[himanshugoswami]

Originally Posted by Ashu03

Hi All,

I have been a silent observer of this thread and other Tata Harrier thread, since Tata Harrier has been launched. I really love the car, they way it looks from both outside and inside. Now i am in bit of dilemma to buy this beauty.
Currently i have Mahindra XUV500, W10 AT. I bought this car in 2017 and it clocked 50,000 KMs till now. The overall performance is really good but it has started to show its age- design wise and Interior quality wise. There are lot of niggles and i just can't see that plain below par interior quality and design on daily basis.
Now i am evaluating options in the range to 22-24 Lakhs. I really don't need a 7 seater car. Now, should i consider Tata harrier, XTA+ model after XUV500. Will it going to be really an upgrade from current car? Are there small-2 niggles in Tata Harrier too, like XUV500? If someone has owned both cars, can they share their experience of moving from XUV to Tata Harrier and the notable changes?
P.S After driving XUV, i am not look at Kia Seltos or Hyundai Creta as an option.

Hi,

I owned an XUV 500 W8AT for 3.5 years and 85k kms. I have just picked up the Harrier XZA. So its early days as regards the Harrier, but here are my initial observations:

1. INTERIOR QUALITY- there is simply no comparison. The Harrier is leagues ahead in every aspect compared to the XUV. Even the leatherite on the Harrier seats seems to be of a better quality that the leather on the XUVs seats. The plastics are much better too.

2. INTERIOR LAYOUT- the Interior design has been a Tata strength starting with the Hexa and the Harrier takes it to another level. Understated, elegant, modern compared to the dated, weird and confused layout of the XUV (I hated that "wood grain" texture on day one, hate it to date!

3. SPACE- I would call it even stevens here because the XUV is very spacious in the first two rows and the driver seat (where I spent 90 percent of my time with the car) is super comfortable. The Harrier makes a strong positive first impression, but as I havent even covered 1000 kms on it yet, will hold off on my judgement.

4 BOOT SPACE- I will take the XUV as a 5 seater here, because that's how i used it almost 95 percent of the time. The XUV comprehensively beats the Harrier here as a five seater, both in terms of sheer space as well as ease of loading. that stunning coupe like roofline of the Harrier exacts a cost in terms of the boot space.

5. ENGINE- when I got the XUV, it set the standard in terms of engine GB combo. Today, against the Harrier it just doesn't stack up. I have also dirven the updated 156 bhp XUV, but the Harrier with its 170 bhp engine is perceptibly better, both in terms of outright grunt, refinement, smoothness and mid range. I would rate the Harrier's Hyundai GB at par with the Aisin GB of the XUV- Both are good 6 speeder TCs.

6. LOOKS- This really seals the deal. The Harrier holds its own against cars twice or thrice as expensive. The XUV just looks sad today. I didn't buy the XUV for its looks then, but because it was a very compelling package.

7. RIDE QUALITY- Dont know about the latest version of the XUV, but the one that I had felt just fine from the driver's seat but often my passengers complained of an unsettled ride at the rear. The Handling was neutral, bordering on a bit wallowey, especially around sweeping corners. Expansion joints unsellted the XUV at speeds above 60. The Harrier so far seems to ride much better and though I havent tested the handling of my car much, I really tested the TD car to the extreme over a span of 4 long TDs and was quite impressed by the way the Harrier rides and handles.

I have had a reasonably good stint with it, except for its weird propensity to drain out the battery post 2.5 years. No regrets with it. It WAS a good car, very reliable, and did the job well.

But the market has moved on, the the XUV in its current form cant hold a candle to the Harrier.

These are my personal views based on my experience with both the cars. Hope they help you in some way.

P.S.- I too agree with you. After an XUV the Creta/Seltos lot just doesn't work. As I had written in one of my earlier posts, I really wanted to like the Seltos, but having sampled the Harrier, I just could not buy a Seltos, even though it was significantly cheaper.

[Ashu03]

Originally Posted by himanshugoswami

Hi,

I owned an XUV 500 W8AT for 3.5 years and 85k kms. I have just picked up the Harrier XZA. So its early days as regards the Harrier, but here are my initial observations:

Thanks for such a detailed reply. They will definitely help me decide the future of my XUV500
Earlier i was planning to keep XUV for atleast 5-6 years but now there is this itch to replace it with Tata Harrier because of better exterior, interior, ride quality and list goes on. I will take the decision in next few days.

[kamilharis]

Originally Posted by Ashu03

Thanks for such a detailed reply. They will definitely help me decide the future of my XUV500
Earlier i was planning to keep XUV for atleast 5-6 years but now there is this itch to replace it with Tata Harrier because of better exterior, interior, ride quality and list goes on. I will take the decision in next few days.

Maybe you can wait for the Gravitas which will technically be an HARRIER with some extra space. Might not be a proper 7 seater but it can serve you as a spacious 5 seater.

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by ihrishi

I thought you guys will enjoy this photograph I took yesterday just before the lockdown starts again.
Still waiting for the official number plates!

BHPian ihrishi's majestic Harrier pic has been officially chosen and framed by Tata Motors Cars' Twitter handle:

Way to go!

[Ashu03]

Originally Posted by kamilharis

Maybe you can wait for the Gravitas which will technically be an HARRIER with some extra space. Might not be a proper 7 seater but it can serve you as a spacious 5 seater.

I believe the overall length will increase a bit but width wise it will remain same. Also, somehow i like Harrier's exterior over Gravitas.

Also, apart from Tata, is it recommended to look at Jeep Compass and Hyundai Tucson if i can stretch the budget a bit? These are two other options that i feel can be considered but not sure what additional value will i get by paying 4 lakhs more, from overall package perspective.

[Avinash_R]

Originally Posted by Ashu03

I believe the overall length will increase a bit but width wise it will remain same. Also, somehow i like Harrier's exterior over Gravitas.

Also, apart from Tata, is it recommended to look at Jeep Compass and Hyundai Tucson if i can stretch the budget a bit? These are two other options that i feel can be considered but not sure what additional value will i get by paying 4 lakhs more, from overall package perspective.

Compass is more 4 seater than 5 and the auto box isn't the one to go for. If u have family of 4 and u need a manual and love driving plus u need 4*4 sometimes, then the compass is a great car otherwise the harrier has it beaten.

[kamilharis]

Originally Posted by Ashu03

Is it recommended to look at Jeep Compass and Hyundai Tucson if i can stretch the budget a bit? These are two other options that i feel can be considered but not sure what additional value will i get by paying 4 lakhs more, from overall package perspective.

I don't think there are significant benefits if you are going for Compass over the HARRIER, especially now since HARRIER comes in the same engine tune. Compass like others have said, is better for a 4 member family whereas Harrier / Gravitas will seat 5 comfortably. And TUCSON might give you some exclusivity and comparatively better peace of mind , otherwise I don't really think there are any pros for spending close to 5 lakhs extra over HARRIER. After-all HARRIER is the newest of the lot and the other two are due for a generation upgrade in coming years.

[CliffHanger]

Originally Posted by Ashu03

I believe the overall length will increase a bit but width wise it will remain same. Also, somehow i like Harrier's exterior over Gravitas.

Also, apart from Tata, is it recommended to look at Jeep Compass and Hyundai Tucson if i can stretch the budget a bit? These are two other options that i feel can be considered but not sure what additional value will i get by paying 4 lakhs more, from overall package perspective.

It's easy to get carried away with the Harrier as it has become such a good package albeit expensive, but I would suggest be wary before you plonk in those 25 lakhs. Reliability and durability takes years to develop expertise together with relentless focus from the manufacturer, which is a never ending process. I really could not gauge where exactly Tata is in this curve, as up until some time back they were lurking at the bottom. Their very recent products appear to be put together better, but only the coming years will tell the reliability and durability aspects.

Also, while the Fiat engine could be reliable, it is mated to Hyundai sourced Torque converter and I'm not sure how extensively Tata has tested this combination, as if I'm not wrong, Tata introduced this combination as a reactionary measure when media wrote majority of customers who spend 20L expect AT.

I'm guessing Tata is making the Harrier AT customers their Guinea pigs.

The Harrier could go on to become a pretty reliable car as well, but currently it's a gamble, I'm not sure if I will have the peace of mind after plonking 25L, considering Tata's reliability record and how hurriedly they went to Hyundai to source the AT for the Harrier.

I sometimes get surprised by how, many tend to misguide because they love a brand or own a car from a brand or they want to support an underdog. So take a lot of opinion you get from here with a pinch of salt, including mine.

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

Also, while the Fiat engine could be reliable, it is mated to Hyundai sourced Torque converter and I'm not sure how extensively Tata has tested this combination, as if I'm not wrong, Tata introduced this combination as a reactionary measure when media wrote majority of customers who spend 20L expect AT.

On this particular point, I beg to disagree. The Harrier AT definitely did not feel like a rush job. They launched the AT Harrier over a year after they launched the MT and all the while, we were spotting test mules across the country. It was always in the plan and in no way a result of media criticism of there being only an MT - it is not possible even for warp speed companies to identify, source, engineer, test and launch a new AT vehicle in one year.

It is true they have sourced the auto box from Hyundai rather than a transmissions-only company like Aisin or ZF. However, Hyundai has proven to be an equally good maker of transmissions, and probably now make the largest range of transmission types today including TC, IVT, DCT, IMT etc. See below for the mid-boggling range Hyundai is capable of today, even ZF or Aisin does not have such a range of technologies. They have been investing smartly in in-house powertrains for 20 years and reaping the fruits now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...peed_automatic

The 6-speed TC AT has been doing duty in various Hyundai cars for many years right here in India, including the equally large and heavy Santa Fe. So the reliability is proven. All media reviews and even our early owners are praising the combination of the FCA Diesel and the Hyundai box as being a very good combination and very well tuned.

[CliffHanger]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

On this particular point, I beg to disagree. The Harrier AT definitely did not feel like a rush job. They launched the AT Harrier over a year after they launched the MT and all the while, we were spotting test mules across the country. It was always in the plan and in no way a result of media criticism of there being only an MT - it is not possible even for warp speed companies to identify, source, engineer, test and launch a new AT vehicle in one year.

May be it was always in the plan, but I believe a large part of implementing the plan went in identifying the vendor and materialized only when the Harrier was poorly received after its launch. I was trying to find some information on the internet on this as I like the Harrier, but there wasn't much available, and the little available did not give a good picture.

The Harrier AT definitely did not feel like a rush job.

The Harrier itself is one big rush job. Highlights from our review just last year -

• Feels like a work-in-process beta version. Several rough areas are yet to be sorted out
• Concerns over niggles & long-term reliability. Our test cars had many problems

Unfortunately, if you command 25 Lakhs you just cannot work this way, since Tata is an Indian brand, it has gotten away with it. Any other brand in any other country, would have had its death nails. Goes to show how immature a company Tata is and how it goes about to fleece customers in the pretext of being an Indian brand and trying hard to do well. I believe if you want to command a certain position, work your way to it, do not play the sentiment card or do a Jugaad like a LR platform, a Fiat engine, a Hyundai gearbox and what else, and try to fool people. If you still want to do it, at least test it thoroughly and do not have your customers as part of your testing plan as mentioned in the above points in Team bhp review, that is cheap.

It is true they have sourced the auto box from Hyundai rather than a transmissions-only company like Aisin or ZF. However, Hyundai has proven to be an equally good maker of transmissions, and probably now make the largest range of transmission types today including TC, IVT, DCT, IMT etc. See below for the mid-boggling range Hyundai is capable of today, even ZF or Aisin does not have such a range of technologies. They have been investing smartly in in-house powertrains for 20 years and reaping the fruits now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...peed_automatic

The 6-speed TC AT has been doing duty in various Hyundai cars for many years right here in India, including the equally large and heavy Santa Fe. So the reliability is proven. All media reviews and even our early owners are praising the combination of the FCA Diesel and the Hyundai box as being a very good combination and very well tuned.

This reasoning does not seem sound to me. A Hyundai car with a Hyundai manufactured engine doing well with a Hyundai gearbox doesn't equate to a Tata car sourced with a Fiat engine and a Hyundai gearbox, to prove reliability, unless you have done extensive testing for different time periods in different terrains and conditions, with the data to back. Can you imagine the kind of testing Hyundai would have done to all its products with all its components and engineering prowess in-house, and compare that with the Tata with what is said above along with its poor reliability record, and you can still decide if you want to plonk in those 25 Lakhs on the Harrier.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv

Yes, you are right but there have been one off instances in my other experiences. Here it was more of a rule than exception. I'm honestly not sure about other Tata car owners that would have had a good experience (and, Im sure there would have been quite a few). But isn't my experience enough to have a scar for a long time?

You have written at length about issues on you cars. I can empathize with your case. Rejecting a brand on its demerits is understandable. But, rejecting one because salesman didn't roll out a red carpet, is not. You will be surprised to see how many actually hold this as reason. It really beats me. In fact, I would rather prefer a salesman not bother about my presence in showroom, not even come to greet me and leave me alone. That way, I have all the free time in the world to check out the car, leisurely. Getting its feel and soaking in its appearance and proportions, without a salesman breathing down my neck explaining features I already know about, or asking my number or asking how fast I can book etc. etc. even before I could check out the car fully. Let's be honest. Who needs to know about specs and features of any car from a salesman these days when all this information is available at the click of a mouse. The only question we need to ask a salesman is about discounts and date of delivery, that is, if we have finalized that car. If you have done all the ground work at home on your laptop, you don't need to spend more than 20 minutes at the dealership to buy a 20 lakh car. That's my opinion.

[jetsetgo08]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

Unfortunately, if you command 25 Lakhs you just cannot work this way, since Tata is an Indian brand, it has gotten away with it. Any other brand in any other country, would have had its death nails. Goes to show how immature a company Tata is and how it goes about to fleece customers in the pretext of being an Indian brand and trying hard to do well.

May we know which car you would've bought if you had a Rs.25-30L budget as on today?

[CliffHanger]

Originally Posted by jetsetgo08

May we know which car you would've bought if you had a Rs.25-30L budget as on today?

Hey, let me be clear, I want Tata, or for that matter any brand, to do well in terms of merit in all or at least most departments. Not by saying, hey see my focus on safety, I care for Indians, hey see I'm bringing the LR pedigree for your 20 lakh rupee car.

When they launched Harrier, they knew it was a half baked Beta product. Why did they launch? When the reviewers could notice so many problems with the car and the buyers were knocking doors for help, wouldn't the management be aware of what they launched? Whom were they trying to fool and whom are you trying to defend?

There are several proven vehicles in the 25 lakhs space - the Toyota Crysta, the new Tuscon, Mahindra's upcoming generation to the proven XUV 500 and the Jeep Compass.

My only point is, let's not mislead unsuspecting buyers who come here for suggestions, with our love for the brand on the Internet, when they go and buy the car with 25 lakhs and live with it based on our suggestions.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by CliffHanger

When they launched Harrier, they knew it was a half baked Beta product.

Please define half-baked product. Please list out all that were wrong with last year's Harrier. I'm not kidding. Some senior bhpian coined this word and there everyone goes calling it half-baked. What is your opinion about brake and steering issues on Hyundai cars? Those are far more critical components of a car than some poor quality dashboard or switches. Yet, no one calls them half-baked. But one small niggle on a Tata car, and it's end of the world.

[amrutmhatre90]

Originally Posted by pgsagar

Please define half-baked product. Please list out all that were wrong with last year's Harrier. I'm not kidding. Some senior bhpian coined this word and there everyone goes calling it half-baked. What is your opinion about brake and steering issues on Hyundai cars? Those are far more critical components of a car than some poor quality dashboard or switches. Yet, no one calls them half-baked. But one small niggle on a Tata car, and it's end of the world.

Add braking issues in Creta which till now hasn't been addressed by Hyundai. Poor paint quality in Hyundai and MS cars lately. One wrong step by Tata, all hell breaks loose.