[BUSA]

because relibility is or only creteria for rating cars.cars are not Space shuttles dude.and who said that the palio and golf are not reliable.i have a palio and it is perfectly relaible.

Whats space without relibilty. If the car is not relaible and its spacious then whats the difference between a house a car. Both dont move, unless shaken by Tsunamis!

By the way Corvette is American so please dont pop America in between all this!

Try selling a toyota to the queen of england.

Please use Lexus and not toyota!

do u know what is esp

yeah i do!

.try doing a saloom course in a car without ESP and one with it.these are safety systems designed to run only when one croses the physical limits of the cars ability, and in every day life one dosent do it regularly unless one uses BEST buses as chicanes.

Well that depends on person to person! Honestly you can drive a car at full throttle and there is very few cars which have ESP and whose physical limits can be crossed unless the car is modified!

This seems World WAR 3 or rather cold war!

[BUSA]

EDIT -

try the saloom in the wet(u will reach the limits earlier).the point is ESP or whatever these techo driver aids work when they are supposed to.

But it aint only the Germans which have this Techno! You are forgetting the Japs again!

are u serious.Mercedes is the cosliest car in its class.take which ever class u want.it is costlier than the BMW,AUDI,JAguar and the cheapest of all is the Lexus(even then it dosent sell)

Just go through the link RX135 posted, the Merc is cheaper!

just because u have heard mercs have reliability issues(specially with those electronics) dosent mean that Mercs workmanship has gone down.when the new s-class comes out just watch out for thier build,examples are already on show in the new SLK and the new M-class.

What has to come is the future. I dont disagree that Merc will fight back. But currently the Mercs quality has gone down. Also i am dead sure that the New S will be something which will excel in terms of techno! Buttt as of today Mercs arent what they used to be!

By the way Merve are you a German

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by BUSA

Well that depends on person to person! Honestly you can drive a car at full throttle and there is very few cars which have ESP and whose physical limits can be crossed unless the car is modified!

try the saloom in the wet(u will reach the limits earlier).the point is ESP or whatever these techo driver aids work when they are supposed to.

[BUSA]

Also it wont be out of place to mention that it was Honda who first invented the Variable valve Timing system in the 80s when most people used turbos!

[Gurkha]

Wolfgang is a ML and MB fanatic, being that, he has totally forgotten history, ABS originally came into being for airplanes, both ABS and FI were Bendix patents sold to Robert Bosch in the 60s, let us try and give the original inventors credit, next thing Wolfgang will claim is that MB invented Turbo Hyrdamatic or power windows.

http://www.sundaram-clayton.com/abs/abshist.htm

By the way, what else is Wolfgang going to claim, 5 valves per cylinder tech? The funny fact is that the MB F-I engine is made in UK by Ilmor, MB can't even make their own engine, when they needed 4 valve tech, they had to go to Cosworth in UK to make it for them, doesn't that surprise you.

[RX135]

Just go through the link RX135 posted, the Merc is cheaper!

They are almost different segments.

I dont disagree that Merc will fight back. But currently the Mercs quality has gone down.

Then you are in past They already are on huge quality overdrive. They have scaled up on JD power rating. CR will follow the suit soon.

[typeOnegative]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Guess you know where my heart is, certainly not in myths or pedigree but pure functionality. By the way, have you ever driven a Land Cruiser off the road and then had the chance to compare it to a Range Rover or you just are assessing it on toilet roll journalism from the likes of Biased Broadcasting Corporation with that pompous fat fool?

That's nice to hear. So it is a German derivative that you would rather drive. You seem to be missing the point though. What is it that your heart would 'like' to own? You may plumb for the Pajero or the Land Cruiser here. But there are hundreds of others who will want to own a part of history by buying a European/American car no matter that it might not be as good as the Japanese variant. There is something called brand equity which the Japanese don't have yet. Sadly. As for me, I would not pick either because these vehicles suck big time IMHO.

No I have not driven the Range Rover or the Land Cruiser and compared them. Neither do I want to. I am just telling you that no matter which is better there are others for whom the comparison will be totally illogical.

Also please do note that this discussion was meant to be about cars. Not off roaders. Which is why I highlighted the lack of weight and feel in Japanese cars.

P.S. And that 'pompous fat fool', of whom I am no fan might most certainly entertain an equally grandiose opinion about the likes of you. Let's refrain from name calling.

Originally Posted by Steeroid

Attaboy Gurkha!!! Dats tellin 'im! On the last part, you took the words right outta my mouth!

Excuse me?

[RX135]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Wolfgang is a ML and MB fanatic, being that, he has totally forgotten history, ABS originally came into being for airplanes, both ABS and FI were Bendix patents sold to Robert Bosch in the 60s, let us try and give the original inventors credit, next thing Wolfgang will claim is that MB invented Turbo Hyrdamatic or power windows.

Sigh! I should have known it. The link which you gave does not mention inventor of ABS. Here is one more. Hopefully, you will consider it reliable and unbiased.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system
Or, this can be posted by another ractist fanatic.

[typeOnegative]

Originally Posted by RX135

Sigh! I should have known it. The link which you gave does not mention inventor of ABS. Here is one more. Hopefully, you will consider it reliable and unbiased.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system
Or, this can be posted by another ractist fanatic.

Leave it RX. This poll was about personal preferences. But this thread is now starting to turn personal. Fiat is not the only thing that gets the adrenaline pumping I guess.

[BUSA]

They are almost different segments

Ohh common!! Obviously a 800 will sell more then a NHC. Please do a proper comparision!

Its clear, Japanese cars are made for FE.
American for comfort
German for Safety!

[RX135]

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

Leave it RX. This poll was about personal preferences. But this thread is now starting to turn personal. Fiat is not the only thing that gets the adrenaline pumping I guess.

I guess you right.

In last few days of heavy rains in Pune, I saw quite a few maruti 800s, opened up on pothole littered roads of Pune, for maintenance. So much for that much touted reliability. But again, may be I am simply hallucinating.

[RX135]

Originally Posted by BUSA

Its clear, Japanese cars are made for FE.
American for comfort
German for Safety!

Again a myth Most japanese cars give better FE because they are light. My Petra gives me 10+ in Pune although it is 200kg heavier than its competition (Baleno, Accent, Ikon?). Alongwith Honda, VW has record of creating some of the most frugal engines. JTD invented by Fiat are frugal AND powerful.

Edit Note: Thousand apologies, TypeO. I just couldn't resist replying it. Last post!

[Gurkha]

Usually gas engines burn at a ratio of 19:1, but in 1987, the copycat, mediocre Japanese firm Honda did a small revolution by introducing it's lean burn engine which burn at super lean ratio of 23:1, not only did this engine win races due to this feature, it also developed huge amounts of power compared to its competition the likes of BMW and Ferrari, so severe was Honda dominance that out of 16 races, they would take poles on 15. This same lowly Japanese company also was the first to incorporate fly by wire in their F-I cars as well as on board telemetry link which would enable the company in Japan to control engine ECU and other points via satellite.

Thankfully, Honda also incorporated the same PGM-FI in the later Civics giving them good economy and performance.

Just because someone has been fed with western propaganda and consider them as Gods don't give them the right to deny legitimate credit to others who deserve it fully.

Comparing opened up Maruti is quite unfair, most Marutis sold here are abused beyond repair and majority of them are heavily abused 3rd hand vehicles, the present day Maruti quality has come down substantially, the early 86 all Japanese Marutis never stalled in rain if properly maintained, however, it was a common sight in US to see MB's catching fire on the side of the road, spewing coolant in summers, and lets put it this way, FIAT, Renault and Peugot quit US due to massive amounts of litigation pending on them. Their quality was rated the lowest and breakdowns were as bad as YUGO. FIAT is also know as Fix It Again TONY and that reflects its quality. By the way, the last flash flooding we had in Chandigarh, only my Gurkha as well as few Scorpios survived and made it out, there were graveyard of Opel, Skoda, Maruti as well as few others, all stalled due to knee deep water.

[Gurkha]

Originally Posted by typeOnegative

That's nice to hear. So it is a German derivative that you would rather drive. You seem to be missing the point though. What is it that your heart would 'like' to own? You may plumb for the Pajero or the Land Cruiser here. But there are hundreds of others who will want to own a part of history by buying a European/American car no matter that it might not be as good as the Japanese variant. There is something called brand equity which the Japanese don't have yet. Sadly. As for me, I would not pick either because these vehicles suck big time IMHO.

No I have not driven the Range Rover or the Land Cruiser and compared them. Neither do I want to. I am just telling you that no matter which is better there are others for whom the comparison will be totally illogical.

Also please do note that this discussion was meant to be about cars. Not off roaders. Which is why I highlighted the lack of weight and feel in Japanese cars.

P.S. And that 'pompous fat fool', of whom I am no fan might most certainly entertain an equally grandiose opinion about the likes of you. Let's refrain from name calling.


Excuse me?

In case you know how to count, you will see that Japanese have the maximum brand loyalty in US, history and pedigree be damned. When you drive to work, it is reliability that is taking you there, not history, myth etc.

About off roaders, it is you who asked me about my opinion of Range Rovers( last time I checked, they were making 4WD only ) and by the way, you don't have to give me any money to buy one, last time I checked my bank account, I have enough to buy one if I so wanted. The Gurkha is good, I never said that MB is bad, go back carefully and read my posts, MB has made some good legendary vehicles which I have listed. The Gurkha is a derivative of that using the famous OM 616 engines. I don't wish to sound redundant,I have owned two MB vehicles in the past. Land Cruisers and Pajeros may suck to you, but then you are not the one they are marketing to so relax, they have their loyal customer base including the likes of National Geography, guess they can do without your business.

As for name calling, don't see any names mentioned in my post, just some subtle hint for the smart ones. Now I suggest you take a different tone, you are delving into un-necessary aggressive posturing and I suggest you back off before this turns into an ugly fest, take out your threatening tones otherwise you are showing your age and immaturity.

[Gurkha]

Also the Subaru WRX and Mitsubishi Evo being pounded mercilessly are weak Japanese and have numerous WRC titles among them.

As for the pompous fool from BBC, the only time he showed India was as usual in poor light reducing this country to bullock carts, scooters, incessant traffic and Ambassador in chich he participated in a blind rally in Chennai and yet you stand up for the guy, guess you like punishment, not all of us.