[blackwasp]

Indian Oil has signed an agreement with Cummins Technologies for bulk dispensing of the oil marketing company's Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF).

Branded as IOC ClearBlue, it will be used in Cummins' engines with SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction) systems as well as engines using the Cummins SCR systems. Bulk dispensing is claimed to reduce price of the product compared to pre-packed ones. ClearBlue will be available at select Indian Oil fuel pumps across India.

India will move to BS6 emission norms from April 1, 2020. Automobile companies are using technologies like diesel particulate filter, selective catalytic reduction (SCR) and exhaust gas recirculation (EGR). Among these, SCR systems require DEF, an aqueous urea solution, for effective reduction in Nitrogen oxide emissions.



Link to the Team-BHP News

[GTO]

Good to see IOC thinking ahead. We can expect to see all fuel pumps carry SCR top-up fluids, but the car manufacturers aren't going to give up this very profitable & recurring business.

1. They are going to time the SCR refill more or less with their service intervals. Not just for guaranteed business, but also for customer convenience.

2. You can bet they will warn car owners of severe damage if anything other than their own fluids are used.

Of course, as with engine oils, the after-market will catch up in ~5 years once the SCR-equipped cars come out of warranty periods & there is more knowledge of their systems.

[ajaiD]

Wonder what effects it will have to use with cars with Lean NOx Trap (LNT) such as Seltos. Can DEF help with the LNT requirement of high temp. "High RPM" burn cycle?

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by ajaiD

Wonder what effects it will have to use with cars with Lean NOx Trap (LNT) such as Seltos. Can DEF help with the LNT requirement of high temp. "High RPM" burn cycle?

I think you are mistaken. DEF is only for cars with SCR. It is a separate tank that hold DEF and is injected and burnt along with exhaust.

Cars with LNT (LEan NOx trap) have no provision to use DEF at all.

DEF is only for commercial diesel engines (trucks, buses) and large diesel engines which cannot work with LNT like Innova onwards.

[civic-sense]

Looks like one more fluid tank to worry about. Any idea what happens if somebody forgets to top up the tank? Will it damage the engine or just result in more emissions?

If the latter, then how do the 'authorities' ensure that the users are not 'cheating' the BS6 regime by not topping up?

[Stribog]

Hi, noob here and don't really follow. Is this for BS6 ready engines or BS4 engines needing to comply with the norms?

I have a Seltos, so is this something I should use?

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Looks like one more fluid tank to worry about. Any idea what happens if somebody forgets to top up the tank? Will it damage the engine or just result in more emissions?
If the latter, then how do the 'authorities' ensure that the users are not 'cheating' the BS6 regime by not topping up?

Yes - the Compass BSVI does have the adblue inlet I think. Trailhawk has it IIRC, so the normal Compass will have it too in BSVI guise. It has been in use in western world since quite a while already. Top-ups are at fairly long intervals (months generally), so not a huge worry. If left empty, it won't damage the engine, but surely will cause more emissions. The only way to authenticate is the PUC test. The car will fail the test if its carried out over a sufficient time duration & the Adblu (most known brand name) is not present in the tank.

Originally Posted by Stribog

Hi, noob here and don't really follow. Is this for BS6 ready engines or BS4 engines needing to comply with the norms?
I have a Seltos, so is this something I should use?

This particular thread is for a particular brand made by IOC & Cummins diesel engines. So first of all - its applicable only for heavy vehicles with Cummins engines. Tata's buses & trucks for example.

On a more generic level - the DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) is required on specific cars and vehicles that will be EuroVI / BSVI compliant. Not ALL cars & absolutely none of the BSIV or older cars will need it by default. Simplest way to know if a car needs it - look for a blue cap besides the diesel filler cap on the car.

The Jeep Compass BSVI needs the DEF due to the way FCA has designed the MJD2.0 and its exhaust for emission compliance. The Selts' 1.5L Diesel, does not need it. Like mentioned above, generally you'll see DEF used in larger & more powerful engines.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by civic-sense

Looks like one more fluid tank to worry about. Any idea what happens if somebody forgets to top up the tank? Will it damage the engine or just result in more emissions?

If the latter, then how do the 'authorities' ensure that the users are not 'cheating' the BS6 regime by not topping up?

Once the DEF goes below and you don't pay heed to the multiple warnings, the engine will shut down and not startup till you fill DEF. Just like how you run out of diesel, car will stop.

[ajaiD]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

DEF is only for commercial diesel engines (trucks, buses) and large diesel engines which cannot work with LNT like Innova onwards.

Right, you deducted correctly I was under the impression that the DEF would be blended into the fuel like they do in the case of engine oils. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Once the DEF goes below and you don't pay heed to the multiple warnings, the engine will shut down and not startup till you fill DEF. Just like how you run out of diesel, car will stop.

So is that implemented with DEF tank sensor coupled with ECU software? A software controlled ignition switch off? Must be, given that the DEF itself works on the exhaust downstream from the actual engine? Is it going to be a mandate in India (by ARAI?) to ensure the engine cut off with dry DEF tank?

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

So is that implemented with DEF tank sensor coupled with ECU software? A software controlled ignition switch off? Must be, given that the DEF itself works on the exhaust downstream from the actual engine? Is it going to be a mandate in India (by ARAI?) to ensure the engine cut off with dry DEF tank?

When you have a DPF and SCR you need upgraded ECU, upgraded turbo as well as multitude of sensors and modules along with the DEF injection.

All this ensures that when DEF runs out, engine is switched off.

[govigov]

I think I have seen these adBlue tanks in some heavy commercial trucks next to the diesel tank. Specifically, BharatBenz, if you see a BB tipper watch out for the adblue tank, it pretty sizable, larger than the fuel tank in my car at 60 liters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9v46-xjDrc

[smnrock]

There is a new adblue/DEF pump at IOCL fuel station near namakkal on the NH7. It's a bit more expensive at 72/liter. but ease of filling with a full tank option is a welcome addition for the people who frequent this highway. I remember getting 10 litre cans for 550, but as per the guys at the fuel station, DEF price seems to be increasing the last couple of months.

No more pain of finding a fuel station which sells adblue(95% of them does not know what is adblue), arranging a funnel and filling by myself

Location: https://goo.gl/maps/WLT2pdaKkj7ep2Jd7

[Stolidus500]

Originally Posted by smnrock

It's a bit more expensive at 72/liter.

No more pain of finding a fuel station which sells adblue(95% of them does not know what is adblue), arranging a funnel and filling by myself

At 72 per liter, it's actually cheaper than current dealer rate of 10 liter package which is around 750 now and MRP of the same is more than 850.

[smnrock]

Originally Posted by Stolidus500

At 72 per liter

Looks like price keeps changing drastically. Last October, Ford dealer charged me 120/liter. Yesterday, the above fuel station charged 56/liter.