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Old 8th June 2020, 13:58   #211
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Default Re: The Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI Petrol, now launched at Rs 7.49 lakhs

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Originally Posted by IntoTheStorm View Post
Kudos to your efforts! but at the same time, even if he works on your feedback, dont expect any thing before at least next year! As even basic changes require complex cost analysis(even for small amount!) and also working with supplier and manufacturing teams. And do not forget that it is one of the most affordable offering in this segment hence they will be very careful no to add any additional cost. So lets hope that your feedback is included in next cycle!
I totally agree with you, that features vs pricing is a tricky thing across variants and it takes time to implement. But, for the time being, they can easily promote the steering swap as an accessory, so that one can enjoy steering mounted audio controls.

The MID thing might be tricky, as it depends on the BCM installed in the Rider. In case the unit is similar to the one on the Ambition, replacing only the combination switch can do the trick.

Most customers will be willing to pay as long as an option is available.

Can anyone please find out from our go to Skoda service advisor, if the BCM on the Rapid and the Ambition are similar? Also, if not, what might be the cost of the BCM present in the Ambition.

Regards!
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Old 8th June 2020, 15:44   #212
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Default Re: The Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI Petrol, now launched at Rs 7.49 lakhs

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Originally Posted by 84.monsoon View Post
Scanning through the brochures, I notice that the kerb weight of the Rapid Rider is 1112 KG. For the Polo Highline TSI, it is 1072 Kg.

So the difference in kerb weights between the two is only 50 KG. So, the Rapid Rider should be able to come in pretty close to the Polo TSI maybe slower by half a second in the 0-100 run.
Polo TSI makes 110PS @ 5000-5500 RPM
Delivers 18.24 kmpl (ARAI)

Rapid TSI makes 110PS @ 5000-5250 RPM
Delivers 18.97 kmpl (ARAI) with excess weight of 40KG.

Differences, although marginal, implies that Skoda runs a different tune which will most likely be favouring efficiency.
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Old 8th June 2020, 16:15   #213
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Default Re: The Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI Petrol, now launched at Rs 7.49 lakhs

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Originally Posted by AMG Power View Post

40kmph is certainly a 4th gear speed but the turbo takes long to spool up since the max torque is higher up in the rev band. Also 20 kmph is usually enough for a 3rd gear in most cars - but it is in off boost area for the 1.0 so it takes longer to spool up. All of this leads to far lower in-gear acceleration figures.
This post reminds me of drving my old 2010 Cruze MT. Cruze will almost stall if I drive at 20 kmph in 3rd gear. 40 kmph in 3rd gear is about 1350 rpm and that's where the turbo lag ends. If the speed falls below 40, I'd to downshift to 2nd. Similar story in 4th gear as well. If the speed falls below 60 kmph, I'd to downshift to 3rd from 4th. Car was difficult to drive in city, but a pleasure to drive on highway. 40-100 kmph in gear acceleration is around 18 seconds for this 2.0 l diesel rocket if I remember correctly.

Last edited by anb : 8th June 2020 at 16:28.
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Old 8th June 2020, 16:38   #214
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Default Re: The Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI Petrol, now launched at Rs 7.49 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by safari_lover View Post
I test drove the Rapid today. Following are my observations.

- The engine is powerful. The 2nd and 3rd gears above 2000 rpm are addictive.
- Car gains speeds quickly
- Didn't do any corners but lane changes at high speeds did not disturb the composure
- Engine is very silent at idle. I had to double check if it was running.
- Clutch and gearbox are easy to operate.
- High speed noise is acceptable

Overall I liked the car and the Rider variant comes across as very VFM at ~9.1L. I am planning to book one.

Only drawback was that the executive said they can't fix the Touch screen infotainment system in the Rider variant.
Today I test drove the Polo TSI. The car drives the same as the Rapid with two major differences that I could feel.

- The Polo is very noisy compared to the Rapid.
- The Ride quality is on the lower side. I could feel a lot more bumps on the road than the Rapid.

Last edited by safari_lover : 8th June 2020 at 16:41.
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Old 9th June 2020, 10:49   #215
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Default Re: The Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI Petrol, now launched at Rs 7.49 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
The turbo lag reduces in this case cause the gearbox downshifts for the DSG. But in the manual you are purposely making it lag hence this is an unfair assumption that the drive-ability is poorer.
Yes, DSG's reduce lag and the customer gets the end benefit of that in comparison to the owner of 1.0 MT who will be struggling with the lag. You cannot make an engine "purposely" have lag if it does not have lag. It has a lot of lag and it's timings prove that.

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
While I get your point on what you are saying for ease of driving but we need to understand the fact that automatics by virtue of being automatic don't have any driveability issues in city use since they change gears on their own.
Yes and that is what I have said in my earlier posts too.

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
80kmph and 40-100kmph are not really real world driving conditions. To see which is more driveable we should have figures for 40-80kmph in 3rd and 20-60kmph in 2nd. This will show real world usage.

No 40kmph is not a 4th gear speed in most turbo engines. Neither will my Ecosport or a Superb 1.8L TSI like being in 4th at 40kmph as it will be completely off boost.
The in gear acceleration figures have been standardised across the board so that readers can compare driveability in cars on equivalent parameters. Having testing parameters that suit turbo engines and which are bad for NA engines would only fool customers into believing wrong information. The reviews so far have only shown the outright performance of the Rapid without highlighting the SEVERE lack of driveability. That only serves to mislead customers and we will continue to do that if we say that the Rapid 1.0 is better than the 1.2 in that aspect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
This is again a gearbox trait and not engine.
Sorry but that's incorrect. Using the gear box to hide the inadequacies (lag) in the engine was your suggestion in an earlier post - my response saying that most drivers aren't going to be interested in flooring throttle and changing gears all the time was in response to that. So it boils down to using the gearbox to hide the lag of the engine. Again we are misleading prospective owners into thinking that this is something that will take care of the lag - they will find out later that it is something they wouldn't like doing all the time.

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Your basic premise is that an automatic transmission will be more fun to drive cause it's more usable power.
Incorrect. I love manuals and almost hate automatics. I don't mind paddle shifts in a high performance car but would prefer manuals even for that.

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
This is true only for half the people.
Incorrect again. As per the last team BHP survey only 15% prefer a manual.

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
There is no doubt that the DSG will work better for average drivers but nothing comes close to working a manual box through a ghat section.
You are forgetting that average drivers constitute the vast majority. Enthusiasts who would prefer to use manuals to go up the ghats are a fast dwindling minority - like you and me.

And this fact brings back the earlier point - majority of owners are going to be hugely underwhelmed after buying Rapid 1.0 and finding out it lacks driveability and is a pain in the city as against what the reviews so far show.

As I have said earlier, the 1.0 has better outright performance but has huge lag and this will be a dampener for most buyers and it is better that this fact is highlighted instead of sending out the wrong information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Secondly you are comparing gearboxes not engines, since the 1.2L TSI was with DSG and the 1.0L TSI is with a manual.
You compare the acceleration / lag / in gear acceleration which is the final outcome of an engine / gearbox combo. There is no point in comparing engines or gearboxes alone - only the end benefit to the customer as a result of what is provided in the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
And you have to remember that the 1.0L TSI manual is 2lakhs lesser than the price of the Polo GT TSI with DSG.
Precisely my point which I have stated earlier too. What you pay is what you get. The purpose of this discussion is to let customers understand the downside of the 2 lakhs lower payment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Another point to remember is that the DSG is a 7 speed vs the 6 speed MT. This means 1st gear is very short and in actual driving conditions, the DSG will be in 2nd more than 1st in slow speed. And in D mode, the DSG will keep upshifting to 4th and 5th and lose performance vs keeping the manual in 3rd even at 70kmph. So with far lesser downshifts, the manual can be driveable vs the DSG that will keep going up and down more.
Now you're comparing gearboxes.

But anyway.. I do know what a DSG does but most customers aren't interested. All that the owner of a DSG would want to know is whether they have a car that has good driveability and is more comfortable to drive and is easy to handle. The owner of a 1.0 MT would find that he has to change gears often, there are SEVERE driveability issues, a lot of lag in city driving unless he uses the gears in performance mode resulting in lower FE.

Last edited by AMG Power : 9th June 2020 at 10:51.
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Old 9th June 2020, 11:26   #216
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Default Re: The Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI Petrol, now launched at Rs 7.49 lakhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG Power View Post
Yes, DSG's reduce lag and the customer gets the end benefit of that in comparison to the owner of 1.0 MT who will be struggling with the lag.
The DSG reduces lag by downshifting, the same can/has to be done by the driver in a MT. Anyone who is buying the MT has to be ready to shift gears up and down as and when its needed.
Quote:
You cannot make an engine "purposely" have lag if it does not have lag. It has a lot of lag and it's timings prove that.
What he meant by 'purposely lag the engine' is; purposely driving and testing the car in the 3rd gear at 20 km/h & 4th gear at 40 km/h which are not the correct speeds for that particular car's gear ratio. A higher than actually needed gear was selected which resulted in the skewed timings of the 1.0 TSI.

Here are some test drive reports by BHPians who have driven the 1.0 TSI MT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tejascshetty View Post
Pheww! A slight press on the accelerator and you shoot off like a rocket. The generous spread of torque spools up generally at low RPM's (around 1500 RPM to 1700 RPM to be precise). At no point will the car feel out of breath or will you have to shift to a lower gear constantly to remain in the power band.
Quote:
Originally Posted by itwasntme View Post
Yummy engine, rorty like a go-kart when on full acceleration. Excellent TSI 'pull' in most ranges, good low-end, 6MT gearbox medium good not great.
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Originally Posted by agambhandari View Post
Start the car and idle isn't any worse than most cars. It is not as smooth as the 1.2 at idle but if you are coming from a lesser car, you wont find any issue. Not as bad as some 3 cylinders that are on the market. Get going and it pulls like any other car in its segment, say a Swift or i10 that is under 2.5k rpm though.

Give it a bit more gas and it launches after that. Above 3k rpm, the turbo comes on full song and it pulls well to just above 6000 rpms. There is a much sharper "shove" that hits with the turbo as compared to the older 1.2. The speed overall may not be much faster but it feels faster thanks to this. In comparison the older 1.2 EA111 feels more linear and the turbo comes smoother. TBH, I prefer the old school feeling of the newer EA211 turbo but these are personal preferences.
The accompanying sound is definitely the major difference when pushing it hard. The newer 1L feels a bit coarse in comparison to the Fine noise put out by the 1.2 . The newer sound isn't offensive but isn't a very nice one either. The 1.2 sounds better, especially in S mode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiranjitp View Post
As I have said in my previous post, the engine from outside sounds a bit like the k10 engine (while revving). Though from the inside with windows rolled up & AC switched on, the engine noise isn't intrusive at all. Even the typical 3 cylinder engine vibration at idle is well controlled. The car moves off the line easily, low end grunt is decent enough. The Polo TSi starts to move briskly from around 1500-1600 RPM, then after 2000 RPM progress is really quick. The pull is very strong, reminded me of the Figo diesel. I have driven both the Venue 1.0 Turbo & Baleno RS, the Polo TSi feels quicker than both of them. Baleno RS sadly feels slowest among this group. The Polo 1.6 MPi is a decent performer, but the Polo 1.0 TSi feels way faster. Though low end torque is a bit better in the 1.6 MPi.

Issue with most 3 cylinder engines is that when revvs fall too low, there's generally some vibration & knocking. Thankfully even when the revvs fall below the 1000-1100RPM mark, there's not much vibration. I shifted to 4th at 30kmph, there was no knocking or any unwanted vibration. Of course progress was a bit slow at such low revvs. I think city drivability of the Polo 1.0 TSi should be satisfactory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bipinbn View Post
We have a 1.2 GT TSI in family, and I have driven it quite a bit. At idle the engine is quite silent and only a bit less refined than the 1.2. Only at around 2000-2500 rpm range in 3rd gear is where I could hear it clatter a bit.

Gearbox is short throw and reminded me of First gen swift. It did have some roughness shifting to 1st gear and might get better after the first service.

Engine pulls neatly in any gear and in any RPM. It never felt short of breath. What I missed was the meaty/heavy<for lack of better word> feeling of the 1.2 TSI .The car had close to 1000 kms on the ODO and the rep was ok when I asked if I could push it a bit hard.

Took it to ring road and drove it aggressively. The engine pulls well and never felt strained or felt like it was struggling to gain speed. Noticeable differences to the 1.2 TSI were engine note at higher speeds and the light front-end feeling.

So looks like people are pretty happy with the performance.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 9th June 2020 at 12:07. Reason: as per rp added 2 more quotes
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Old 9th June 2020, 13:17   #217
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Default Re: The Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI Petrol, now launched at Rs 7.49 lakhs

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Originally Posted by AMG Power View Post
Also 20 kmph is usually enough for a 3rd gear in most cars - but it is in off boost area for the 1.0 so it takes longer to spool up.
Maybe for a Diesel engine, but certainly not for a NA or turbo-petrol, not the ones sold in India, and at most for the higher end - large capacity petrols.

30kmph is the minimum speed one would shift up to third gear (barring a downhill situation) in an NA petrol. My experience is with Tata’s 1.4 & turbo 1.2, Baleno 1.2, and Rapid 1.6. 20kmph would be lugging these cars. The situation would be worse for a turbo, so the NA or larger capacity engine would fare better all else remaining the same. Off boost, A 1.2 will behave as a 1.2, and the 1.0 as a 1.0.

IMHO one has to drive the car as it is, not as one wishes it to be. As long as the engine is smooth enough, a slightly higher start to power delivery shouldn’t be a problem. Peaky or jerky power delivery could be a problem though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMG Power View Post
Additionally the 1.2 has got it's max torque lower in the power band and this helps.
Definitely.

Last edited by VeluM : 9th June 2020 at 13:31. Reason: Attempted Clarity.
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Old 9th June 2020, 13:52   #218
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Default Re: The Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI Petrol, now launched at Rs 7.49 lakhs

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Originally Posted by VeluM View Post
30kmph is the minimum speed one would shift up to third gear (barring a downhill situation) in an NA petrol. My experience is with Tataís 1.4 & turbo 1.2, Baleno 1.2, and Rapid 1.6.
My Swift VXi manages to handle 20 kmph 3rd gear crawl with nary a hint of trouble, not exactly in meat of its strength but certainly not lugging. Similarly, Baleno 1.6 and I guess even Etios 1.5 also could do 20 kmph 3rd gear crawl. My Swift manages this even with two adults plus luggage, something I now appreciate on my long highway trips marked with too many diversions. Mostly for city driving when I am alone and facing smaller speed-breakers, 3rd is all I need. Baleno 1.6 managed this crawl even with load.
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Old 9th June 2020, 15:40   #219
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Default Re: The Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI Petrol, now launched at Rs 7.49 lakhs

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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
My Swift VXi manages to handle 20 kmph 3rd gear crawl with nary a hint of trouble, not exactly in meat of its strength but certainly not lugging. Similarly, Baleno 1.6 and I guess even Etios 1.5 also could do 20 kmph 3rd gear crawl. My Swift manages this even with two adults plus luggage, something I now appreciate on my long highway trips marked with too many diversions. Mostly for city driving when I am alone and facing smaller speed-breakers, 3rd is all I need. Baleno 1.6 managed this crawl even with load.
You could put it in fourth too, doesnít mean it is good for the engine or that it isnít lugging. Anti stall will kick in, and the car will accelerate at a rate dependent on the torque available at that low rpm - which will depend among other things on the engine NA capacity. It is physics and unless the engine is designed to produce sufficient torque at <1000rpm, the engine is lugging.

The point was that a 20-80 3rd gear run actually means attempting maximum acceleration in that gear, which will artificially amplify turbo lag.
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Old 9th June 2020, 19:28   #220
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Default Re: The Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI Petrol, now launched at Rs 7.49 lakhs

How does the VW 1.0TSI compare with Ford's Ecoboost 1L engine? Have there been any comparisons? The EcoBoost too had lot of hype when it came, but eventually, Ford ended up withdrawing it from the market.
Should we wait some time for the dust on VW 1.0Tsi to settle?
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Old 9th June 2020, 20:09   #221
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Default Re: The Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI Petrol, now launched at Rs 7.49 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Deep Blue View Post
How does the VW 1.0TSI compare with Ford's Ecoboost 1L engine? Have there been any comparisons? The EcoBoost too had lot of hype when it came, but eventually, Ford ended up withdrawing it from the market.
Should we wait some time for the dust on VW 1.0Tsi to settle?
The 1.0 TSI is supposed to be the mainstay of Skoda & VW's India strategy. They already have multiple models using it and all their upcoming made in India cars will use it too. So I don't think they'd be withdrawing the engine for a long time.

Last edited by safari_lover : 9th June 2020 at 20:14.
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Old 9th June 2020, 21:10   #222
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Default Re: The Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI Petrol, now launched at Rs 7.49 lakhs

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Originally Posted by Deep Blue View Post
How does the VW 1.0TSI compare with Ford's Ecoboost 1L engine? Have there been any comparisons? The EcoBoost too had lot of hype when it came, but eventually, Ford ended up withdrawing it from the market.
Should we wait some time for the dust on VW 1.0Tsi to settle?
I did a TD of the 1.0 tsi and had the EcoBoost ecosport for around 6 years.
They are very similar in character but the 1.0 tsi feels like it has a lesser turbo lag. It could be probably just due to the lesser weight of the car it is hauling but the TSI never feels out of breath in the Polo but Ecosport was just adequate in lower revs. Both make fantastic power above 2.5k rpms and no complaints after that although the EcoBoost motor was a bit more silent vs the TSI. Again, could be down to the better insulation in the ecosport.
But another major factor that VW has nailed is the gearbox. It is well geared to appeal both to the enthusiasts and the rest of the crowd whereas the Ford unit had much taller gears that were no fun and even needed constant downshifting in the city.
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Old 10th June 2020, 02:05   #223
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Default Re: The Skoda Rapid 1.0L TSI Petrol, now launched at Rs 7.49 lakhs

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Originally Posted by AMG Power View Post
The owner of a 1.0 MT would find that he has to change gears often, there are SEVERE driveability issues, a lot of lag in city driving unless he uses the gears in performance mode resulting in lower FE.
Almost every online test drive/review, and every TeamBHP member who has driven the 1.0 TSI MT has come away impressed. The 1.0 is already quicker than the 1.2 in outright acceleration and the gap keeps increasing as the speeds increase.

Of course the DSG is going to be the more comfortable or drivable, isn't that the reason to buy a DSG in the first place? And comparing in gear acceleration times of 2 polar opposite gearboxes doesn't make much sense. If someone buys the manual, they would just downshift to counter the lag.

Now 10-15% among enthusiasts would probably chose the MT and the rest(including enthusiasts) would chose the convenience of the DSG, irrespective of the results of any poll. Judging by the initial positive reviews, sweeping statements like "there are SEVERE drivability issues" is simply incorrect.
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Old 10th June 2020, 09:00   #224
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Default Re: The "I Booked my Car" Thread

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Originally Posted by nacd80 View Post
Corporate discount on the Rider...... Did you manage to get any?
Yes, the dealer at Vadodara offered ₹10,000 corporate discount on Rider variant.
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Old 10th June 2020, 10:49   #225
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Default Is the GC good enough?

The brochure gives the laden ground clearance as 116 mm -

Name:  Rapid GC.png
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Is this good enough and how does this compares with others in this segment? Any observations?

Edit -
Team-Bhp water mark has covered the portion which reads - "Ground clearance (laden condition)"

Last edited by vrprabhu : 10th June 2020 at 10:51. Reason: Reasons given in modified post itself...
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