[shobhit.shri]

wow, pretty sure, this is the first time I changed my opinion after reading posts on an internet forum .


I voted not to buy flop cars, and I am not changing the vote now, but the arguments in this post are the kind of stuff that makes t-bhp my homepage!

[sohanangal]

Originally Posted by 2000rpm

[*]Imagine what comes to your mind when I say the following names - Kizashi, Vitara, Chevrolet SAIL, ARIA. These flop cars have a neutral / negative aura around them, even though these cars are pretty ok vehicles. Doesnt make my heart go, I want that car! [/list]

The Kizashi was a masterpiece. I have owned the Kizashi for about 6-7 years (sold it 2 years back) but it was a genuine beast of a car. It was smooth, had immense power and tremendous driving power. The thing that went against it was definitely the price. People did not wish to pay 20L for a Maruti 10 years back (maybe even now). Personally, I enjoyed driving the car very much. The manual shifting was also as smooth as I have seen on any car. The driving pleasure on the car was better than my 2011 Audi A6 (I know we cannot compare, but still...).

[Godzilla]

The Crowd is Right:

I generally value the crowd decision in most things. I strongly believe that there is a good reason why a car flops/succeeds.

Where does the crowd go wrong?

1. The crowd can be deceived as many don't have the time, energy or the intent to analyze all the options as much as an enthusiast.

2. The crowd can be swayed by frills, gimmicks and unnecessary features.

3. The crowd is less knowledgeable

Indian market is an interesting case study where great car brands with solid cars failed to make a dent. I feel, Indians car buyers lack the awareness about safety features such as ESP (Which was made mandatory in EU) yet they rave about a 5-star safety rating. ESP has the potential to avoid a crash (IMHO is as important as the number of airbags or crash rating). Seltos Diesel variants don't have ESP and no one even notices it


An Enthusiast's decision will differ from the crowd because of three reasons

1. More information to decide (well-informed)

An enthusiast has generally more information at disposal before taking a decision compared to the general public. This additional information and knowledge may push him towards unpopular (flopped) options.

2. An enthusiast has a taste- He/She is the market not to buy a vehicle which will go from A to B. They want something extra such as an offroad capability or brilliant steering or a track day potential.

3. An enthusiast will be aware of cars that are not marketed well.

4. An enthusiast to an extent can live with poor ASS as we could look at options beyond the dealership service center.

In my case, I bought the Nissan Kicks XV Diesel.


Pros

1. Great Value for Money- I got a 2.5 Lakh discount and Seltos/Creta with similar specs are almost 4-5 Lakhs more. Better car for a much lower price

2. Snob value- If I would have got a Creta, there are like atleast 10 cretas in a given signal.

Cons

1. ASS of Nissan

I strongly feel, as BHPians we should consider unpopular options and be more discerning. I listed down the risks of buying a Nissan and carefully evaluated them before plunging. For me, the benefits were greater than the risks.

[Nalin1]

What constitutes a flop car? The numbers sold?

The quality of a car or how good a car is has nothing to do with how many have they sold! The sales numbers is the last thing I will look at when deciding.

Why? Because I have my own brains .

Back in 2015, when deciding to upgrade the Verna to a compact SUV the Creta was the first one on the radar. I was eagerly looking forward to taking a closer look at it and the first chance was at Trident Hyundai service centre when I had taken the Verna for service. I was loitering around when I noticed a new car that had come in for service. It was a brand new Creta for its first/second service.

I could not believe my eyes that this is the new SUV from Hyundai! I had not even seen a picture until then and had assumed that it was something big and butch. But i20 was the first thing that came my mind!. Anyway as looks are subjective, tried taking a closer look at the rear seat width as a proper 5 seater was a must. But noway was this one going to fit three adults.

It was dropped like a hot potato that very moment.

The Mahindra Quanto is apparently a flop car. My cousin owns one. It has done 110000 kms and still counting! Absolutely no issues and a terrific car!

Do we need a better example of a 'flop' car that was a superstar other than the Skoda Yeti? Sure yes, they got the price>size ratio wrong. But if a four or a four and a half seater was fine and the budget not an issue, the Yeti had zero complaints. Plenty of owners have sung praises on this very forum.

Bottomline is that I would have voted an 'Emphatic Yes' on this poll if we had that option.

[tejas.negandhi]

Its a good topic and worth debating

India automobile market is quite unique and has a character of its own. There are a few car models which are hits or even super-hits outside but just do not work in India and vice versa as well. This could be because of price, lack of dealer/service network, fuel efficiency, etc.

I would be interested in such good models especially the ones which are quite expensive and available for cheaper rates. The only condition is the car should be serviceable and the brand is still providing support for the same.

For example Maruti-Suzuki is over-rated brand in India but certain products are just not great when compared with competition. Still they are the highest sellers in India.

Similarly there are many models (example - Nissan Kicks) which are flop in India but are great cars. Nissan Kicks is one car which I have driven quite a bit and is really capable and reliable vehicle but a flop in India. Its way better than Vitara Brezza or Duster. Its quite refined in terms of ride quality, fuel efficiency, handling etc.

[harishpr]

I have always purchased UNPOPULAR vehicles .
First was Tata Manza, followed by Ford Fiesta 1.6s, followed by Skoda Yeti, followed by BMW GT sport 330i petrol variant,. (In between I had POPULAR vehicles like Maruti Zen, Hyundai Eon, Honda Civic, Toyota Fortuner.)

Out of all vehicles, the unpopular ones scored maximum brownie points on road.. the BMW GT 330i is a petrol variant, but with 256 HP, it puts a big smile every time I drive.

[yash2424]

I had one of the first Hyundai Santa Fe's in India, while the car was excellent and much better built than the Fortuner, Maintenance was a pain. Once the clutch went at 40k kms, no dealer could get the new clutch right and the car became pretty unreliable after that. This was the case with some other niggles too, no dealer knew exactly what was wrong.

[RSM_TorqueZoner]

Oh yeah, I'll absolutely buy a flop car if it appeals to my heart, and as long as there are hefty discounts on offer that makes it super VFM. And I've done that!

I own a 2013 Fluence back in India, bought it used when it was just a year old for a very good deal. The car is among the most underrated to have ever hit the Indian car scene and was primarily a marketing failure from Renault. It might have a smaller engine for its size and doesn't set the road on fire, but the power is much more than adequate 90% of the time. The ride and suspension setup is among the best I've experienced and handles really well for its class. It's also super comfortable. Yes, yet the car just tanked!

I've no intention of selling it, and touchwood, maintenance has always been reasonable. Nothing major beyond the regular service, except when I had to replace the AC compressor, which again got covered under warranty!

A very unpopular decision among the masses and I can't care less! Will I go the route again? Oh yeah Absolutely, maybe a used GTI next!

[Nalin1]

Originally Posted by Godzilla

The Crowd is Right:

I generally value the crowd decision in most things. I strongly believe that there is a good reason why a car flops/succeeds.

Where does the crowd go wrong?

1. The crowd can be deceived as many don't have the time, energy or the intent to analyze all the options as much as an enthusiast.

2. The crowd can be swayed by frills, gimmicks and unnecessary features.

1. ASS of Nissan

I strongly feel, as BHPians we should consider unpopular options and be more discerning. I listed down the risks of buying a Nissan and carefully evaluated them before plunging. For me, the benefits were greater than the risks.

Very well summed up Godzilla! As you have rightly said, 90% of the car buyers buy a car to move from A to B. They do not have the passion, time or patience to do a research and decide. But we being the enthusiasts belong to the other remaining 10% category .

By the way what is your concern about Nissan service??

[nixie89]

Well, I couldn't stop myself to respond on this topic.Let me start with an apology if I sound a bit biased. I have owned a Grande Punto 90HP lower GC model and when it was time for replacement after 4 years of driving (read "some real long road trips"), I couldn't put my fingers on any other model than a Fiat and bought an EVO 90HP - again !!!
Someone rightly pointed out here that an enthusiast's point of view will always be different as he/she will be looking for things much deeper into the skin. Also, their buying needs are generally more structured and pointed.
I strongly believe not all popular cars are the best products or most value for money. Similarly, not all flop cars are un-driveable. Pick any car from Fiat line-up in India and they got a fan following. Ford Freestyle is another good product but hardly set the sales charts on fire. Kizashi, Grand Vitara, Octavia Combi, Micra - Pick any of these and you will find some very satisfied owners.
Bottomline - ASS, resale value, etc are important but driving manners, safety, handling and build quality are much critical factors while buying a car for me, doesn't matter if I get these in a "not-so-popular-among-masses" car

[low_rider]

Originally Posted by 2cents

Agree.. except in the strange case when the car is a flop on account of the high price. Price perception is set at the time of launch, and then no amount of discounts helps the model. Two cars come to my mind -- Ford Fiesta (the last version), Ist gen Jazz.

You can add the Yaris now.

[Godzilla]

Originally Posted by Nalin1

Very well summed up Godzilla! As you have rightly said, 90% of the car buyers buy a car to move from A to B. They do not have the passion, time or patience to do a research and decide. But we being the enthusiasts belong to the other remaining 10% category .

By the way what is your concern about Nissan service??

Thanks, Nalin

I am trying to sort a left pull issue with my Nissan Kicks. It is just that they are not at Hyundai or Maruti levels. I believe it will take years to build a good ASS. The foremost thing is the dealerships should not be strained by poor sales performance (which will never be the case with Hyundai's and Maruti's). The Nissan service center had a malfunctioning wheel alignment machine and they haven't repaired in a while. I am assuming that dealerships and ASS go into limbo when sales suffer and there isn't enough cashflow to keep the ASS top-notch.

The Area Sales Manager of Nissan is responsive, the dealership's Service Advisors are prompt but I am quite sure good cashflow at Hyundai and Maruti dealerships would have made the manufacturers demand better quality over the years.

Sid Lal, CEO of Royal enfiled once mentioned that the quality of Royal Enfield bikes have seen a dramatic improvement with the 650s. Can you believe, he said that the important reason behind is the sales of the classic 350s. In the early days the RE sales were paltry and RE had a tough time demanding anything from the suppliers because often they purchased very low volumes and some suppliers rejected RE due to low volumes. The situation turned around with the 350s, it was selling 40K units per month. This put RE in a place, where suppliers were fighting to get the orders and RE can pick and demand. This gave them the power to drastically improve the quality of newer models.

If I have the best resources would I open a Hyundai dealership or Nissan? Naturally, the ones with lesser resources/skill/experience gravitates towards manufacturers who sell lower volumes.

[theguardian]

Originally Posted by Godzilla

I am trying to sort a left pull issue with my Nissan Kicks.

Hey buddy,

Sad to hear this!

I also experienced a similar issue with my Kicks a couple of months ago. The service center, however, was kind enough and fixed the issue without any discussion; sharing the TeamBHP link where I posted my concern (hope it helps)

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-...ml#post4698804 (Everything about Wheel Alignment: Post your queries here)

[Tifosi2306]

For the market (media and reviewers), its a flopped car if it fails to set the sales charts on fire.

For the manufacturer, its a flopped car if it does not meet their expectation / intent. (Launching the brand, creating a halo effect or simply not making profits or numbers)

Its a flopped car to the owner, if he thinks it was a wrong decision and / or a bad experience.


Would you call a Fiat Palio, Punto or the Linea flop cars?

Yes, if the definition of flop is huge sales numbers and the fact that they cease to exist from dealer floors.

No, when you hear most of the owners appreciative of them and affectionately recalling memories or dearly missing them.

As a Fiat fan, its a great feeling to see many people write about Fiats with love. The management of the company was a disaster (globally as well), but it would have been a major feat and surprise had they managed to pull themselves out of their labour issues. Kudos to them for sticking around and providing the Multijet engine or the GTX and Tjets or the Abarths for enthusiasts.

When I got the Abarth Punto as my first car that I knew was flopped by most defintions,I bought it because liked it and the icing on the cake was it being available at a great price too. Met many car loving interesting people in the last 9 months just because of the Abarth via Fiat and Abarth groups on social media. Many interesting things I can tell my friends and children when they grow up and hey, we all love some exclusivity.

Now would that have happened if I would have got a Maruti or Hyundai? Who knows... I think not.


Here's wishing all the best to those who bought such flopped cars. Enjoy the exclusivity, the experience and be happy that you made a choice of your own distinct from others.

Enjoy this old advertisement which asks you ''Kyun na ek bar dil ki bhi sun kar dekho? Sab se alag ek raah bhi chun kar dekho''

https://youtu.be/ER-64u67H4k

[kiku007]

I have listed my experience from owning the below cars which weren't really sales hits.

1. Ford Ikon 1.3L Petrol
2. Ford Fiesta 1.6L Petrol
3. Ford Aspire 1.5L Petrol AT
4. Chevrolet Spark

The first two were bought with the heart and the second two were bought with the head. The FTD factor and driving pleasure offered by the first two made up for any shortcomings. The low cost of ownership offered by the latter two is what mattered to me and nothing else.

Pros:

• More bang for the buck
  • Save money due to discounts or free service packages.
  • Get a faster, safer or loaded car. Perhaps even a car from a higher segment.
  • Use the savings for mods.

• Exclusivity
  • In a world where people pay more to get exclusivity, you get this by paying less.

• If you had done your homework right, then you have dodged the herd-mentality and bought something that suited your wants. Be proud of it.

• Ward off borrow-requests from non-enthusiasts.
  • The only folks who want to borrow your flopped fast petrol car are your fellow petrolhead friends. Others won't borrow the fuel guzzler for their long weekend road trips.

• Less lucrative for thieves.

Cons

• Make peace with all the reasons why the mass-market made the car a flop. Don't go into denial. Review the reasons objectively before purchase.
  • It takes patience and persistence to smile and ignore the negativity from family, friends, colleagues and strangers. You'll start by explaining and slowly you'll stop explaining because it doesn't matter to you any more.
• Time.
  • You can't just drop the car at the service centre and walk out. You'll have to engage with service advisors and mechanics so together you can understand and troubleshoot any issues.
  • You'll have to lean on to car clubs and support groups to get advice or source parts.
  • You'll also spend more time to resell the car for a good price.
  • Even simple things like renewing car insurance can take more time because they won't have a rare car model-engine-transmission-fuel combination. I got issued an insurance quote/policy for a Figo Aspire 1.2L Petrol MT when I asked one for the Figo Aspire 1.5L Petrol AT.
  • You have to own it for a long time to realise the cost benefits.
• Never-ending discounts.
  • There's only one way the price goes and that's south. Be ready to accept the fact that the manufacturer will continue to increase the discounts.
• Abandonment by the manufacturer
  • The model will eventually be discontinued.
  • The manufacturer may shut shop.
  • The service network may shrink.
  • The nameplate will have a slow unceremonious death.
  • To add salt to the insult the manufacturer will use the nameplate for a relatively undeserving car.