[rajushank84]

I have been meaning to write about this for a while but have never got around to doing so.
My car enthusiasticism has taken a very specific and peculiar turn: the idea of driving something I would like to term “post-modern classics”.

My first driving experience was in one of the feelsome cars India has ever seen: the Zen MH410 I was ten years old and I had somehow convinced my father’s employee to let me drive around the block. I could hardly reach the pedals, but he was still cool enough to let me do it. Of course, I had no context to say anything about how good the car felt, but the experience was unforgettable.

Much later when I was old enough to get my own license, I bought my first car, an old, used Maruti 800 - with my own savings from salary!

Now these cars had a very raw feel. No power steering, no power brakes, carbureted, light-weight and fun. Very go-kart-like.

Anyway, fast-forward some 15 years from all this. I have been through multiple cars and bikes, and I don’t feel the need for speed so much anymore, as I feel the need for feel. Modern cars are a million times safer and I truly appreciate that. However, they lack feel. Steering feel is a favorite pet-peeve of mine. In the last decade I had the pleasure of enjoying some quite feelsome cars like the first-gen Figo and the E90 series BMWs. Both of these, along with the Maruti 800, will be my most favorite to drive.

I was thinking about some of these older, feelsome cars. Zens, Esteems, Balenos, OHCs and the like. There are countless more. Lancers and Cedias. Palios. Ikons. These are my favorites, I am sure every one of us would have older, modern classics that are close to our hearts.

So.. I was idly wondering, what would it take to quench this peculiar thirst and own one of these? Buying these is of course easy. There are many examples for a relatively low price. These aren’t priced as vintage, so they go cheap. But owning and maintaining one is a different matter.

Some factors play in my mind around this:

• May be a good idea to get one as a toy, perhaps collectible, for occasional use. But it makes sense to keep perspective that it can’t be a primary daily-use car.
• Not all of them are equal. Some are more expensive than others. Obviously based on the segment, but also based on the brand. I imagine it would cost a lot less to maintain an 800 than say a Baleno, and either of those less than a Lancer, and so on.
• I imagine it would take a fair bit of expertise to identify one in a relatively good condition. As always, good to take along a mechanic friend who can help identify.
• Probably makes sense to divide a budget into half for buying and another half for fixes and upgrades. Some of these cars would be sweet with a tire upsize, for example.

Of course, the biggest questions that would play on one's mind would be

• Where will I service it?
• Will I get parts?

.. and so on.

Also the particular vehicles I stated is just my taste. For someone else, this could be a Gypsy or a Willys or an RD350. For someone it can be the sheer passion of a two-stroke motorcycle. Essentially it is the same thing, to get a vehicle of another generation for the sheer feel it delivers.



The way I see it, this is just an expensive hobby, but I would rather spend 2 or 3 lakhs on something like this than say, an Interceptor 650. Different strokes, I know. Or to split it differently, with a ten-lakh budget I could either spend all of that on a Honda WR-V, or I could split it into say 6 lakhs on a Tiago for daily use, and the other 4 on such a hobby car like an early-2000s Zen.

So.. what do you think? A good idea to do this as a hobby? Do you have experience doing something like this? Do you plan or dream of doing this?

Myself, I see another 800 or Zen in my life. If you feel like sharing two cents, either talk me out of it, or talk me into it .

[Nissan1180]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

So.. what do you think? A good idea to do this as a hobby? Do you have experience doing something like this? Do you plan or dream of doing this?

Myself, I see another 800 or Zen in my life. If you feel like sharing two cents, either talk me out of it, or talk me into it .

Esteem, Zen etc are very easy to maintain even today. Lot of parts are still shared across the MS models.

Don't know about the Ikon or Astra and similar models where the manufacturer gave up trying to support customers long back.

We have an Esteem in Kolkata and the issue is that unpredictable repairs can end up costing more than the car, even if you maintain it well. Some parts are prone to failure over time, and they end up causing cascading damage.

[Nazaar25]

Thank you for starting this thread!
Even I am looking for a 'post modern classic car' like a Zen or Esteem and had the same questions in my mind.
As a BHPian mentioned above, parts for MS cars are still available so it will be easier to maintain than cars from other companies like Ford, Fiat, etc.

[Captain Slow]

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

Esteem, Zen etc are very easy to maintain even today. Lot of parts are still shared across the MS models.

Not so True, Most parts for the Esteem has been stopped. Common parts like engine parts are shared with the older swift 1.3L but some parts are very very hard to find. For Example, the Headlights and tail lamps for the Type one are EOL now.
Smaller body parts are next to impossible to source, Door Pads are EOL long ago.
These cars can not be your everyday car.

Ideally, you would need 3 cars -

1) Every Day Beater car
2) Classic or a Morden Classic
3) A Premium Car

[Nissan1180]

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

For Example, the Headlights and tail lamps for the Type one are EOL now.
Smaller body parts are next to impossible to source, Door Pads are EOL long ago.
These cars can not be your everyday car.

Depends on the location and mechanic I guess. A good mechanic can source parts from dealers and scrap yards easily.

Even MASS if it is reputed can help quite easily. It depends on the location, and the quality of the service personnel. Esteems command a high resale value relative to the age, and it is for a reason.

[GTO]

I guess my 1997 Mahindra Classic can qualify? It's incredibly satisfying to own & to drive. That pure mechanical + simple feel is endearing. What's more, a post-modern classic car is also rather exclusive on our roads, especially if well-maintained.

In terms of maintenance, she's been a breeze, thanks to two amazing independent garages who are able to get whatever I need. For some parts (e.g. ORVM mounts), jugaad comes handy.

Downsides are that they really cannot be everyday cars due to their age, basic creative comforts, performance etc. Ideally, you'd own one as the 2nd or 3rd car of the house for nostalgia or sentimental value.

Me & Blackwasp had taken our modern classics along when we went to watch the "Ford vs Ferrari" movie.

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

So.. I was idly wondering, what would it take to quench this peculiar thirst and own one of these? Buying these is of course easy. There are many examples for a relatively low price. These aren’t priced as vintage, so they go cheap. But owning and maintaining one is a different matter.

Depends on the car maker. Marutis are easy to maintain (cost and availability wise), while for Mercs you can source the parts (but they won't be cheap) and for Fiats, just forget it - even though I have a Palio.

I have a 15+ year old Maruti and my 800 will soon turn 15 as well. Both have been a non issue in terms of maintenance and expenditure. On the other hand, the moment I got my Palio (she'll soon be 18 years old), the servicing alone to make it road worthy costed me more than the car's value.

One more issue for me personally is the lack of comprehensive insurance on such cars. While cars maintained by enthusiasts will have a good cover, most have expired insurance (not even 3rd party when you go to buy it). There will also be issues like chassis number rusting or no green tax paid, so account your purchase cost for this.

But let me tell you honestly, they really don't make the cars like they used to make. Driving such cars is immensely satisfying. Infact, I have had nice conversations started when people saw me arrive in my 800 / Palio.

Originally Posted by GTO

Downsides are that they really cannot be everyday cars due to their age, basic creative comforts, performance etc. Ideally, you'd own one as the 2nd or 3rd car of the house for nostalgia or sentimental value.

The 800 is an absolute breeze to drive in the city. Gives good FE, can be parked literally anywhere, ample ground clearance and has AC as well. Infact, thanks to the 800, my Abarth is being driven lesser these days.

For me, cars from the late 90s to the mid 2000s are the ones I will be most interested to collect as unlike the vintage cars, these can be actually daily driven. If not long distance, at least in the city as well.

[rajushank84]

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

Ideally, you would need 3 cars -

1) Every Day Beater car
2) Classic or a Morden Classic
3) A Premium Car

Personally, I'd be more than happy with the first two .

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

Depends on the location and mechanic I guess. A good mechanic can source parts from dealers and scrap yards easily.

I'm curious to hear how this works, from people who own such cars. Do you go to a third-party multibrand service shop and they source parts?

Originally Posted by GTO

I guess my 1997 Mahindra Classic can qualify? It's incredibly satisfying to own & to drive. That pure mechanical + simple feel is endearing. What's more, a post-modern classic car is also rather exclusive on our roads, especially if well-maintained.

You totally get my vibe! Love your jeep
Although to be honest, me being partial and biased, all I have eyes for in that pic is that Maruti.

Originally Posted by blackwasp

I have a 15+ year old Maruti and my 800 will soon turn 15 as well.
...
For me, cars from the late 90s to the mid 2000s are the ones I will be most interested to collect as unlike the vintage cars, these can be actually daily driven. If not long distance, at least in the city as well.

Totally agree. I think if we go any older, it gets into a different feel.
Personally, it is about steering feel more than anything else. You don't exactly get that with say older Ambassadors and Padminis. And also 90s and early-2000s Japanese cars hit the sweet spot between reliability and an organic feel.

[Mr.Boss]

Originally Posted by rajushank84

I'm curious to hear how this works, from people who own such cars. Do you go to a third-party multibrand service shop and they source parts?

I don't own one, but had a discontinued model (Baleno) in past.

In my case servicing and part sourcing depends on the mechanic. If it is my old & reliable mechanic, my portion of job is limited to explaining him the issue and rest he will take care. In fact he don't return the car unless he is satisfied himself. OTOH with the mechanic at my hometown, I had to sit with him to diagnose the issue, sometimes get the spares myself and again sit with him until the work is done.

Choice of A.S.S or FNG depends on multiple factors. Cars like M800 can still be serviced at Maruti dealerships without much pain. But the other specimen like old jeeps, Ikon, Lancer is easy and cheaper to get it done from FNG

[Tgo]

The biggest con I feel is the cars that have poorly aging plastics. If not cosmetically battered, over time, trim clips and brackets fail leading to unwanted rattles and a frustrating ownership experience.

[ajaiD]

Originally Posted by Tgo

The biggest con I feel is the cars that have poorly aging plastics. If not cosmetically battered, over time, trim clips and brackets fail leading to unwanted rattles and a frustrating ownership experience.

I had a Ford Ikon 2001 1.3 EXi whose plastics faded badly "Was parked in sun always" and noises from the dash increased several folds. No matter what I tried could not get these things repaired. So by 2015 I sold it off and while it was hard to let go I am glad I did.

[Romins]

If you have a car with you already, it is really good idea to keep running it. I have a 2005 model Santro, which is very well maintained and running fine without any major issues. But buying a car from someone else and maintaining it may not be a good idea, unless you have a lot of money and time to spend. Definitely, your mechanic will make lots of money. RTO process is another headache, either DIY or through agents. So, my advice is to stay away from this project and spend that time and money on something that will bring you more happiness.

[maverick.munish]

I have a 1999 model Zen VXi, which has not been driven since the last 5 years. I did not have the time to get the RC extended for another 3 years when the 15 year period expired.
However I am still not over the feeling of driving that car and it is staying put in my garage since. Not sure if I would ever be able to sell it further.
That is the kind of emotion that the modern classics carry for the few of us born in the 1980's. Never easy to part with the vehicles that were out FIRST LOVE.

[KkVaidya]

The most Modern classic you can buy today is the Mahindra Thar (if they still have the last Thar 700 in stocks). You can buy a 40 year old Jeep design with modern mechanicals and warranty. You even get the required service support.
What more do you want

[avi_swift]

Assuming you have the time and money to indulge in something like this: definitely go for it. Not only you will get to relive the 'old times', you will drive something very uncommon and most people will turn to have a second look at you car. Besides, you car may also appreciate in value in future, who knows?

Back when I was in school, I saw a yellow Lancer (with a spoiler and gold plated door handles) and it looked just so sporty and fabulous. Merceedes E Class W210 had come to India by then, but I felt this looked so much better compared to the Merc. Since then, I dream about getting one but the condition of Mitsubishi India does not inspire any confidence at all. Besides, I'm in Delhi and owning cars more than 15 years old is almost out of the question.

The below picture is taken from the internet. Mitsubishi came up with a facelift after this model but I just feel that this version looks the best.