Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th February 2020, 12:48   #16
BHPian
 
venkateshkm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 66
Thanked: 36 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Not sure how the non GT models will be specced. If it is 1.0L TSI with 6speed manual and 6 speed TC as options from the entry level variant itself then the Comfortline variant will be interesting. A real good engine, with TC will draw crowds from the Baleno and Glanza buyers list. The Altroz could be affected too.
venkateshkm is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 8th February 2020, 13:03   #17
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Delhi
Posts: 39
Thanked: 46 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Mass market cares about 3 things in a premium hatch: FE, VFM and space.Now, Polo can't do much about the FE (I think petrol is like 17 in manual 1 liter) and space(285 liter boot) but modern features alongside a price decrease might offset it.

Of course I don't think it will bother Baleno any time soon but i20 might see some competition. Especially from people who buy i20 because of its better performance to Baleno.
Driving80kph is offline  
Old 8th February 2020, 13:10   #18
BHPian
 
AMG Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: BLR
Posts: 659
Thanked: 3,157 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

An MT would bring down costs and improve reliability? Seriously? The Head of Passenger cars in VW realises this after 10 years??

VW are a long way from cracking India and are still in trial and error mode after such a long time and with this approach they will continue to be in trial and error mode for a very long time to come.

VW's ONLY USP in India have been cars with performance and now with the reduction to 1.0 they are working hard to remove that too.

The sad bit is they're trying to drag Skoda along with them too!
AMG Power is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 8th February 2020, 13:10   #19
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 16,290
Thanked: 29,923 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by TSIVTEC View Post
So the extra 10bhp and torque would be used up by the TC gearbox itself so I suppose,it would still be as quick as the1.2TSI but not faster.Does this mean the new Karoq,A8 gen Octavia,T-Roc, Vision-IN,Taigun would be offered with the 7speed DQ381 gearbox?
Karoq will come with DQ200 since torque is lesser than 250Nm.

The DQ381 will be in Kodiaq TSI, Superb 2.0L TSI and VW Tiguan Allspace since that produces more torque.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F150 View Post
I am waiting for Koraq 1.5 TSI + DSG.
Coming in April. Covered here: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...po-2020-a.html
Vid6639 is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 8th February 2020, 14:00   #20
BHPian
 
petrol_power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Bangalore/TVM
Posts: 213
Thanked: 247 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Good news. My DQ200 in the GT TSi started showing symptoms like lack of any accelerator input response for initial 5 seconds while starting (randomly). And since these are random acts, I am not able to replicate it in dealership. After escalating the issue to VW also, they are least bothered. It seems they will change the gearbox only after I am stranded and show the proof. I am keeping an eye for new launches as I have lost the trust in this car. I don't want to be stranded in some deserted area while going for outstation trips. Best case is to use this car as a city car (so that I can get some Ola/UBER once car dies down) and use a reliable car for outstation trips.

Already I have other issues like oil pump sound etc. Atleast one less reason to fight with VW service team, for new customers.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 8th February 2020 at 19:09. Reason: Typos.
petrol_power is offline   (8) Thanks
Old 8th February 2020, 14:24   #21
GTO
Team-BHP Support
 
GTO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 57,409
Thanked: 161,125 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Wondering if the move from VAG 1.0 -> 2.0 is actually 1.0 -> 0.0 .

In the last 5 years or so:

- The MQB platform lost that "famed" solid build quality. Case in point = Jetta's build vs Octavia's.

- 1.8 TSI being phased out & replaced by 1.4 TSI (including in the Audis!!!).

- Diesel Octavia came with a cheapened torsion beam rear suspension, compared to 1.8 TSI's multi-link.

- Weak 1.2L n/a petrol replaced by a lame 1.0L petrol (Polo).

- The beautiful 2.0L diesel isn't going to be BS6-ready in time for the deadline. Meaning, the big cars will lose substantial sales numbers.

- Audi's line up is looking so lame with missing engine options (or under-powered ones), FWD only (no AWD), overpriced tags (new A8). Audi India is a shadow of its former self & has lost about 40% of its annual sales (compared to earlier years).

- 1.5L diesels being discontinued.

- Keep on selling the old Polo here while the next-gen has been released internationally.

Although, I won't cry over the Polo DSG's demise due to its poor reliability record.

Last edited by GTO : 8th February 2020 at 14:39.
GTO is offline   (35) Thanks
Old 8th February 2020, 14:38   #22
Team-BHP Support
 
Vid6639's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 16,290
Thanked: 29,923 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post

- 1.8 TSI being phased out & replaced by 1.4 TSI (including in the Audis!!!).
There are a few upsides as well:

- 2.0L TSI replacing 1.8L TSI in premium Skoda and VW cars like the Superb, Tiguan and Kodiaq.

- Much more reliable DSG's like the DQ381 and DQ500 in the upcoming superb and Kodiaq.

- Proper VRS variants of the Octavia finally!

But yeah they are basically looking at reducing costs heavily and increase market share not look at the erstwhile glory of their cars.
Vid6639 is offline   (17) Thanks
Old 8th February 2020, 15:31   #23
BHPian
 
nisshith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Noida
Posts: 39
Thanked: 68 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

I hope they refresh interiors and add some features in Polo GT as well. Polo may have timeless design on exterior but interiors leaves a lot to be desired. Unless it gets updated I don't see people flipping from Hyundai and Maruti. VW will be left with few takers.

Only making the car cheaper will not do the trick, Polo is a great example.
nisshith is offline   (6) Thanks
Old 8th February 2020, 15:50   #24
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 66
Thanked: 106 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by nisshith View Post
I hope they refresh interiors and add some features in Polo GT as well. Polo may have timeless design on exterior but interiors leaves a lot to be desired. Unless it gets updated I don't see people flipping from Hyundai and Maruti. VW will be left with few takers.

Only making the car cheaper will not do the trick, Polo is a great example.
Exactly. Especially since Hyundai is gonna launch their NextGen i20 with 1.0 TGDi 120PS (6M&7DCT). If they tastefully style the upcoming i20 (sketches seems good) and improve ride and handling (Hyundai getting better with their newer models), Polo will surely feel Old (it is, in fact) when pitted against the feature packed Korean.
sechebe is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 8th February 2020, 15:55   #25
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Chennai
Posts: 456
Thanked: 879 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

I actually agree with the plan of bringing in the 6 speed Torque converter GB. The whole point of having an automatic car is to drive in peak traffic without worrying about anything and that is one thing the DSG can't guarantee. There is absolutely zero confidence in running a DQ200 equipped car for more than 5 years.

Besides, the only place a DSG performs really well is on the open road where a manual can be far more pleasurable to drive!

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 8th February 2020 at 19:06. Reason: Typos.
Turbohead is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 8th February 2020, 16:37   #26
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: MH43 to KA50
Posts: 423
Thanked: 809 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Rather than call the move regressive, I'd rather term it downsizing - globally the 1.2 TSI has been replaced with 1.0 TSI and in its higher state of tune it is actually more powerful than 1.2 TSI. I hope it marginally improves FE whilst delivering the same (atleast) performance.

Losing a cylinder and with it, some refinement is a bigger concern than just losing displacement.

That said, six speed manual and a TSI looks like a pipe dream coming true after a long time.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 8th February 2020 at 19:05. Reason: Punctuation.
GeeTee TSI is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 8th February 2020, 17:24   #27
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Vizag
Posts: 2,252
Thanked: 2,149 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

I would say smart move. I drove couple of VW/Skoda DSGs and wasn't really as impressed as some users are. Sure, the shift-times are mili-seconds faster than a TC but the advantage seemed lost in bumper-to-bumper traffic where they jerked. Not as bad as AMTs but certainly not TC-smooth. And, b-to-b traffic is where an AT car is supposed to shine. And, then, there is that constant fear of break-down. I say good. Better to have a worry-free driving experience and ownership. First Ford and now VW.
pgsagar is offline   (9) Thanks
Old 8th February 2020, 17:38   #28
Senior - BHPian
 
kiku007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,930
Thanked: 2,967 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

2008 - VW announced they'll launch Polo in India.

2010 (February to be precise) - VW launched the Polo in India.

2013 - VW launched the Polo 1.2TSI with DSG at around 8L.

2020 (February to be precise) - VW announced the replacement of the 1.2L TSI+DSG with a 1.0 TSI + TC AT.

And this is supposed to help sell a 10-year-old model?
kiku007 is offline   (4) Thanks
Old 8th February 2020, 20:44   #29
BHPian
 
smileline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Pune
Posts: 72
Thanked: 84 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Are manufacturers realising the issues with the dual clutch automatics, in Indian conditions, first it was the Ford, and now Volkswagen. Both switching from dual clutch automatics to torque converters.

Whereas Hyundai and Kia introducing DCT's. With Already a few issues being reported.
smileline is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 9th February 2020, 01:02   #30
SLK
Senior - BHPian
 
SLK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: DL XX XX XXXX
Posts: 1,418
Thanked: 376 Times
Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

There was this statement made by Skoda/ VW India chief that their cars are over-engineered compared to competition which doesn't help compete in this market.

What they fail to realise is that whatever cars they sell, is only because of their over-engineering and not because their customers are an economically high-end section of the society.

The outgoing and comparatively pricey Octavia has also been outselling all others in the segment only because of its edge in engineering (read better engine and gearbox).

I have both the Polo GT Tsi and the Octavia 1.8 with the DQ200, and this news scares me. Not just because this indicates VW/Skoda trying to get rid of DQ200, but also a company which had the courage to put forward exceptional cars in this market is trying to lower its level of offering to compete with mass market players.

What they also don't realise is that those players are very strong in their own space and VW/Skoda losing their sole advantage will mean their loss and not gain!

On a separate note, almost all reviews talk about DQ200 in general as if its only sold in one form. I have 2 cars with the DQ200 and there is a clear difference in how it behaves with the Octavia (quick and sensitive) vs the Polo. And the difference is so pronounced that I always drive the polo in manual and always drive the Octavia in auto (D). SO, a good TC in a polo might just improve its drivability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smileline View Post
Are manufacturers realising the issues with the dual clutch automatics, in Indian conditions, first it was the Ford, and now Volkswagen. Both switching from dual clutch automatics to torque converters.

Whereas Hyundai and Kia introducing DCT's. With Already a few issues being reported.
More than just Indian conditions, these are complex boxes and untrained Valets, Parking-waalla, Drivers, Owners, etc. do create a lot more complications.

Last edited by SLK : 9th February 2020 at 01:18.
SLK is offline   (11) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2020, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks