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Old 9th February 2020, 08:28   #31
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

There's a reason why about 1,800 people buy the most expensive car in the segment with the least amount of space and features that's a decade old every month.

It's that engine+gearbox+build quality that no other car in its segment can offer.

VW might want to do a Kia here and offer two different gearbox+engine variants like in the Seltos.
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Old 9th February 2020, 09:04   #32
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by pannags View Post
--The 2.0 strategy seems to be well though out, not only to address major reliability concerns, but to control costs as well.
Wondering if this signals the end of DCTs in the upper middle class segment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
-- If so, future MQB A0 IN products like the Taigun may be getting this TC unit instead of the DSG.
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Originally Posted by smileline View Post
Are manufacturers realising the issues with the dual clutch automatics, in Indian conditions, first it was the Ford, and now Volkswagen. Both switching from dual clutch automatics to torque converters. --.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS8939 View Post
--
It's that engine+gearbox+build quality that no other car in its segment can offer.
VW might want to do a Kia here and offer two different gearbox+engine variants like in the Seltos.
For the 'India 2.0' project, the SUV's from the group TAIGUN and VISION IN will have the top-end Taigun/ Vision IN, which gets a 130hp 1.5 TSI engine, will retain the 7-speed DSG gearbox for a more performance-oriented driving experience.

It is only for the current products ( Polo/Vento/Rapid) the DCT will be elusive and only offered in MT and 6AT configurations.


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Old 9th February 2020, 12:15   #33
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't this a global replacement? Hasn't VAG already stopped selling its 1.8 TSI engines and replaced with 2.0 TSI globally? Same with 1.0 TSI replacing 1.2 TSI and 1.5 TSI replacing 1.6 TDI diesels. I don't think this is restricted to India alone. VAG group as a whole are moving to "cleaner" and more fuel efficient engines. Yes, while DSG will be given a miss in the lower end of the group's offerings, it should still be offered in the higher segments. So essentially, DQ200 has been done away with.
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Old 9th February 2020, 13:19   #34
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Since we are talking about engines there is still confusion on Taigun/Skoda SUV coming with a diesel or not.

This says :- The VW Taigun and the Skoda SUV will be coming in diesel engines.

but this says:- absence of a diesel engine option
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Old 9th February 2020, 13:43   #35
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by Brishti View Post
Since we are talking about engines there is still confusion on Taigun/Skoda SUV coming with a diesel or not.

This says :- The VW Taigun and the Skoda SUV will be coming in diesel engines.

but this says:- absence of a diesel engine option
No confusion on Taigun/Vision IN. Only TSI engines for those SUV's. Broad specs have been outlined already.

VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT-11.png
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Old 9th February 2020, 14:18   #36
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by nisshith View Post
I hope they refresh interiors and add some features in Polo GT as well. Polo may have timeless design on exterior but interiors leaves a lot to be desired. Unless it gets updated I don't see people flipping from Hyundai and Maruti. VW will be left with few takers.

Only making the car cheaper will not do the trick, Polo is a great example.
They cannot re-design the interior of the polo sold in India. The design has been discontinued 3 years ago internationally and the entire design team has been long disbanded and now working on cars two generations ahead. Even the blueprints are probably archived and in deep storage. Add to that, they never bestowed the Indian team with capabilities to do changes in the interior. The Indian team was probably thought only on how to re-design fenders and taillights. The highest level of education they had was how to chop off the boot of the Vento in an ugly way to get to the Ameo
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Old 9th February 2020, 18:58   #37
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
For the 'India 2.0' project, the SUV's from the group TAIGUN and VISION IN will have the top-end Taigun/ Vision IN, which gets a 130hp 1.5 TSI engine, will retain the 7-speed DSG gearbox for a more performance-oriented driving experience.
Something like this:

Taigun - Trendline & Comfortline - 1.0 TSI with a TC AT

Taigun - Highline & Highline + - 1.5 TSI with the DSG

I would surely love to have a conventional AT with all Bells and whistles on a VW. The biggest deterrent for many is the dubious service experience!
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Old 10th February 2020, 10:57   #38
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Would be interesting to see how their Marketing team would get the message out in public. BHPians and other enthusiasts who are actively following automotive news will be aware of such changes. But the general buyers who have been exposed to negative reviews of DSG Box through numerous social media portals, might need a lot more of targeted communication to get interested in VAG cars again. Also they should be very clear if this will have a positive impact on service costs.
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Old 10th February 2020, 11:30   #39
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Prebook for the latest edition of "How to Kill a Brand" by VW/Audi/Skoda. Some of the nuggets from this book are
1. Make sure the Indian version is substandard
2. Price at premium for the features offered.
3. Make sure ASS is really PIA
4. Remove premium features from the already less selling cars and make sure there is no differentiator with the best selling ones in India.
5. Close the product in India and blame the Indians.
Pro Tip: Cheat globally on emissions and act innocent when caught.
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Old 10th February 2020, 11:33   #40
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Oh well. You loose something great (dsg) versus a big gain on reliability (TC). I guess the latter is what most would prefer.

On choice of engines, I believe they are making a mistake with a 1l Tsi in a Vento. I drove the 1l Polo Tsi. It is hands down the best little 3 pot Turbo out there. That said, it just about it cuts it for driving experience. The same engine in a heavier, pricier, dated Vento sedan won't go down well with customers. It is not a patch to the refinement and excellent NVH of the 1.2 Tsi motor, which is why we all bought the GT and Vento Tsi.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 10th February 2020 at 11:36.
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Old 10th February 2020, 11:41   #41
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

So the net change in a Polo GT TSI is

+
More power, at least on paper (might be offset by the less efficient Torque Converter)
More reliable gearbox
Better fuel efficiency because of a smaller engine (probably will be offset by the less efficient Torque Converter)
TSI Manual option

-
One less cylinder
Smaller engine
More vibrations and noise
Slower gearbox

Sounds like a bad deal for enthusiasts but a good one for regular buyers. But then, not many regular buyers purchase a Volkswagen.

One thing is clear: The newer Polo GT TSI AT won't be sold at a price much less than the current model. Remember how Volkswagen pocketed all the tax benefit of moving from the Polo 1.6 TDI to the Polo 1.5 TDI and kept the price the same? All these cost cuttings are to increase margin, not to reduce price and increase sales volumes.

---

VAG group used to be the best option for enthusiasts in the B2(Polo), C2(Vento/Rapid) and D1(Octavia, and previously Jetta) segment. Sadly, the VAG group cars are now knowingly dropping from their Zenith. Too much love for the environment kills performance. We'll now have to wait 4-6 years for electric cars to mature to get good enthusiast cars in those segments.
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Old 10th February 2020, 11:42   #42
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Oh well. You loose something great (dsg) versus a big gain on reliability (TC)
I welcome this decision in fact, being a long term VAG customer and having experienced everything they offer - I have absolutely no problem or complaints with their service part (VW Gurugram has been keeping me happy since day 1).

But yes, if I am going to buy a used VAG car, I won't buy something which has the DSG. I have once seen three cars altogether enjoying a leisure 'one month waiting' at service station; all three were there for the DSG. Give me 5 hp lesser and 0-100 in 12 seconds, but the thing should last a few years. I don't want a one night stand with an awesome gearbox; which will later frustrate me to sell it off within an year or two of ownership. I frequently travel inter state and undertake a lot of full night drives, anything whose reliability can be questioned is a big NO for me.
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Old 10th February 2020, 11:49   #43
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quite a surprising move,that one...that makes Hyundai/Kia the only mainstream manufacturer offering DCTs... although I think, with multiple reports of heating issues with the Venue and Seltos coming up, they're going to follow suit as well.

I'm glad they chose the good old torque converter instead of CVT. Sure, they're gas guzzlers, but with appropriate tuning, they can be faster and as smoother if not more, than a DSG. The rubber band effect of CVTs is just diabolical. Not worth the smoothness over the AMT.

So, this does mean that VW does not intend to axe these decade old cars, renewing them for BS6 and all. They're gonna be here for the next decade too probably, while everyone else gets to drive the new generation!

Also, this could be a test bed for the 1.0 TSI, that would power the lesser variants of the Taigun, although how the 3-cylinder engine is gonna face the superior 1.4 GDI and the popular 1.5 diesel of the Seltos is beyond me.
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Old 10th February 2020, 11:59   #44
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by evil_grin View Post
So the net change in a Polo GT TSI is

+
One thing is clear: The newer Polo GT TSI AT won't be sold at a price much less than the current model. Remember how Volkswagen pocketed all the tax benefit of moving from the Polo 1.6 TDI to the Polo 1.5 TDI and kept the price the same? All these cost cuttings are to increase margin, not to reduce price and increase sales volumes.

If this happens then i20 with Turbo engine would become the favourite choice for any enthusiast. It will get the Venue's DCT transmission and engine. In any case, I think that would be the outcome as i20 will come with new features that Polo will definitely be lacking.

In the end, who would you like to be in business with? A company who treats India as dumping ground for their old and discarded products OR a company who has time again come up with India specific products and treat customer with respect.
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Old 10th February 2020, 12:10   #45
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
I drove the 1l Polo Tsi.
Could you please elaborate? I thought the 1.0 TSI wasn't out yet in India.
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