great products but extremely expensive.

Renault - good products but bad service, expensive parts, over optimistic pricing. Triber appears to be priced sanely at launch.

Nissan, more or less same story as Renault.

Tata, good build quality, but weak engines, poor product planning, poor showroom experience at least at Concorde, inefficient after sales.

If I had the wherewithal, I would definitely put together a vehicle picking the good bits from everyone.
Chassis and interior from VW, Engine from Maruti, space creation from Honda, suspension from Tata.
But it's just me.
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Old 29th December 2019, 19:22   #24
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Originally Posted by searacer932 View Post
The brand that most disappointed me was Maruti Suzuki

No excuse for selling unsafe cars in this decade. Market leader selling unsafe cars (Structurally compromised) was the most disappointing aspect.

Still awaiting a 6 air-bag Maruti in the 2020s. Sigh!
Agreed. Why?

Agree to the fact, they kept on selling structurally not so strong cars and cashing on the general population who need a car and arenít so worried about safety.

I have to disagree because itís us who kept encouraging them to do so because weíve to blame the mindset of people, which is very much us who kept buying such cars which returned good efficiency vs safety. Afterall, gen pop goes by budget. So whatever company weíre going to cater my need, I would go for it. And companies, in order to remain cost effective while being profitable, they gave us cars that looked good, performed well, but structurally fragile!

So, this way it was all interlinked to each other and MSIL went by catering to gen pop and being their best pick. Business my friend.

Thanks to upcoming norms, all manufacturers are now focused towards making their cars competent with safety. Even our Gen pop are educating themselves and are focusing on getting good cars with following in their purchase cart list;

1) Features - check
2) Performance - check
3) Strength - check
4) Safety - check
5) Budget conscious? Well, not really for now because all cars are going to cost marginally higher than what theyíre now after 2020.

With all these developments, believe MSIL are going to roll up their sleeves and work on their structural strength of their cars.
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Old 29th December 2019, 19:32   #25
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

For me the biggest disappointment has been Maruti. They are the market leaders and have 50% market share. Essentially they can dictate the markets and create demand. Which they did, albiet by making unsafe cars. If there is one company that deserves brickbats for abysmal safety and build standards in Indian cars, it is Maruti.
I expect to get a lot of hate for this post, but having owned a swift, this is what I feel. Don't get me wrong, the car is bulletproof when it comes to reliability and build of their newer models have improved, but still quite far from what I would expect from the market leaders.

The other one is of course Tata. A company that has a habit of letting you down. When they finally started making cars that won't let you down, everything else did.
If you can't sell a car like Hexa, I don't know what you can!
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Old 30th December 2019, 01:03   #26
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Thread moved from the Assembly Line to the Indian Car Scene. Thanks for sharing!

A most unique thread . Sharing my 2 paisa:

Chevrolet: Disappointed me big time by abandoning India. Mary Barra came to India and lied about major investments, only to do a u-turn in 12 months.

FCA: Very happy with the Compass as a product, but rather disheartened with their terrible response times. Still no well-priced Diesel AT which the market loves!

Ford: Happy with the cars. Glad they tied up with Mahindra instead of divorcing India like GM.

Skoda: Love their cars. The true definition of value-for-money because almost all of the models punch above their weight - related thread. Hate Skoda for the many errors it has made over the years which destroyed their reputation. Skoda could easily be selling double or triple what it currently does, if it weren't for their awful reputation.

Tata: They are trying very, very hard...
Quoting selected portions from GTO's post, which I can find relevant to my budget and aspirations. Hope it is not violating the forum rules.

Chevrolet: Since 2014, while I was still dreaming of owning a car, Optra Magnum diesel was on my mind, Cruz was a revelation. Unfortunate that the company abandoned all fight and exited. Disappointing.

FCA: Punto could have made with a slightly more powerful engine. What;s with all the segment leading build quality, looks, on-road behavior without the power to match. Always felt it was slightly over-priced. could have come with at least 1.5 or 1.6 MJD just like the Figo. 1.4 Abarth Punto could have been the template both for engine power [even 100 BHP, 240NM from a 1.4 MJD would be good] and pricing. Again disappointing.

Ford: Was really FIDA over the Fusion [after ownership reports by @Glass and @deepfusion] and 2014 Fiesta[excellent reports @Anachronix and @DeetJohn] but both were limited pieces sold in the market and looking at the market response, I was prevented to go for any Ford vehicle. Would have preferred the Fiesta 1.5TDCi if it were on sale, without even thinking of the Rapid I ended up with. Again disappointing.

Skoda: Happy with Skoda, happy with the Rapid Style variant. Top-end features, top safety kit [build quality, 4 airbags, ABS, Reverse camera, auto dimming IRVM, etc] and a fairly reliable 1.6 MPI petrol engine, did fit the bill, since the space was not an issue [none of us are taller than 5'5"]. Happy so far, with 6-yr warranty, Skoda shield, RSA.

TATA: Typical Indian behemoth, with a typically Indian high-school student attitude. You expect him to score 100%, he scores 80% of that. You expext him to score at least 80%, he he scores 80% of that = 60%. Disappointing, but am optimistic for Altroz and all other future exams.

Hero: Hero puch was my first love, with almost all my friends [boys and girls (rooting for the gearless variant over the TVS Excel) alike] owning one, atleast 60% of them. Its amazing pulling power and efficiency being a 2-stroke was a hit. Disappointed it shut long before I could even get my DL.

Kinetic: The ever remembered, ever venerable Mr. Dilip Bam's report pushed me towards the Kinetic King 100DLX - 4-stroke, 4 foot-gears, 4.5 HP 100cc moped with an incredible [read it as INCREDIBLE] fuel efficiency of close to 89 KMpL. Crossed 94 KMpL regularly [especially just after the service, air-filter cleaned] and tapered towards 80 KMpL, but NEVER dropped below 70 KMpL [carrying monthly ration like an auto]. Disappointed it never took off due to various marketing mistakes, many times committed together in a very ruthless unforgiving market. Rode the King for 11 years, and it co-existed with my other bike for more than a year. NEVER under-performed.

TVS: I will call it the TATA motors of two-wheeler market. Making very good products, never really produced multiple products that captured market all together. The Excel super is still the benchmark for a trouble-free entry ticket into 2-wheeler world. Everyday see both 2-stroke and 4-stroke variants being overloaded and moving like only they can. I bought in 2014 a TVS Sport 100cc 4-stroke bike on upgrading from my Kinetic King, and retained it for 4 years and 46K KMs. It co-existed with my current ride 220cc BS4 Avenger till 2018. Absolutely a fill-it shut-it forget-it ride with equally competent, responsive, customer friendly ASS team. Felt bad while selling the bike.

Bajaj: Happy with the product, happy with the sales and services team which is the face of the company for me.
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Old 30th December 2019, 02:03   #27
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Happy with brands:

Tata: Tata has come a long way in passenger car engineering. Gone are the days when Indica/Indigo were the flagships. Their portfolio is rich and wide now. They have given Indian consumers the first 5* safety rated Nexon at the prices of ~10L. JTP = affordable performance. Having said that, there is a lot of work to do. They need to learn to SELL well. They have to improve their brand perception, dealer network and customer service.

Hyundai: The closest challenger to the Big MS (The only Big MS other than Microsoft ). Generally, Hyundai cars are well equipped for the price and are relatively well-built and well-finished too. They also bring-in segment-first features very often. They also launch global cars in India and don't remove too many features unlike other OEMs. They have always tried to offer a wide portfolio even if in some segments sales are in just 2 digits per month. Also, they have setup global manufacturing hub in India. They are committed to India for sure. They have a steady market share of ~15%. It can only grow.

Mahindra: M&M have also grown leaps and bounds in engineering, quality and fit and finish. But they are yet to reach the top class now set by Tata. Ssangyong acquisition has helped them, but still there a lot of work to do just like Tata. Fit and finish on the exterior and overall design is great, but interior design and quality needs a lot of work (even though, newly launched cars are much better). I don't see them taking a step back from here tough. Early investmets in EV tech will help in long term.

Ford: Have given some solid cars off late. Ecosport, Figo, Freestyle, Aspire, Endeavor. Build quality and attention to safety is great. They have always faced challenges in remaining profitable. This might change with the merger with M&M. Will have to wait and watch.

Renault: Some segment-firsts, Monocoque AWD SUV - Duster, sub-4-meter 7 seater which is not a van - Triber. Not afraid to experiment and offer new packages to Indian consumers, priced sensibly for the most part. Still far from being an established player.

Disappointed with Brands:

Maruti Suzuki: Being a market leader by a huge margin, MS offers very mediocre, outdated products with total disregard to safety. Build quality is the poorest among segments. They are so aggressive in reducing the weight of the cars that the materials used are extremely thin and fragile. With Indian traffic conditions, these flimsy parts break so easily. The biggest myth is that their service costs are the lowest. I agree that they have the widest service network and getting an MS car serviced is convenient than other OEM cars. But it is not cheap by any measure. Apart from small cars, their portfolio is quite thin. They are very risk aversive. They almost never launch a segment-first car, they wait for others to launch, experiment, fail and MS would learn from it and have a late enterant advantage (unique term to Indian companies ). Overall nothing exciting, they remain plain jane vanilla cars (which are copies of competitors' cars), which Indians buy as a safe option. That is not a trait of a segment leader.

Chevrolet-GM-MG: GM abandoned India after hit or miss cars (mostly misses) for over 10 years. Now, did a re-entry using a Chinese partner SIAC with British origin brand - MG. MG-Hector is sold as Chevrolet Captiva in some countries. There is absolutely nothing British about MG now. Chevy plants were sold to SIAC. Speaking of MG, I think the clever British brand deception has worked for the time being. It is too early to say anything about MG's future. It depends on what portfolio it offers and how well it takes care of customers. A-S-S remains a big unknown yet.

Fiat/Jeep: Rock solid cars, brilliant engineering, but the company . Their cars lasts longer than the company. How difficult is it for company to just sustain in a hot market like India even after having superior cars. Something seriously wrong in Indian leadership. They have great products, need to learn to SELL. Jeep started with a uphill task. It wants to position itself in premium segment where its parent failed to establish itself in economy segment.

Nissan/Datsun: Good cars (Nissan), let down by bad management/dealer network. A great car like Kicks is not able to lift the company - that tells a lot about their bad reputation. Less spoken about Datsun, better it is. Selling structurally unsafe cars in 2019

Toyota: Apart from Innova, Fortuner - nothing much exciting. Yaris was a good try but ruined it with the pricing. For a car brand that has not achieved significant market share even after 20 years, their ads just bragging of the badge - "Its a Toyota, what else do you want?" is a bit too much. Now, sharing cars with MS, whats the fun in buying MS cars with T badge?

Honda: It can write a book - "How to ruin your position as an enthusiast brand?". What is really going on with the headhonchos at Honda? Design has gone worse every passing year. Pricing and packaging is way off from the ground reality. Brand characteristics are messed up with every launch. Bad decisions - launching Brio when there were more competent, well-built cars already selling in the market. Taking own sweet time to get Diesel burners. Launching a D segement Civic when sedans are declining. If there is one OEM who has no idea what it is doing it must be Honda. They must bring in some leaders from Honda scooter division to head the cars division.

Skoda: Trying hard with good products, but has completely lost it when it comes to dealer network and after-sales service. It is only surviving because it sells in low numbers. If Skoda sells like Hyundai numbers, the service network will collapse.

VW: I don't know how long TSI and DSG will pull customers to the booking counter. Nothing new, nothing exciting for last 5 years. Most dated body shell and platform. Plus the same probs as Skoda A-S-S network.
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Old 30th December 2019, 08:28   #28
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

[quote=jkaushik;4720837]Brands which have made me happy recently:

2. Hyundai: Hyundais make me feel good because as a company I feel they value India and our needs and dont take things for granted.( Unlike Maruti Suzuki IMHO).

100% True.
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Old 30th December 2019, 16:45   #29
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Happy - Tata made me happy when I bought my Manza. It was my first bigger car and Tata gave quite a lot in terms of features with it then, not to mention the road presence.

Disappointed - It is also Tata that disappointed me with their pathetic after Sales Service and faster degradation of the car. Resale value after 8 odd years is about 7% of the purchase price.

Looking for another car manufacturer to make Happy now.
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Old 30th December 2019, 17:03   #30
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Default Re: Which manufacturers made you happy...and which disappointed you?

Cars that made me happy:

(i) Hyundai Accent Executive (Petrol)- It has been 10.5 years of owning this car. When it was purchased in Mid-2009, it offered bang for the buck. A well put car with a decent engine and space. After serving reliably for more than 1.40 lakh kms and no major issues, it is our local city commute car. However, two major disappointments in this car have been small back seat (3 will be a crowd) despite the outward appearance and single digit mileage.

(ii) Hyundai Creta (SX I.6 L Diesel)-We bought it in July 2018. As many of you know, I met with a horrible accident last December in Creta. Though it needed extensive repairs and was in service centre for 3 months, it has not given any major problems to me and have travelled over 35000 kms in the car. It gives good mileage (14-16 in city and 19-20 on highway) and 1.6 L diesel engine is a gem. It is an extremely comfortable car for 4 adults and a kid. I have undertaken two long trips in last 5 months- a 800 km round trip to Khatu Shyamji & Salasar and a 1800 km round trip to Udaipur & Mount Abu- where it just worked flawlessly throughout without any issues. Though quality of plastics used at this price point leaves a lot to be desired, some surprising deletions (no isofix in SX model) and it would have been amazing if it's rear seat could seat 3 adults comfortably.

Cars that made me sad:
(i) Renault Duster (RxL 110 BHP)- We had got this car in January 2014. It was a comfortable car and could easily seat 5 adults (though a bit tighter kneeroom). However, everything else was horrendous (no offence to anyone). Apart from the antique interiors and bad plastics, the gear shift was notchy/confused, that heavy clutch (it used to be painful to drive in bumper to bumper traffic) and bad ergonomics. It was further aggravated by the worse service experiences and bad management of Renault India. I had got it serviced in Authorised Service Centre during free services but looking at the quality of services and the amount charged, I started getting it serviced at FNG. Around August 2016, while commuting in city, it just died on us and stopped working without any warning lights. Long story short, the Authorised Service Centre in Faridabad just concluded that engine has seized as their was no engine oil in the engine bay (though I am sure there was engine oil when the car stalled and no sign was flashed on the MID for low engine oil) and quoted Rs. 5.50 lakh for engine replacement. Despite writing many detailed e-mails to Renault India, its then chairperson and also, Renault headquarters in France, nothing was done by them. I took my car from there and took it to a FNG, whose owner was known to my father. He inspected the car and informed that engine was fine with no problem whatsoever and it was Turbo which went kaput. A new turbo was installed, at a total cost of less than Rs. 50,000, and it started working. However, the FNG person informed us that it will be fine for local commutes and will not be very reliable for long runs. Sold it to Cars24 in July 2018 and have decided never to buy a Renault Car ever in my life. Good Riddance.

(ii) Tata Indica Vista (VX Diesel)- We had got this car home in December 2011 after comparing it with Swift which had same engine as Vista but was priced much higher than Vista despite less space and features. However, witnessed the shoddy quality of Tata dealers immediately upon reaching home after delivery. There were remnants of Patties in the parcel tray below the passenger seat (I had excitedly opened it in front of family members to show them the smart feature by Tata and was treated to this sight. Embarrasing much). The engine was a disappointment, both in terms of power delivery and mileage. I still fail to understand how Tata messed this up when Maruti had owned diesel segment in cars below 10 lakh with this same engine. Vista was supposed to be coming of age car for Tata then. It was not a fuss free ownership at all and am still doubtful about reliability of Tata Cars.
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