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Old 7th February 2020, 19:20   #1
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Default VW India discontinues DSG in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

New BS6 1.0 TSI engine in Vento and Polo will get option of an affordable 6-speed manual and a conventional 6-speed torque converter automatic. 7-speed twin-clutch DSG to be discontinued.
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Volkswagen India has officially confirmed that it will phase out its familiar DQ200 7-speed DSG gearbox in the Polo and Vento. The twin-clutch automatic transmission was mated to the 1.5 TDI diesel and 1.2 TSI petrol engines – both of which have also been discontinued in the run-up to the implementation of the BS6 norms. While there is no diesel option for the Polo and Vento, the 1.2 TSI has been replaced by a new-generation 1.0 TSI which was showcased at the ongoing Auto Expo in Delhi. This compact, 1.0-litre, three-cylinder, direct-injection turbo-petrol motor develops 115hp – 10hp more than the four-cylinder, 1.2 TSI. Torque is also higher at 200Nm.

The big news, however, is that the 1.0 TSI won’t come with the DSG as expected, but will instead, get two transmission options – a 6-speed manual and a conventional 6-speed torque converter automatic. Volkswagen says with the diesel gone, it wants to broaden the appeal of its petrol-only variants with more affordable transmission options.
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Last edited by GTO : 8th February 2020 at 14:26. Reason: Excerpt
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Old 7th February 2020, 22:30   #2
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Have mixed feelings after reading this news. From a business perspective, probably makes sense. Lot of folks stayed away from the TSI+DSG due to the price and the DSG reliability issues. From that perspective this move makes sense. And the 6 speed TC is not a bad one.

But that wow factor of VW was the TSI+DSG. Almost 7 years since it launched. There have been tons of automatics launched across all price ranges. But every time a review of an AT comes out, they common comment has been-'... cannot match up to VW TSI+DSG' combo. That will be missed.

On the plus side, glad I have a TSI+DSG now and also looks like the next segment models from VW will continue to have the DSG. So that is good.
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Old 7th February 2020, 22:54   #3
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Smart move and logical. Enthusiasts will say otherwise but it does broaden the appeal and there are very few who even know that the DSG is better than TC.

Skoda will be doing the same. The Rapid in matte grey parked at the auto expo had the 1.0L TSI with the 6 speed torque converter and this is when Skoda told us about this change.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...po-2020-a.html (Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI BS6 Petrol @ Auto Expo 2020)

Last edited by Vid6639 : 8th February 2020 at 12:04.
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Old 8th February 2020, 00:15   #4
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Smart move and logical. Enthusiasts will say otherwise but it does broaden the appeal and there are very few who even know that the DSG is better than TC.
Same thought here as well. Not many would even know the difference unless specifically told so. For enthusiasts, it is definitely a downgrade but I'd assume this is a more robust transmission than the DSG.

Any idea if the paddle shifts are still there? I believe the DSGs come with those.
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Old 8th February 2020, 00:46   #5
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Then Ford, now VW. The 2.0 strategy seems to be well though out, not only to address major reliability concerns, but to control costs as well.

Wondering if this signals the end of DCTs in the upper middle class segment.
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Old 8th February 2020, 00:59   #6
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

During a recent ACI interview with Juergen Stackmann, he mentioned that the new products are being developed with an aim for 95% localization if they can manage to get the gearbox done here as well.

Probably the switch to the 6-speed torque converter may be keeping this in mind. If so, future MQB A0 IN products like the Taigun may be getting this TC unit instead of the DSG.
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Old 8th February 2020, 09:39   #7
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Very good, the resale value of my Vento just went a little better. The only reason I got Vento over other cars was tsi+dsg, it was a key differentiator, with that gone it will be even more tough for it to compete with likes of Verna and city.
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Old 8th February 2020, 09:59   #8
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

So the extra 10bhp and torque would be used up by the TC gearbox itself so I suppose,it would still be as quick as the1.2TSI but not faster.Does this mean the new Karoq,A8 gen Octavia,T-Roc, Vision-IN,Taigun would be offered with the 7speed DQ381 gearbox?
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Old 8th February 2020, 10:24   #9
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by TSIVTEC View Post
the1.2TSI but not faster.Does this mean the new Karoq,A8 gen Octavia,T-Roc, Vision-IN,Taigun would be offered with the 7speed DQ381 gearbox?
Really sad news for enthusiasts. Karoq 1.5 tsi fwd used to come with DQ 200 while the awd version gets the DQ381.
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Old 8th February 2020, 11:28   #10
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
“We believe there’s a room for a TSI in the lower price segment and you can achieve this with a 6-speed manual transmission, which lets you move the price down”. Though Knapp didn’t reveal the exact price, we estimate the manual version could be at least Rs 75,000- Rs 1,00,000 cheaper than the 1.2 TSI DSG version.
So, here's what we are going to get.

- More powerful engine.
- Option of a manual transmission.
- Cheaper by 1L, which probably would be 1.25L on road in Bengaluru.

VW, please launch it ASAP. I am certainly not complaining.

Last edited by safari_lover : 8th February 2020 at 11:38.
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Old 8th February 2020, 11:41   #11
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

I think this is a very sensible move by VW as it is chasing volumes and frankly most people don't even know anything about DSG and how it is superior to CVT or TC auto transmission. So, why provide something at a higher price when there only a handful of people to appreciate the same? I don't think DSG reliability concerns are a reason for it's failure. If that was the case, Kia and Hyundai wouldn't have sold tons of DCT powered cars. In fact, I would say VW has resolved most of the DSG issues and taken very good care of customers who have faced those issues, sometimes even out of warranty. Also, they are offering standard 5 years warranty when I bought the car along with another 2 years of additional warranty.

I bough the Vento few months back mainly because of the superior driving experience offered by the TSI+DSG combo, which is unmatched in the segment/price range. I can't say the same about the next-gen Vento with 1.0TSI + TC gearbox. The 1.0 TSI might be slightly more powerful on paper but I doubt it will match the 1.2 TSI in real-world performance. As per some of the numbers I have checked, the 0-100 timings are more or less identical but I assume the 1.2TSI will be more refined, more drive-able and offer better real-world mileage. Actually, I feel good in a way that I will be one of the privileged ones to have the 1.2 TSI + DSG which the new customers can't buy
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Old 8th February 2020, 12:17   #12
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Quote:
Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
So, here's what we are going to get.

- More powerful engine.
- Option of a manual transmission.
- Cheaper by 1L, which probably would be 1.25L on road in Bengaluru.

VW, please launch it ASAP. I am certainly not complaining.
Now they may also load it with the highline features or at least hope they have a variant with those features.
Traditional AT would also help overcome the initial lag (which is anticipated) in the 1.0 L TSI
I don't believe in the theory that most of the GT TSI owners are not aware about the DSG. If they are choosing the Polo GT over a Baleno, Jazz or an i20 CVTs, which are more spacious and have more features and cost less, they are obviously more like enthusiasts and informed buyers.

Last edited by Guna : 8th February 2020 at 12:28.
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Old 8th February 2020, 12:18   #13
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

It may be a step in the right direction for the company to cater to wider segments of the market .
But, it is not a great news for the owners who have experienced DSG.
I hope they dont increase the price of DSG variants due to reduced economies of scale.

I am waiting for Koraq 1.5 TSI + DSG.
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Old 8th February 2020, 12:36   #14
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

Polo GT TSI at 9.76L was 2 lakh more expensive (ex-showroom price) compared to Polo 1.0 MPI Highline+ variant (7.76L), the major differentiators being 1.2 TSI Engine and DSG Gearbo - both of which were imported.

New Polo 1.0 TSI (Turbo) has it's engine made in India with high levels of localisation. So if they don't add significant features, the new manual GT TSI 1.0 should be priced atleast 1.25L (if not 1.50L) cheaper than current 1.2 GT TSI.

Now, comparing BLR On-Road prices (based on Carwale)
Polo GT TSI 1.2 BS4 - 11.84 L
Polo Highline+1.0 BS4 - 9.4 L

New Polo 1.0 TSI BS6 - 10.3 L (assuming ex-showroom 8.5L)

Hence a more accessible warm hatch for the enthusiasts.
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Old 8th February 2020, 12:43   #15
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Default re: VW India discontinues DSG gearbox in Polo & Vento 1.0 TSI, replaces with torque converter AT

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Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
Any idea if the paddle shifts are still there? I believe the DSGs come with those.
Nope. The Rapid at the Expo did not have paddle shifters. But this is to be expected as the Polo and Vento TSI DSG's or the Diesel Rapid/Vento DSG didn't have paddle shifters as well.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...po-2020-a.html (Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI BS6 Petrol @ Auto Expo 2020)

The paddle shifters are only on Octavia onwards.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 8th February 2020 at 12:46.
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