[RickyC]

Originally Posted by StarScream

Wondering whether BS6 makes a difference to the 10-year diesel ownership limit in NCR? Is there a benefit to being cleaner?

Ideally, it should make a difference and the legal life-cycle should be 15 years for a Diesel BSVI vehicles. This can probably off set the rise of car prices for an average Delhi-NCR car buyer, pep up the sagging demand of cars and keep the environment less stressed as apposed to earlier BSIV vehicles.

Who knows, the Supreme Court may actually be waiting for BSVI to kick in before it takes a decision on increasing the life cycle of Private Diesel vehicles to 15 years.

[Vid6639]

It is sad to see the 2.8L engine being axed in the Innova due to BS6. When it was launched it was very un Toyota like and quite a pleasant shock. At the 2016 Expo, I called GTO from the Toyota stall which I was covering as to how shocked I was with a 2.8L 170BHP engine in the Innova vs the 2.4L.

That said I can somewhat understand the rationale behind this decision even though it is not one I agree with it.

1. The 2.8L was a gem but it was an overkill for an MPV when the 2.4L was more than sufficient. Most Innovas were chauffeur driven and even those that weren't, wouldn't have minded had it come with 2.4L AT top trim in first place.
2. Since BS6 does affect FE, the already low FE of 2.8L vs 2.4L would have not made some people too happy.
3. The change to 2.4L for AT variants means the price went up by 40-60K and did not cross the 30L on road barrier which it would have in some cities if it was 2.8L engine AT and BS6.
4. Clearer differentiation between Fortuner and Innova now.

Ideally, I would have preferred a ZX+ variant with 2.8L BS6 engine and even more features. The 2.4L AT could have been the new introduction with a 8 seater variant as well.

They just killed one of the big USP's of the Innova with this move.

[DicKy]

Looks like Phillipines will be the only market with a 2.8 Innova right now.
One of my dream family vehicles, it's sad that the 2.8 is being axed. One of the rare times when Toyota is taking away something from a model halfway into its life, instead of adding something.

We may feel that they sprang a pleasant surprise bringing the 2.8, but guess it was a move to provide an excuse for the vast increase in price. Now the new price range is all set, and customers still buying it, they are using the bs6 to quietly remove the 2.8, giving the 4x2 Fortuner A/T a reason for its existence.

Not to mention, most of the customers who couldn't appreciate the extra power may have been yapping about the low FE and brake fading. So like how Tata decontents their cars with 'positive' market feedback, Toyota seems to have given the customer what they want.

An ideal world would have been where they offered both the 2.4 A/T and 2.8 A/T, but as things are right now, wouldn't be surprised if they offered the Fortuner in 2.4 guise like other markets (a la the last few years of previous generation)

Was hoping the bs6 change would make them offer the 6mt as standard across the range, instead of giving it only on the Touring Sport

C'mon TKM !!! Customers who would stretch for the Touring Sport would inevitably go for the A/T variant. It's the GX, VX owners who are the real mile munchers and would appreciate the lower cruising RPMs and higher FE, however negligible it maybe.

[TREKKER WOODS]

This is like the first time I am writing something on the team-bhp website. So here it goes.
I felt pretty sad when toyota discontinued the 2.8 litre engine which truly was better than the 2.4 because of this cars immense weight. The 2.4 will be a bit slower yet more fuel efficient. Toyota has already made plans to overthrow the Kia Carnival when it comes as it is offered in a less capacity engine.
So overall I think that Toyota has taken a big step and I certainly should congratulate them.

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by Yeldo

People like yours truly are left with 2.8L Crystas which will hopefully achieve classic status soon.

I took one in november and am I happy? Ehh, take a look at my face since Nov:

I am fine with it, with a Polo 1.5 TDi and a Crysta 2.8; I am owning the last of two beasts, where the Crysta 2.8 is one of its kind in India; the van with a true truck / SUV engine!

[sabujsen]

I have a question. Since all Crysta models will use SCR and DPF, why are the prices different for different variants? Shouldn't the BS6 upgrade cost be same across all variants? Has Toyota added extra features to charge more for higher models?

[penpavan]

Originally Posted by DicKy

Not to mention, most of the customers who couldn't appreciate the extra power may have been yapping about the low FE and brake fading.

I don't think anyone has complained about the FE of the 2.8 engine. I get 12.5 to 13 consistently on 80% highway driving. I think 2.4 engine is not better than this. Or is it ?

[vishy76]

Originally Posted by penpavan

I don't think anyone has complained about the FE of the 2.8 engine. I get 12.5 to 13 consistently on 80% highway driving. I think 2.4 engine is not better than this. Or is it ?

Comparing the 2.4 manuals FE on highways to that of the 2.8 won't be fair to be honest. The 2.8 benefits from the taller gear ratio of its 6th cog. It's spinning over at barely 1650 rpm @ 100 kmhr. On the other hand, the 2.4 manual does the same at 2000 rpm. That's a sizeable difference.

Not everyone sees the potential of the 2.8. You will find a few raving about the power and low end torque, while others will complain about the single digit FE in cities. This is an Indian trait, irrespective of whether you have bought an overpriced 25 lakh MUV or a hatchback.

Personally, the only gripe with the 2.4 for me is the refinement. It just isn't as refined as the 2.8. The 2.8 has a roar and more of a pronounced humming at lower rpms, while the 2.4 has a clattery note which won't go down well with many. If Toyota can up the refinement quotient, the 2.4 is a good compromise for most buyers.

The 2.8 will be a classic in my books though. What an engine. That thing made a 1.7 tonne MUV a D-segment sedan when it came to power. Current owners should really consider themselves lucky!

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by penpavan

I don't think anyone has complained about the FE of the 2.8 engine. I get 12.5 to 13 consistently on 80% highway driving. I think 2.4 engine is not better than this. Or is it ?

Most of the owners who bought it just for the auto, (couldn't care much for engine size) are city slickers. Also atleast in kerala, most of the roads that pass for a highway won't allow you to even stay at 5th gear for long. FE takes a hit. More so for a bigger engine, needs an open road to be at its efficient best.

The 2.4 with auto will definitely be more FE than the 2.8, but at best maybe 2kmpl difference.

The 2.4 with the 6spd manual, I guess may shame most of the similar class monocoque 'SUVs' and crossovers with its highway FE.

[PrideRed]

I now have 4 crysta in my circle(including 2 which I own). Here are the differences between 2.8 and 2.4 based on my 2 year experience.

1. 2.8 has better top end. I would say 2.8 has 10-15% more juice than 2.4.
2. Lesser engine noise and a quieter cabin in 2.8. Even from outside engine is less audible.
3. The FE difference in city like Bangalore was more pronounced. When 2.4 would return 8-9KMPL, 2.8 would deliver 5-6KMPL in similar conditions.
4. In highway the difference was only about 1.5-2KMPL, thanks to 6th Cog in 2.8.
5. The bottom end and driving modes are actually more fun in 2.4. Being a manual, you get instant response. PWR mode makes a huge difference in 2.4, not so much with 2.8.
6. Brakes feel slightly better in 2.4, the 2.8 stops with no drama whatsoever.

Now with 2.4 Auto I expect Innova to exhibit similar character to 2.8 Auto(Torque ratings are exactly same), albeit at the cost of top end and engine noise. The ARAI rated FE for 2.4 Auto is 14.4 which is just 0.2 more than 2.8. With BS6 ARAI rating for manual has gone up to 15.5(+0.3), Not that these tiny improvements matter though.

[Durango Dude]

Least Toyota can do is get a 2.0L diesel engine & gear box/automatic especially for the Innova Crysta with better efficiency and refinement that is BS 6 compliant and then hike the price, instead of short changing the customer with same old reworked 2.4 coupled with a 'fat' price hike. How difficult is it for Toyota to get a 2.0L diesel and a 6 speed manual and automatic gearbox?? When Hyundai can give a 2.0L diesel with 185 ps and 40.8 kgm torque in its Tucson why not Toyota?

[Aditya_Bhp]

Large number of 2.8L AT Innovas are on sale in OLX here within a few years of launch. Most owners use the Innova as a daily use car and are complaining of the poor fuel efficiency of the 2.8L. Some have sold off their automatics and have downgraded to 2.4L Manuals, just for the fuel efficiency. Even though the Innova 2.8L suffers from poor fuel efficiency, that hasn't affected the resale value, its still high.

By launching the 2.4L Automatic, Toyota has taken care of 2 issues, minimized the BS6 upgrade price difference and then reduced the concerns of poor fuel efficiency slightly.

The 2.4L Innova is no slouch. I would say its above par. The fan following is such that even if Toyota launches the Innova with a 100ps engine, people will still wait in queue to purchase the same.

[Turbanator]

I believe Toyota might get away with this one but I will be surprised if they reach 2018 or 2019 numbers in 2020. The last time I was on Delhi - Chandigarh highway, the road was full of the Mahindra Marazzo. People like me who have always cherished the rear seat of Innova over anything will be getting fewer as the difference in the price of Innova and other options increases. Simultaneously, the quality of others like Mahindra has been improving.

Toyota cars were always expensive but now these are getting overly expensive and with the limited new models/ features, it will be tough for them to sustain the large network they have built. I foresee difficult times for them.

[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by Turbanator

I believe Toyota might get away with this one but I will be surprised if they reach 2018 or 2019 numbers in 2020. The last time I was on Delhi - Chandigarh highway, the road was full of the Mahindra Marazzo. People like me who have always cherished the rear seat of Innova over anything will be getting fewer as the difference in the price of Innova and other options increases. Simultaneously, the quality of others like Mahindra has been improving.

Toyota cars were always expensive but now these are getting overly expensive and with the limited new models/ features, it will be tough for them to sustain the large network they have built. I foresee difficult times for them.

I rode back to back in a Crysta and a Marrazo. The Marrazo actually had better passenger comfort. Marrazo felt much more smoother/refined and had even better ride quality. I think at least in the taxi market once people experience Marrazo they may wonder what the hoopla around crysta is.

[cs_rajesh]

Sad to note that 2.8 L engine may not be available on the Innova Crysta, neither as MT nor AT. 2.8 L engine is a gem. However, I chose 2.4 MT for both my innova purchases due to my preference for MT (i would have taken 2.8 MT, if it was there for sure) and the cost difference between MT vs AT (almost ~ 2L on road price higher than 2.4 MT and that too with no additional features).

I have noticed during a considerably long test drive of a 2.8 L engine Crysta, the 2.8 L provides better pull at low RPM, plus I understand from its owner that this engine + AT, gives appreciable enough mileage if driven predominantly on highways.

Originally Posted by vishy76

Comparing the 2.4 manuals FE on highways to that of the 2.8 won't be fair to be honest. The 2.8 benefits from the taller gear ratio of its 6th cog. It's spinning over at barely 1650 rpm @ 100 kmhr. On the other hand, the 2.4 manual does the same at 2000 rpm. That's a sizeable difference.

+1, probably due to the 6 speed gearbox and tall gearing.

Originally Posted by PrideRed

..

The ARAI rated FE for 2.4 Auto is 14.4 which is just 0.2 more than 2.8. With BS6 ARAI rating for manual has gone up to 15.5(+0.3), Not that these tiny improvements matter though.

I also noticed that the MID on the test drive vehicle was showing 10.8 kmpl as average FE, when this car was mostly run within the city limits. I assume there is not more than 1.5 - 2 kmpl mileage loss when compared to the 2.4 L Crysta and this to many, may be considerable difference but to me this appears acceptable.

Originally Posted by PrideRed

5. The bottom end and driving modes are actually more fun in 2.4. Being a manual, you get instant response. PWR mode makes a huge difference in 2.4, not so much with 2.8.

2.8 by default is on PWR mode perhaps