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Old 27th May 2020, 10:53   #196
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Autocar review is out for the 1.0 TSI.

The 3-cylinder unit is a strong performer. Snippet from the review:

Quote:
The 1.0 TSI is also a full second faster to 100kph compared to the outgoing DSG- automatic-equipped 1.2, and by the time you get to 160kph, the gap to the 1.2 is more than 6sec!
https://www.autocarindia.com/car-rev...t-drive-417412
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Old 27th May 2020, 15:59   #197
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Turbo-petrol Manual First Drive Review

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Old 28th May 2020, 02:54   #198
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by buntee90 View Post
How does it compare to Swift K12 in terms of engine ?
No comparison. The Suzuki 1.2l is smoother and quieter. Not a fair comparison as the Suzuki is a 4 cylinder motor. Out on the highway, you may not notice much of a difference. Around town, you will. Also; the 1.0 Tsi gets vocal when you floor it. Reminded me of the engine note of a 4 stroke Bajaj RE on full throttle.

I am surprised to read about superior power delivery of this 1.0 Tsi compared to the 1.2 Tsi. I found it acceptable and on a different level compared to the old 1.2 NA. The only thing left to know is the longevity of this tiny motor, now boosted with a Turbo.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 28th May 2020 at 02:55.
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Old 28th May 2020, 07:09   #199
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
No comparison. The Suzuki 1.2l is smoother and quieter. Not a fair comparison as the Suzuki is a 4 cylinder motor. Out on the highway, you may not notice much of a difference. Around town, you will. Also; the 1.0 Tsi gets vocal when you floor it. Reminded me of the engine note of a 4 stroke Bajaj RE on full throttle.
I was also really surprised by reading about the superior power delivery of the 1.0 TSI motor. Though it loses out in roll on times.

Last edited by ampere : 29th May 2020 at 07:18. Reason: Trimmed quoted post
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Old 28th May 2020, 13:19   #200
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Dear All,

I had taken the test drive of the Polo TSI (Manual Transmission) yesterday and wished to share my impressions of the same:

Things you will love:
  1. The engine: Pheww! A slight press on the accelerator and you shoot off like a rocket. The generous spread of torque spools up generally at low RPM's (around 1500 RPM to 1700 RPM to be precise). At no point will the car feel out of breath or will you have to shift to a lower gear constantly to remain in the power band.
  2. Manual transmission: I personally prefer stick shifts as they offer a more engaging experience. A common gripe with the previous edition of the POLO GT TSI was that it was not offered with a manual variant. But, one test drive with the manual variant was enough to prove that this gearbox combined with the little rocket under the hood makes for a potent combination.
  3. Ride and handling: The car handles incredibly well. The brakes have a good bite and inspire confidence. Steering feel is a little light at city speeds and but is quick to respond to direction changes and weighs up well as you gain speed. The car absorbs potholes well and the suspension is slightly on the stiffer side, but nothing too alarming.
  4. Solid Build Quality: Typical Volkswagen standards of build quality. Everything feels solid and well put together. Doors close with a well reassuring thump. Knobs and buttons do not feel flimsy and there are no squeaky parts.

Things you may dislike:
  1. 3 Cylinder engine: To be honest I could barely feel the difference between this engine and a regular 4 cylinder because this is that smooth. But that is the point. I could barely feel it, but still feel it. Minute vibrations can be felt on the pedals and the clatter at low speeds will gently nudge you at the back of your head to remind you that you are not driving a smooth and refined 4 cylinder unit. However, these could also be your own ears straining to pick up a sound. Put it at the back of your head and you will barely even realize the difference.
  2. Interiors starting to feel more than a little dated: This is not me nitpicking. But the interiors are starting to appear more than a little dated and are strictly functional at best. Mind you this is the top end Highline variant (The Limited edition TSI variant is the same variant with a blackened roof and side stickers.) The Polo TSI Manual variant costs almost 9.5 Lakhs on-road in Bangalore. For this amount of buck, i expect at least the following which are lacking in its competitors and even in cars a segment below -
    • The 6.5 inch touchscreen system looks a little dated. It is not Volkswagen's latest system. it is also fairly small when compared to the competition.
    • Fabric seats do not feel all that premium. There is a roughness to the fabric.
    • The arm rest (which is available in the Highline/ Limited edition variant but is not available in the more expensive GT TSI Variant btw) feels very cheap and is functional at best.
    • Instrument dials look dated. The new i20 (2020 variant) is reported to be coming with digital displays. Volkswagen calls the Polo a premium hatchback. High time they justify the premium tag.
  3. Rear Seat Legroom (or the complete lack of it): Common Polo observation. but has to be said nonetheless. My height for reference is 6'2. So take this section with a pinch of salt. Leg room at the back seat with the seat set to my driving position is non existential. Leg room with my dad sitting at the front the seat (whose height for reference is 5'11) was strictly below average. There is no mistaking that for all practical purposes this car is strictly a two seater. 4 seater at best for short distances. One commendable feature is the rear ac vents so your rear occupant can be cool while they are stashed like sardines in a tin.

VERDICT:

All in all, will I be buying this car? Most definitely. I'm a 25 year old lawyer working at a law firm situated in central Bangalore and occasionally undertake the long drives with friends (once in about 6 months). I have no rear occupants to worry about. This car will be used for my personal commute and will be almost always have only me at the drivers seat. A DSG would not have been of much use in the bottleneck traffic jams of Bangalore. In fact, it would have only contributed to the infamous reliability issues in the long run. Combine the manual transmission with the absolute powerhouse of an engine and a solo driver, and you have a match made in heaven. Sure, I could crib about the dislikes I have mentioned above, but this is a car you buy with your heart and not your mind. Will you get a plethora of additional features from the competitors? Of course! Will you get the same engine and driving dynamics. Not a chance in hell.

Therefore, if you call yourself an enthusiast and are looking for a hot hatchback to satiate your driving pleasure, close your eyes and pick this little beauty up. On the other hand, if you are a young family looking at this as a daily use car, look elsewhere. Practicality does not score very highly with this car. If you are someone who travels on long journeys, this will be great car to drive but not for your occupants to sit in for long periods of time. Therefore, consider your 'needs' versus your 'wants'. If you need a practical well sized hatchback with loads of convenience features and creature comforts and a functional engine with no frills in terms of driving experience, this is not the car for you. However, if you are looking for that 'pedal to the metal' experience and wish to surge forward in a sub 10 Lakh budget, nothing comes close to the Polo TSI Manual. Cheers!

Last edited by Akshay1234 : 29th May 2020 at 00:29. Reason: spacing
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Old 28th May 2020, 23:22   #201
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

The Polo falls behind on the in gear acceleration though two seconds behind the RS in this regard. This was traditionally a strong area of the VAG engines and they were usually class leaders in this respect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tejascshetty View Post
On the other hand, if you are a young family looking at this as a daily use car, look elsewhere. Practicality does not score very highly with this car. If you are someone who travels on long journeys, this will be great car to drive but not for your occupants to sit in for long periods of time.
Well said and one of the reasons I parted with my Polo GT TDI as well after three years. For this reason too, I am not sure it has what it takes to trump the Swift in sales.

A similar package though when the Polo was launched or even a few years later might have set the cat among the pigeons. If this is a result of Skoda driving VW group strategy in India then it is move though late makes complete sense.

Drive on,
Shibu.

Last edited by shibujp : 28th May 2020 at 23:39.
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Old 28th May 2020, 23:38   #202
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by shibujp View Post
Well said and one of the reasons I parted with my Polo GT TDI as well after three years. For this reason too, I am not sure it has what it takes to trump the Swift in sales.
Thank You! You're absolutely right with the comparison to the Swift. I own the Swift VDi (2017) at present, and though the outright performance is not comparable to the Polo, the strong diesel torque surely offers some level of driving pleasure. But Maruti has nailed the after sales service which has made my ownership experience of the Swift an absolute joy. The car scores high on practicality and features as well. No wonder people like me were willing to forgive the barely acceptable build quality and the same engine repackaged in multiple iterations.

If the Volkswagen group had only released the Polo TSI manual variant earlier, it could have caused some serious heartburn to both Maruti as well Hyundai which are currently ruling the roost. Better late than never as you said I suppose.

Last edited by ampere : 29th May 2020 at 07:18. Reason: Trimmed quoted post
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Old 29th May 2020, 00:59   #203
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

I test drove the Polo TSI MT yesterday and here are my impressions.

Background: I drive an year old GT TSI which I bought because there wasn't any other decent powerful hatch in the mass market at that time. I was forced to get a DSG when I would have been perfectly happy with a manual at that time (especially considering the cost savings).

Driving Impressions
Start the car and idle isn't any worse than most cars. It is not as smooth as the 1.2 at idle but if you are coming from a lesser car, you wont find any issue. Not as bad as some 3 cylinders that are on the market. Get going and it pulls like any other car in its segment, say a Swift or i10 that is under 2.5k rpm though.

Give it a bit more gas and it launches after that. Above 3k rpm, the turbo comes on full song and it pulls well to just above 6000 rpms. There is a much sharper "shove" that hits with the turbo as compared to the older 1.2. The speed overall may not be much faster but it feels faster thanks to this. In comparison the older 1.2 EA111 feels more linear and the turbo comes smoother. TBH, I prefer the old school feeling of the newer EA211 turbo but these are personal preferences.
The accompanying sound is definitely the major difference when pushing it hard. The newer 1L feels a bit coarse in comparison to the Fine noise put out by the 1.2 . The newer sound isn't offensive but isn't a very nice one either. The 1.2 sounds better, especially in S mode.
Gearbox
And now the major reason I wanted to try this car out. Finally a 6 speed stickshift in the Polo TSI. Only took them 7 years to do this


The clutch is super light and very easy to get used to(Mind you I hadn't driven an MT in months and I could drive it without an issue). The shift quality is above average. It is not as slick as the Honda/Suzuki Gearboxes that we all love but it is better than the avg Tata/Ford shift quality that I have seen . The throws are on the shorter side and the 1st and 2nd felt a bit rough, maybe that gets solved as the car runs in. The Reverse is slotted by pressing the stick in and then shifting the left and up. Was unusual for me to see that, maybe its a VW quirk.

The gearing is perfect for daily use. Feel lazy in the city? Stick it in 3rd and be happpy. Easily go from 20-70 in that. Want to hoon around? 1st-2nd-3rd can be made use of in legal speeds easily. Revs at 100 kmph is just around 2k rpm (in 6th), which makes it a very good highway cruiser. Infact it is the same rpm as the older 1.2 GT TSI

Conclusion
If i was offered this engine transmission combo last year at this price(There are offeres around 45-50k plus exchange bonus on the Highline Plus MT), I would have snatched it up over the DSG combo as I was too afraid to get it for all the Mechatronic issues that plague the DQ200. You save a cool 1.5-2L over the older TSI DSG and get the same performance with (most likely) better reliability.

The Twist
I say I would have bought it last year because if I were looking at a car now, I would have waited. But why?


Because as I have learnt over the past year, AT is a BIG, i mean BIG boon for driving in a city like Delhi. I have been able to sit in creeping traffic jams going uphill multiple times without having to move my feet, and its at times like those that you can't believe that you were going to by a Manual. What a stupid guy and the performance of DSG is unmatched (as long as it works ), none of us can shift faster than that thing. I have almost always felt that i was in the right gear no matter what the scenario was.

If your running is not that bad in terms of traffic and you want to still get a MT for then by all means go ahead and get this TSI MT, it sure is Fun to drive. But if you can wait a month or two, they will come out with the 6 speed AT too. While it is not going to be as fast as the older DSG, it is still going to be mated to this potent engine, so I think it should be very potent to drive as well. I'm happy for the fact that they finally have both the options for one to choose from.

P.S. The ride and handling felt mostly similar to the older 1.2 TSI, but the newer car did feel a bit tighter in handling for what its worth.

Last edited by agambhandari : 29th May 2020 at 01:00.
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Old 29th May 2020, 01:27   #204
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

My father will be looking for a premium hatchback mostly for city use and for short highway rides and will most probably be brought in the last quarter of 2020 or first quarter 2021 mainly for city use and it clearly comes out to polo vs altroz.

The scales are tilting in favour of polo, it has everything that fulfills our use :-
1.) Powerful Engine - Check
2.) Cruise Control - Check
3.) Apple Car Play - Check
4.) Manual Gearbox - Check (6- speed is an added goody)
5.) Great build quality - Check ( Sole reason against Marutis)
6.) Excellent Service Center - Check ( We also have an Ameo and the service experience has been excellent, much better that the Hyundai's and Maruti's atleast in Vadodara. Also the service costs have been quite less, in the ballpark of 10-15k, once a year and our Ameo has done 55000Kms in just 3 years.

With this 1.0 Tsi engine combo with a manual gearbox Volkswagen has just knocked the ball out of the park, especially for us.

The only con is rear seat space and that is not also too big a a concern, as mostly it will be just my mom and dad, and everyone in our family is below 5'10.

Altroz is also an excellent but we had a very bad booking experience while we were looking for Harrier and this has put my mum up the ante against getting a Tata car.

I have got to say even after 10 years Polo is just a great car.

Ps:- You just cannot imagine of all one touch up and down power windows. This one feature that my father sorely misses in the Hector, which is present in the Ameo. On a warm day just open the window using the key before entering and after entering you can just roll up the windows in a sec. TADA. Once you buy a Volkswagen you just cannot leave the brand.
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Old 29th May 2020, 02:36   #205
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
I was too afraid to get it for all the Mechatronic issues that plague the DQ200.
Wasn't the plague more of perception than reality? I thing that, whilst the DSG will be mourned, there will be better sales with this new gear box.

I wonder about 6th! I guess it is for loooong, smoooth, highway drives. I wonder how often it will be used. Mostly a city driver, I seldom get into 5th.
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Old 29th May 2020, 03:17   #206
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
I wonder about 6th! I guess it is for loooong, smoooth, highway drives. I wonder how often it will be used. Mostly a city driver, I seldom get into 5th.
Even with an anemic 1.2 MPI, the car could use a sixth gear. I can't remember exactly but I believe 100kph comes in on my car at over 2500 rpm (might even be closer to 3000) - and it's pretty loud at that engine speed! I should add that these long smooth highways were all in TN!
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Old 29th May 2020, 05:54   #207
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
Even with an anemic 1.2 MPI, the car could use a sixth gear.
I agree with McLaren Rulez here. 100kph comes around the 2900RPM mark. Kill the music and wind noise, the engines industrial note isn't that bearable over long durations

Last edited by ampere : 29th May 2020 at 07:19. Reason: Trimmed quoted post
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Old 29th May 2020, 09:40   #208
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez View Post
. I can't remember exactly but I believe 100kph comes in on my car at over 2500 rpm (might even be closer to 3000) - and it's pretty loud at that engine speed!
Engine noise is almost non existent or not intrusive at cruising speed. A slight thrum, if you really listen. The 3 cylinder bit is noticed only when you go hard on the throttle. This engine is poles apart compared to the old 1.2NA.

The engine specification suggests it is running close to the International Polo R Line spec tune. Loses out on torque for some reason. Else the engine is rated up to 200nm torque(2000-3500rpm) with a dsg gearbox.
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Old 29th May 2020, 11:15   #209
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

I am looking to buy a hatch/compact sedan by end of this year under lease. Polo was never in my list since it came with DSG. But the torque converter has changed things. I have shortlisted few others like Amaze CVT/Swift AMT.. Also hoping Ford relaunches Figo AT. Polo ticks everything right now but the car is 10 years old and I am sure VW will pull the plug soon. Unless there are good discounts I am little hesitant on putting money on Polo.
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Old 29th May 2020, 12:08   #210
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Default Re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by buntee90 View Post
Though it loses out in roll on times.
While roll on times are considered more relevant, the way they are measured is a sham in my opinion.

A GT TSI (DSG) has short gears because of 7 squeezed in, therefore the roll on times appear to be good, while then it is not apples to apples comparison 20-80 in 3rd, this 3rd was like 2.5 of any other car!

The new TSI, with 6 speed is ought to be losing on that.

I guess some car enthusiasts community created stereotypes need to go! 4 cylinder is always better than 3, Electronic power steering = bad, cornering is the only handling, etc.
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