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Old 3rd March 2020, 08:29   #91
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
Acceleration sees a clear drop at 110. This is not going to be the effortless highway cruiser with ample power in reserve that the old 3.2 was. That the likes of Fortuner, Innova Crysta and Hexa are.
Absolutely. The old 3.2 has brute power for highway cruising even when fully loaded. It also has adequate torque for pulling and overtaking on single lane roads.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 09:35   #92
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

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Originally Posted by ksgehlot View Post
On Order! I don't think so. I am a Ford Dealer, I know it very well.
As a Ford dealer, would you be able to share some insights on what drives ford to remove features from figo siblings and ecosport? Is it a customer preference to have lower variants hence ford thought of removing them? Or is it absolute ignorance by customers even after decking up their models? Or their car's bling falls short of rivals, and it is only when you drive ford you realise it is worthwhile?
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Old 3rd March 2020, 10:19   #93
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

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Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz View Post
Absolutely. The old 3.2 has brute power for highway cruising even when fully loaded. It also has adequate torque for pulling and overtaking on single lane roads.
The more I think about it, the more this seems like a deal breaker. The kind of performance that is being talked about is what we get from B segment cars these days. Endys tend to be self driven. Why would anyone want to put up with this after spending 40L? A large part of the appeal was the effortless performance at all times that the big 3.2 guaranteed. Ford has missed a major trick by not bringing in the twin turbo version. In this segment and in this price range, it was required.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 16:43   #94
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
The more I think about it, the more this seems like a deal breaker. The kind of performance that is being talked about is what we get from B segment cars these days. Endys tend to be self driven. Why would anyone want to put up with this after spending 40L? A large part of the appeal was the effortless performance at all times that the big 3.2 guaranteed. Ford has missed a major trick by not bringing in the twin turbo version. In this segment and in this price range, it was required.
One has to experience the new BS6 engine specially the 10 speed automatic transmission which Ford has plonked now. The gearbox and engine has been tuned so well that a new buyer will never know if he has lost something if compared to 3.2 five cylinder machines. Only the current owners like us can actually comment on the difference between the two machines and what we gain and loose with the new setup.

Definitely the bi-turbo will be the preferred engine in case that is launched in India but this one is not a downer at all. It is the engine and gearbox combo which steals the show.

BTW around 20 members/owners from our Endeavour group were invited by Ford to attended the new BS6 drive in Jaisalmer on 1st March. While most of us were 3.2 owners we really enjoyed the new Endeavour and it will definitely pick up in our market where people are more curious about features and fuel economy.
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Old 3rd March 2020, 16:46   #95
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

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Originally Posted by roby_dk View Post
While most of us were 3.2 owners we really enjoyed the new Endeavour
Would you be kind enough to list out the pros and cons, compared to your 3.2?
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Old 3rd March 2020, 18:31   #96
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

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Originally Posted by cool_dube View Post
Would you be kind enough to list out the pros and cons, compared to your 3.2?
Well I bought my beast in May 2017 and driven around 55k kilometers so far. It includes my city commute of approx 90 kms round trip from Delhi to Noida and frequent outstation trips. So far I am very happy with my decision and have zero complaints from Ford on service and maintenance perspective.

Here are the pros n cons between my car(3.2 4x4 AT) and New Endeavour (2.0 4x4 AT). Our drive comprised of highway drive of more than 40 kilometers followed by off-roading for a good time more than 3-4 hours which includes dune bashing where we experienced all modes and pushed the vehicle really hard.

Pros:
1. The engine is super silent and sounds more refined within triple digit speeds, hence a perfect city dweller.
2. Due to above point the already low engine noise creeping inside has been reduced further.
3. The new gearbox is miles ahead from 6-speed TC it doesn't struggle in the initial 0-40 like the old 3.2 and
4. Suspension is the another big improvement apart from gearbox, it definitely ups the luxury quotient.
5. It was way better than mine but few customers having the facelift MY'19 model felt slight improvement.
6. High beams being dual LED are much better than conventional halogens offered earlier.
7. Fuel economy has been improved significantly around 13 kmpl with speed within 110 kmph with 4 people.
8. Surprisingly with soft suspension setup the body roll is almost same.

Cons:
1. The acceleration is pretty linear and the growl/push which we get in 40-100/120 dash from 3.2 engine is lost.
2. The Adblue fluid need to be added every 5-6k kilometres.
3. The engine unlike 3.2 does not feel relaxed on triple digit speeds.
4. 3.2 could have fared much easily on off-road obstacles with high power and torque figures.

Would like to thanks Ford for inviting us especially Anurag Mehrotra(MD Ford India) for supporting and being with us throughout the event.

Attaching some pictures from the event:
Attached Thumbnails
The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-01.jpg  

The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-02.jpg  

The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-04.jpg  

The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-06.jpg  

The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-01_a.jpg  

The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-03.jpg  

The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-05.jpg  

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Old 3rd March 2020, 19:44   #97
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

Did the ford team share any thoughts around why bi-turbo was omitted for India? Do they have any plans to introduce bi-turbo in the coming days?
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Old 3rd March 2020, 21:48   #98
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrishig View Post
Do they have any plans to introduce bi-turbo in the coming days?
As per a local dealer, it may come around October/ November, but I think it can only be speculation at this time. It will all depend on the sales of this variant. One thing is sure; dealers are not happy with so much experimentation with a model that was consistently delivering good numbers. In private, they agree that continuing 3,2 with BS6 would have been a better choice.

I got a chance to check the new one today, as pointed by Roby, _dk, the engine is silent at idle, and there is no vibration. If you are not in a hurry and build the speed with a constant throttle, the combo works well. It's when you accelerate suddenly, and the engine sounds harsh. One can overlook this easily with some music in background. The gear changes are absolute jerk-free though I have my doubts on the practicality of 10-speed gearbox. Front suspension as well the brake bite seems to be better over the outgoing model.

Immediately after this drive, I got a chance to drive my Petrol Auto Innova & than I realised how crude is the Endeavour Engine/ Gearbox combo. Don't get me wrong, I know it will be wrong to compare a Diesel with Petrol, but something does not feel correct on this.

I think, FORD has lost the advantage it had over the Fortuner and if you can sacrifice on a few of the features like panorama roof/ car play, Fortuner will be a better vehicle.

Another important update is about the lack of new vehicles from both FORD & Toyota as a lot of child components come from China. So if anyone is looking for early delivery, better take a decision fast and book ASAP.
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Old 4th March 2020, 12:37   #99
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by varunswnt View Post
As a Ford dealer, would you be able to share some insights on what drives ford to remove features from figo siblings and ecosport? Is it a customer preference to have lower variants hence ford thought of removing them? Or is it absolute ignorance by customers even after decking up their models? Or their car's bling falls short of rivals, and it is only when you drive ford you realise it is worthwhile?
This is only a revision they have done to cut the cost of production. It's only a Few features that they have removed and only from Few Models. No changes in the Ford DNA. It drives better than all the competition and it still has one of the best safety ratings. And yes it's still worthwhile buying!
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Old 4th March 2020, 16:48   #100
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

Thanks to Ford India for giving an opportunity to a few existing owners to sample the Endeavour 2.0L on the dunes of Jaisalmer. Sharing my perspective from the drive:

The Good:
1. 10 speed gearbox is the highlight of the drivetrain. Amazingly smooth and seamless shifts even when it skips gears ensuring good performance by keeping the engine in the torque band.
2. Fuel Efficiency will definitely be better since the 10 speed gearbox is coupled with the lowered 3.55:1 axle ratio resulting in pretty low RPMs at cruising speed.
3. Manually selecting 10th gear around 90Kmph is possible which results in engine just ticking around 1300 RPM.
4. As experienced on dunes, option to lock out gears is a real boon.
5. The new 2.0L Engine is extremely silent outside as well.
6. LED Low & High beam are good.


The not so good:
1. AdBlue or Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF) tank doesn’t seem to have any protection and positioning seems susceptible to damage.
2. Since the engine noise is even less, engine fan noise (for the duration it is active) is more intrusive now.
3. More of a relaxed highway cruiser rather preferring to be driven in a spirited manner.
4. Fog Lamps could have been LED too.
5. Puddle lamps, though LED, are pretty weak.
6. Missed opportunity to offer SYNC3 latest version 3.4 which has upgraded UI and additional feature.

With a comfortable suspension setup carried over from the facelift launched last year and a vast feature list, the positives of the Endeavour 2.0 should result in good sales number for Ford India.

Sharing a couple of pictures

Hotel parking occupied by Endeavours
The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-endeavour-2020-1.jpg

Closer inspection in parking revealed the location of the AdBlue / DEF tank
The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-endeavour-2020-2.jpg

All LED Headlamps
The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-endeavour-2020-3.jpg

Lined-up for departure to the dunes
The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-endeavour-2020-4.jpg

Deflation in progress (look closely and you will find the protective covering near rear door glass is still there even after PDI)
The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-endeavour-2020-5.jpg

Slow motion video of Endeavour making a jump



With an Endeavour breached, this is how close the AdBlue / DEF tank came to the sand
The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-endeavour-2020-6.jpg

Final shot before returning back
The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-endeavour-2020-7.jpg

Tyre pressure being corrected
The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-endeavour-2020-8.jpg

Yellow Fog lamps not going well with the all LED headlamps
The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-endeavour-2020-9.jpg

The after event session
The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs-endeavour-2020-10.jpg
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Old 4th March 2020, 17:52   #101
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
As per a local dealer, it may come around October/ November, but I think it can only be speculation at this time. It will all depend on the sales of this variant. One thing is sure; dealers are not happy with so much experimentation with a model that was consistently delivering good numbers. In private, they agree that continuing 3,2 with BS6 would have been a better choice.

I think, FORD has lost the advantage it had over the Fortuner and if you can sacrifice on a few of the features like panorama roof/ car play, Fortuner will be a better vehicle.
Totally agree with this one. That advantage of having carved a niche for itself after some prolonged hard work is gone for Endeavour now. They are positioning it more for the mass appeal and hoping it will do the numbers. But clearly, it has lost the advantage it had of the gem of an engine over Fortuner.

Don't get me wrong. I know this is a great combo but single turbo? No. Bi-Turbo is what is needed for a 2.4 tonne vehicle to even match the torque band of earlier 3.2.

Hopefully you are right and they see some sense in bringing the Bi-Turbo back as a flagship at the top of the range and keep it even if it sells lesser numbers. Personally, I do not see what the issue is. Anyone spending 44 (Bangalore for old 3.2) would happily spend 45.5 for the Bi-Turbo.

More importantly - Why launch bi-Turbo all over the world, get rave reviews and then launch a shorter version of the same product?

But then, I am reminded by some well meaning folks that not everyone is aligned to my thinking.

And lastly, many are right, Ford's sole primary and current objective seems to be about chasing the Fortuner. Hence the measures to price below it. As a strategy, it is flawed. You can not be on the tail of someone and aspire to be a leader. I recall the poster of Alsaka Sled Dogs with a similar saying underneath. :-)

Last edited by nareshtrao : 4th March 2020 at 18:05.
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Old 6th March 2020, 01:42   #102
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Turbanator View Post
It's when you accelerate suddenly, and the engine sounds harsh.Another important update is about the lack of new vehicles from both FORD & Toyota as a lot of child components come from China. So if anyone is looking for early delivery, better take a decision fast and book ASAP.
Exactly my observation after driving it for quite some time during the weekend. When you hit throttle aggressively, vehicle struggle to get momentum and sounds really harsh. You can easily listen the annoying engine sound inside the cabin.

One of my friend booked it on the same day and the dealer now says tentative delivery date is April 2nd week for 4x2 and May 1st week for 4x4. Per him, they are not getting vehicles in diffused silver but he confirmed white is available.

Even after limiting the exterior colours to just three, if ford is unable to manage the availability then they shouldn’t be doing business here.
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Old 8th March 2020, 00:05   #103
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by roby_dk View Post
One has to experience the new BS6 engine specially the 10 speed automatic transmission which Ford has plonked now. The gearbox and engine has been tuned so well that a new buyer will never know if he has lost something if compared to 3.2 five cylinder machines. Only the current owners like us can actually comment on the difference between the two machines and what we gain and loose with the new setup.

Definitely the bi-turbo will be the preferred engine in case that is launched in India but this one is not a downer at all. It is the engine and gearbox combo which steals the show.

BTW around 20 members/owners from our Endeavour group were invited by Ford to attended the new BS6 drive in Jaisalmer on 1st March. While most of us were 3.2 owners we really enjoyed the new Endeavour and it will definitely pick up in our market where people are more curious about features and fuel economy.
Bang on. I drove the new 2.0 endy today and all I would like to say is " All is well". The marriage of the 10 speed gearbox with the 2.0 engine is superb. The suspension has been tweaked amazingly too. I am from the northeast so took the car for spin on twisty's and found body roll to be very minimal too compared to the old car.

Yes one thing I noticed is there was some jerks when speeding up or slowing down. I observed this in 2nd and 3rd shift. Not sure what it was but for sure it happened two to three times. Also addition of a bi turbo would have been magical.
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Old 8th March 2020, 08:19   #104
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

Going by precedent, Ford has always been mindful of Indian consumer feedback, and I expect them to launch the bi-turbo later during the year. There is really no earthly reason not to do it, unless there are other technical or positioning/ marketing factors which no one is aware of.
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Old 9th March 2020, 21:21   #105
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Default Re: The BS6 Ford Endeavour with new 2.0L diesel engine, now launched at 29.55 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz View Post
Absolutely. The old 3.2 has brute power for highway cruising even when fully loaded. It also has adequate torque for pulling and overtaking on single lane roads.
My best guess is even if Ford would have converted 3.2 liter engine to BS6, the quick punch at a particular rev range in BS 4 version of engines would have been tamed down to keep the emission under control. This happened to a lot of engines - one example is Compass engine BS4 vs BS6. But it is just the feel that is different. 0 - 100 sprint timing will be almost same.

Comparison data of 0 to 100 sprint between 3.2 vs 2.0 proves there is hardly any difference in terms of acceleration :

3.2 4x4 AT 0 to 100 in S mode: 11.37 seconds


2.0 BS6 4x4 AT 0 - 100 in D mode: 11.4 seconds
0 - 120 : 16.8 seconds


2.0 in S mode would even be having a better timing than 3.2 I guess. The data shows its the in gear acceleration at a particular rev range giving a sense of extra power in case of 3.2 AT.

Last edited by HotChillyPepper : 9th March 2020 at 21:25.
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