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Old 10th January 2020, 09:39   #46
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Default Re: Jeep Compass 4x4 Diesel AT BS6 coming in lower variants

Contrary to popular opinion, I still feel a Compass diesel automatic with 4*4 would be the best do-it-all car under 40 lakhs for a small family. It can do:
- long roadtrips with an enjoyable driving experience
- city driving thanks to it's compact size and an automatic
- my wife can drive it without feeling it's too big (she found the Innova and Endeavor too big for city use)
- mild off reading
- can be tuned for even more power and torque

Of course it's 2 years late to the scene and the Seltos diesel automatic is taking the game further away from Jeep. But if I was in the market looking for a new 25 lakh SUV, I'd still go with the Compass diesel automatic 4*4. The sad part is no other manufacturer is creating a similar package in the 20-30 lakh space.
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Old 10th January 2020, 09:48   #47
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Default Re: Jeep Compass diesel AT to be offered in lower trims

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
If anyone wants to know how to ruin a product, just talk to the Jeep India guys.
You need to speak to the Fiat India guys, that's who Jeep India takes advice from.
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Old 10th January 2020, 09:59   #48
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Default Re: Jeep Compass diesel AT to be offered in lower trims

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Originally Posted by AMG Power View Post
You need to speak to the Fiat India guys, that's who Jeep India takes advice from.
Its the same guys. I don't think the management team is any different.

I still love the Jeep. Its my choice in that budget in the market today,with the only other one being a used Fortuner.
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Old 10th January 2020, 10:50   #49
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Default Re: Jeep Compass 4x4 Diesel AT BS6 coming in lower variants

No matter what Jeep does, Compass would not be able to compete with either the Seltos or the Harrier/Hector twins. Seltos would win hands down by features and Harrier/Hector by size.

Compass sold well initially since there were not many (any?) capable SUVs available at that price point. Two years later the scene has completely changed. Today, only real fans of the Jeep badge are going to buy a Compass.

So Jeep should quit trying hard to win over the mass market and start looking to bring its next model. The Renegade should be able to compete with the Seltos if they are able to price it within 20L. I don't think they are going to achieve anything by building the rumored <4m SUV as that segment is already saturated with the Brezza, Ecosport, Venue and the XUV300.

Last edited by civic-sense : 10th January 2020 at 11:10.
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Old 10th January 2020, 11:02   #50
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Default Re: Jeep Compass 4x4 Diesel AT BS6 coming in lower variants

Hopefully Tata does not get carried away on the Harrier auto pricing seeing the prices Jeep is indicating for the Compass Diesel Auto. 26 lakhs on road for the longitude auto! Granted, it is a 4x4 but this is still exorbitant for a compact (really compact inside) car. I think what is driving up pricing is the 9 speed ZF gearbox which is shared with top drawer models such as Acura MDX, Land Rover Discovery Sport, Range Rover Evoque, Jaguar E-Pace, Jeep Grand Commander and Fiat 500X, it is obviously very expensive for this Segment in India. Honda is having to price its latest CRV Diesel 9AT very high in India since it also uses this box.

Tata on the other hand seems to have a cost effective solution with the Hyundai sourced 6-speed that is part of even mid level Kia Seltos models costing around 13 lakhs ex-showroom.

However, this Powertech 6F24 transmission is available in different variants depending on engine size, with increasing torque capacity. The transmission finds the most applications in petrol engines with a typical torque limit of 280NM guise (A6MF1) although larger variants are available to handle up to 400 NM. I believe the Seltos Diesel Auto, with a torque limit of 250NM, uses the 280NM variant of 6F24.

I just hope Tata does not pick this smaller gearbox variant due to cost considerations and de-tune the Fiat engine (that can make up to 350 NM) and force it to make no more than 280NM to pair with the most Hyundai auto box used in the Seltos - and therefore probably the most common version of 6F24 available in India already. Tata has already demonstrated their urge to detune engines with a “this is more than enough for Indian consumers” attitude - look at what they did to the peak Harrier engine (Detuned to 140hp instead of 173 hp in Compass and Hector).

https://www.atsg.us/atsg/blog/a6speedfromkorea/

Last edited by 84.monsoon : 10th January 2020 at 11:22.
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Old 10th January 2020, 15:36   #51
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Default Re: Jeep Compass 4x4 Diesel AT BS6 coming in lower variants

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
No matter what Jeep does, Compass would not be able to compete with either the Seltos or the Harrier/Hector twins. Seltos would win hands down by features and Harrier/Hector by size.

Compass sold well initially since there were not many (any?) capable SUVs available at that price point. Two years later the scene has completely changed. Today, only real fans of the Jeep badge are going to buy a Compass.
Size and features are not the only two parameters that people make vehicle purchase decisions on. The Compass wins over the Seltos, Harrier/Hector on one huge parameter: Driving dynamics + capability. Last time I checked none of these vehicles you've listed have AWD. One would think this is a major differentiator when discussing crossovers.
Perhaps people buying the compass are interested in offroad capability or onroad driving pleasure? Both of which are my primary priorities when purchasing an SUV/crossover. Badge is irrelevant.

And on a side note I think it's laughable that we are discussing a bunch of FWD vehicles and calling them "capable SUVs" What exactly are these "SUVs" capable of? As far as I'm concerened they're minivans that look like crossovers, but with less practicality than a minivan.

Last edited by suneel : 10th January 2020 at 15:38.
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Old 10th January 2020, 19:55   #52
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Default Re: Jeep Compass 4x4 Diesel AT BS6 coming in lower variants

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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
So they deleted the low-range transfer case - as per autocarindia! But I read in Trailhawk review that it didn't have any low-range transfer case at all - it just had a very low ratio 1st gear to mimic the classic "low range transfer case". So what did they delete now?
I was curious about this too. AFAIK, the Trailhawk does not have a low-range transfer case, using the first gear to stand in for the low-range. So, in this new 4x4 AT version, does it use the first gear as first gear or what?
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Old 10th January 2020, 23:38   #53
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Default Re: Jeep Compass 4x4 Diesel AT BS6 coming in lower variants

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The Compass will never be able to match the Seltos when it comes to price. The buyer of a compass is different than one of the Seltos. A buyer who is looking for a set of driving characteristics and feel can never settle for the Seltos even if the features are more.
I fully concur with your thoughts. The Driving characteristics of a Compass is in a different league compared to Seltos. The Compass diesel, capable of generating 171 PS@3750 rpm with 4x4 capability and 9 speed AT is no comparison to a 4x2 Seltos diesel AT churning 113 PS@4000 rpm. Plus 10 Years down the lane, a Jeep would still be Jeep. Don't think many can say the same about Kia


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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
The Seltos is 22L on road for top end diesel AT but the Trailhawk is 35L. The Compass is superior but not 13L superior.
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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
What the Compass offers is superior driving feel, solidity, depth of engineering, strong mechanicals. Some of these are not easy to describe on paper but more on feel. On a paper to paper comparison, the Compass will lose badly.
I would not call this an apples to apples comparison. The Trailhawk is targeting a niche audience of die hard offroaders and was never going to make it big in the numbers front. Most Indian's would shudder at the thought of taking their 30L+ SUV's offroading even if the vehicle was purpose built for that IMO, Jeep is using this variant to amplify the aura surrounding the Jeep brand. A more realistic comparison would be between the Seltos GTX+ DCT line and Compass 4x2 Limited Plus Petrol AT. Now, the difference is less than 4 Lacs (not including the discounts). I would pick the Jeep anyday over the Seltos. I get a more powerful engine, a better build quality, beautiful Panaromic Sunroof and off-course, the Jeep DNA.

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
[*]The Compass does not need additional gimmicky features like HUD, 360 camera, connected car thru mobile app. IMO these will not change the sales of the car. When the Compass was launched it was too stripped down even for the top end. The Limited plus has all the features one will ever need today but the price is plain silly for the MT today @ 29L on road and that means the ZF9 BS6 AT will be 32+.

What the Compass needs is not more features to match the Kia as Compass buyers don't really buy it for the fancy features. What it needs is a price correction!
After seeing Renuka's interview with Partha, it is very clear that Jeep is keen to position itself as a premium brand. And premium brands by the very definition command premium pricing. But in the same token, premium brands have really no excuse for lack of premium features. So instead of reducing the price, i think they would do well by giving more premium features i.e Ventilated Seats, 360 camera, front parking sensors, electric tailgate, TPMS, UV-cut solar glass on the front windshield and windows, rear window shades etc. These are all available in the international version of the Compass. I have a strong feeling that the upcoming VW T-Cross is exactly going to do that.
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Old 11th January 2020, 00:06   #54
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Default Re: Jeep Compass 4x4 Diesel AT BS6 coming in lower variants

So many capable cars have died a quick yet painful death simply because their manufacturers wanted to play the 'premium' game. The problem with pricing cars at perceived value instead of actual cost + margin is that it seems so attractive and elegant when someone gets it right. But getting it right and then sustaining it happens oh so rarely. Not everyone can play the Creta/Innova/Fortuner pricing game and get away with it. Especially a struggling brand which wants to grow. Really hope Jeep realizes how badly it screwed up the pricing as well as equipment list on the Compass and uses the BS6 transition to make the correction across the range. The only way someone gets away with the premium game is if they sells in good numbers. Unless Jeep doesn't make drastic changes, that is not going to happen.

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Old 11th January 2020, 00:17   #55
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Default Re: Jeep Compass 4x4 Diesel AT BS6 coming in lower variants

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
The buyer of a compass is different than one of the Seltos. A buyer who is looking for a set of driving characteristics and feel can never settle for the Seltos even if the features are more.
Most Jeep Compass owners here are elderly business men who used to use the Innova before. If Jeep is in India to cater only to driving enthusiasts, then just like Fiat, it will struggle. You need cars for the masses also. Impress the public, it will sell well. Look at the MG Hector, it fails to impress the BHPians, fails to gather any votes on TeamBHP polls, but the public have accepted it and has gathered good number of bookings. If MG can personalize a car for Indian taste, then Jeep can do the same.

The Jeep Compass is not a true Jeep too, its a Fiat underneath. If Tata and MG are planning automatic gearboxes for a Fiat engine, why can't Fiat attach an automatic gearbox to 4x2 Fiat Multijet? Jeep should dilute its DNA inorder to survive in the market.


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Plus 10 Years down the lane, a Jeep would still be Jeep. Don't think many can say the same about Kia
10 years down the line, doubt if Jeep India would exist if they are continuing the same way. Kia on the other hand, looks like will continue Hyundai's success.

Last edited by Aditya_Bhp : 11th January 2020 at 00:21.
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Old 11th January 2020, 10:04   #56
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Default Re: Jeep Compass 4x4 Diesel AT BS6 coming in lower variants

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Originally Posted by hishetty View Post

I would not call this an apples to apples comparison. The Trailhawk is targeting a niche audience of die hard offroaders and was never going to make it big in the numbers front. Most Indian's would shudder at the thought of taking their 30L+ SUV's offroading even if the vehicle was purpose built for that IMO, Jeep is using this variant to amplify the aura surrounding the Jeep brand.
I agree that Trailhawk to Seltos is not apples to apples comparison but the new Limited plus loses some 4x4 electronics but has more features like electric seats, rain sensing wipers and lights. I suspect this non Trail-hawk version will not be too far off from the Trail-hawk pricing. I would love to be proven wrong and see a sub 30L on road price.


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Originally Posted by hishetty View Post
A more realistic comparison would be between the Seltos GTX+ DCT line and Compass 4x2 Limited Plus Petrol AT. Now, the difference is less than 4 Lacs (not including the discounts). I would pick the Jeep anyday over the Seltos. I get a more powerful engine, a better build quality, beautiful Panaromic Sunroof and off-course, the Jeep DNA.
In this particular case I would have to completely disagree with you

Not in terms of comparison but the car itself. The Compass 4x2 Petrol DDCT 1.4L engine is 160PS on paper but has to pull a lot more weight than the Seltos. The Seltos is quicker and far superior in performance. Secondly the Compass 1.4L Multi-air engine is notorious for ridiculously low FE. We are talking 5-6kmpl in traffic. Thirdly the 7 speed DCT is known to be one of the most unreliable boxes. Probably worse than the Kia 7DCT. Fourthly the gearbox tuning is terrible and the Compass 1.4L feels really lazy and lethargic to drive. The Seltos is the far superior pick if you compare both Turbo Petrol's.

It's the diesel which makes the Compass shine and the package comes together.


Quote:
So instead of reducing the price, i think they would do well by giving more premium features i.e Ventilated Seats, 360 camera, front parking sensors, electric tailgate, TPMS, UV-cut solar glass on the front windshield and windows, rear window shades etc. These are all available in the international version of the Compass. I have a strong feeling that the upcoming VW T-Cross is exactly going to do that.
Adding all these features to the Compass will lose it's appeal and not even increase sales. The whole point is for a crossover, the size of the Compass and a brand of Jeep how much people are willing to pay. The answer is definitely not above 30L and 28L being the upper limit.

If you see recently the Tiguan sales shot up when they were clearing BS4 stocks. The discounts meant the Tiguan was nearly 6-7L lower than its regular price. The Tiguan has lesser features than the Seltos but has superior engineering than even the Compass and feels even more premium. However it is a small SUV with a VW badge and did not sell well. Heck the Seltos has way more features today than the BMW X1.

This is the point I was saying, more features don't sell for the type of buyer the Tiguan and Compass are targeting. They don't mind spending extra for premium feel, depth of engineering over fancy features.

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Originally Posted by Aditya_Bhp View Post
Most Jeep Compass owners here are elderly business men who used to use the Innova before. If Jeep is in India to cater only to driving enthusiasts, then just like Fiat, it will struggle. You need cars for the masses also. Impress the public, it will sell well. Look at the MG Hector, it fails to impress the BHPians, fails to gather any votes on TeamBHP polls, but the public have accepted it and has gathered good number of bookings. If MG can personalize a car for Indian taste, then Jeep can do the same.
Sorry but I have interacted with quite a few Jeep buyers and none of them were Innova owners. They are usually owners of Fiat cars, Ecosport, Duster or a sedan moving to SUV. I have never heard of an Innova owner move to a Compass (not that there aren't).

That said the Compass was supposed to be the India spec car for the Indian market and not just for enthusiasts. The product is still just that. It is a compact crossover targeted for growing markets. Just that it is slightly biased towards enthusiasts. The 2 biggest problems for the Compass are interior space and price. Not the lack of features. The other problem was lack of a diesel AT. But even that won't work if the other 2 points are not satisfied.


Quote:
The Jeep Compass is not a true Jeep too, its a Fiat underneath. If Tata and MG are planning automatic gearboxes for a Fiat engine, why can't Fiat attach an automatic gearbox to 4x2 Fiat Multijet? Jeep should dilute its DNA inorder to survive in the market.
Only the Wrangler is a true Jeep so that is a moot point. The Compass is a heavily modified Renegade platform which is based on the 500X but that is not a bad thing and shouldn't take anything away from Jeep.

More than dilute it's DNA, they just need to rationalize prices which they themselves know were unrealistic for this market and the product.

When they came to India they didn't have competition, so they priced themselves in a monopolistic manner. Now that isn't the case.

The same happened with Ford but they did the opposite. Their introductory prices were simply mouth watering. They kept increasing gradually but competition came in fierce and they had to retreat and settle down.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 11th January 2020 at 13:43.
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Old 11th January 2020, 10:53   #57
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Default Re: Jeep Compass 4x4 Diesel AT BS6 coming in lower variants

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
I agree that Trailhawk to Seltos is not apples to apples comparison but the new Limited plus loses some 4x4 electronics but has more features like electric seats, rain sensing wipers and lights. I suspect this non Trail-hawk version will not be too far off from the Trail-hawk pricing. I would love to be proven wrong and see a sub 30L on road price.
Agree. Mainstream Compass has no business competing in the 30L+ category. NO subcompact SUV will sell at that price point in the current market.

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In this particular case I would have to completely disagree with you

Not in terms of comparison but the car itself. The Compass 4x2 Petrol DDCT 1.4L engine is 160PS on paper but has to pull a lot more weight than the Seltos. The Seltos is quicker and far superior in performance. Secondly the Compass 1.4L Multi-air engine is notorious for ridiculously low FE. We are talking 5-6kmpl in traffic. Thirdly the 7 speed DCT is known to be one of the most unreliable boxes. Probably worse than the Kia 7DCT. Fourthly the gearbox tuning is terrible and the Compass 1.4L feels really lazy and lethargic to drive. The Seltos is the far superior pick if you compare both Turbo Petrol's.

It's the diesel which makes the Compass shine and the package comes together.
Ageeed the Compass 4x2 Petrol DDCT is a half hardhearted effort. I simply refrenced it for a feature to fetaure comparison .

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
The whole point is for a crossover, the size of the Compass and a brand of Jeep how much people are willing to pay. The answer is definitely not above 30L and 28L being the upper limit.
Fully agree with you here. Price it anything more and Jeep can kiss goodbye to sales until end of BS6 when they are forced to clear stock at massively discounted prices .
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Old 11th January 2020, 14:19   #58
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Default Re: Jeep Compass 4x4 Diesel AT BS6 coming in lower variants

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ImThe 2 biggest problems for the Compass are interior space and price. Not the lack of features. The other problem was lack of a diesel AT. But even that won't work if the other 2 points are not satisfied. .
I do feel one of the biggest issues with Compass it it’s lack of features. Other than the very top trim (Limited Plus), none of the 2WD variants (even the Limited (O) did not offer 6 airbags. Nor did they offer Cruise control. There were many other misses in the mid trims, up to longitude optional, which were still pretty expensive. These were major misses in a premium SUV costing upwards of 20 lakhs on road.

This was one of the deterrents for me to pick up a longitude optional diesel MT last year. I know a few others who were having the same concern.

Last edited by 84.monsoon : 11th January 2020 at 14:21.
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Old 11th January 2020, 15:56   #59
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Default Re: Jeep Compass 4x4 Diesel AT BS6 coming in lower variants

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Originally Posted by swapnil.awate View Post
Off course late. But, few days ago we had an interesting thread on ‘cars punching above their weight’. This might be one more example just like what Skoda Superb does to Mercedes E-class. This will be as capable as X3, Q3 or GLC at a lower price.
Compass cant be compared to X3, Q5, GLC as they are a size larger and clearly a couple of segments above in every aspect. At best it can be compared to Q3, X1, GLA but people buy those germans for the higher overall quality and prestige value which isnt comparable in the brand Jeep. So Jeep Compass due to its mechanical superiority over Seltos, Creta, Hector, etc. can be priced (approx. Rs 4-5 Lakh more) in relation to these cars and not to compete with the entry level luxury germans which are often available at prices below 40L rupees due to discounts.

Last edited by 46TheDoctor : 11th January 2020 at 15:58.
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Old 11th January 2020, 17:42   #60
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Default Re: Jeep Compass 4x4 Diesel AT BS6 coming in lower variants

I was evaluating cars in 18-20L bracket and then had a look at Compass and Harrier. Seltos and Hector were not launched then.

Even though the Compass offers excellent ride and handling coupled with power, there is hardly anything else that it offers over then Harrier and now Hector. Even the expensive Longitude variant missed on a lot of things. Compass when launched was trumpeting the safety features yet the 6 airbags were available only on the 4*4 Limited variants, so much so for the safety .

Harrier compared to Compass offers a lot more value for money but the fit and finish of the initial lot was disappointing. The demo car which I took TD of, had its drive modes malfunctioning. Inconsistent quality checks put me off. This is a car which I would like to buy in AT variant someday. Loved the looks and ride.

So, I feel the biggest let down in case of Compass has been the Cost Vs Features that it offers. I always felt that the Option pack variant feature should have been present on the equivalent lower variant. For e.g. Features of Limited O should have been standard on Limited. Compass did well for over a year, thanks to virtually no competition and a bit too long in the tooth XUV. Now that Seltos and Hector joined the party, Compass consistently started losing the initial mover's advantage.

I hope FCA would not repeat the same mistake of 1/2 car policy of FIAT emblem and would soon launch affordable SUVs like Renegade and lower the pricing of Compass.

Last edited by neoonwheels : 11th January 2020 at 17:44.
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