[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

HONDA also gave the world the first variable valve timing, was already featured in their race bikes.

http://www.answers.com/topic/variable-valve-timing

The first functional variable valve timing system, including variable lift, was developed at Fiat. Developed by Giovanni Torazza in the 1970's, the system used hydraulic pressure to vary the fulcrum of the cam followers. The hydraulic pressure changed according to engine speed and intake pressure. The typical opening variation was 37%.

The next big step was taken by Honda in the 1980s and 90s, where Honda began by experimenting with variable valve lift. Pleased with the results, engineers took the knowledge and applied it to the B16A engine, fitted to the 1989 EF9 Honda Civic. From there it has been used in a variety of applications, from sport to utility, by many different auto makers.

and the alliminium chassis was firts implemented by Audi for their A8 saloon.

are u fooling around.honda just improved tech tried by other manufacturers.

[Gurkha]

The NSX is older than Audi A8 and had an all aluminum chassis, and don't see any mention of 5 valves in any euro crap, and never saw a FIAT with a VTEC either.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by merve_extreme

we'll talk when lexus reaches MB's legandary brand value.(which IMO will never ever happen).

You'd better start talking then, mate. There are parts of the world where the Lexus has similar brand value as Merc. I live in one of them.

[Gurkha]

Actually Lexus does have its own distinguished clientele in the US, the ones who rejected MB and BMW when they became the preferred brand of pimps, drug dealers and mafia, and the final blow, MB's merge with Chrysler which was the last straw for many because of Chrysler's rep.

Funny thing was the pompous and quite racist German boss of BMW in the 90s declared that Japanese don't have the genes to make a luxury car, that same year, Infiniti and Lexus sales made him eat his own words.

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

You'd better start talking then, mate. There are parts of the world where the Lexus has similar brand value as Merc. I live in one of them.

i did mention Lexus sells pretty well in US of A and it is the only country on earth where the europeans have failed.brand value or prestige goes to the manufacturer who has the same value worldwide and not in a particular country,imagine if Tata made a lux car in india and have a huge brand image as luxury car maker in india,in the world it has no standing.

lets see how lexus fares in japan considering people thre have already seen these cars as toyotas.

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Actually Lexus does have its own distinguished clientele in the US, the ones who rejected MB and BMW when they became the preferred brand of pimps, drug dealers and mafia, and the final blow, MB's merge with Chrysler which was the last straw for many because of Chrysler's rep.

i agree,hence they fired Jurgen schreemp.so all the job that lexus does is pick up unsatisfied customers from MB and BMW.does it have any value when a new customer wants to buy a luxury car and by the way where is chrysler today.

Originally Posted by Gurkha

The NSX is older than Audi A8 and had an all aluminum chassis, and don't see any mention of 5 valves in any euro crap, and never saw a FIAT with a VTEC either.

who invented it? GM got the idea and Fiat made the first working model.more the number of valves is not better.audi invented a engine with 6 valves.Mercedes was first with 3 valves.Four is the adapted standard today because it is considered to be smoother and better performer for Car engines.and ok i agree japanese invented the things u mention.say they invented 50 new concepts.the europeans must have invented atleast 500 and americans atleast 100 over the past 10 years.only the new s-class has 30 new patents.those japanese even copied Mercs radar based distronic cruise control,the slk folding roof and now they will also copy the night navigation and safety features.i just wish the patent rules were much stronger.

[merve_extreme]

and now look what ur honda is upto.when will these japs stop copying technology.

http://in.rediff.com/money/2005/aug/13bajaj.htm

[Azzkikr]

hey ! the one that matters, its the humvy for me...ain't nothin quite like it on the roads....or OFF them for that matter

[Gurkha]

Have you read that link, it is Kawasaki tech, not Bajaj, it would be truly a joke if 11 times Moto GP world champion and pioneer of many innovations and technology HONDA, copied Bajaj.

By the way, Toyoda made and patented the world's first loom which he sold to start Toyota.

Let me ask you, why such hatred towards the Japanese and Asians in general, do you think you are not a part of Asia or you think you are European? Never in my 17 years of stay in US have I heard such vitriolic hatred towards the Japanese in general and these two nations fought each other in WW-II. Honda and Toyota continues to be the top brands in US for many years, now if they werent' quality, don't see why US would buy them instead of US or German cars.

[Steeroid]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Honda and Toyota continues to be the top brands in US for many years, now if they werent' quality, don't see why US would buy them instead of US or German cars.

Its not just in the US. I've worked in the Far East, Africa, Latin America, Europe and the Middle East and you see a lot more Japanese or Korean cars in most of these places.

Unfortunately I've noticed that there is a sort of indifference or even discrimination towards Asian manufacturers by many who consider themselves to be petrolheads. Which is a pity, because even the developed markets have shown their preference for these vehicles.

Even in deepest Africa, where they use vehicles till they practically break into pieces on the road you find that the vehicles that have seen the most abuse and still go on are the Japanese cars and pickups - so much for European build quality...I've seen 5 year old Peuguots in much worse condition than 15 year old Mazdas. This may not qualify for any sort of proof, but then seeing is believing and I havent seen any old european cars still being driven around. Everyone from Ford to Renault makes pickups and farm vehicles, but why is it that even the Isuzus and Mazdas outsell them, let alone the Toyotas and Nissans?

As for the Korean cars, the discrimination is even worse...I guess the ones who discriminate so uhhh, indicriminately will only learn when they are at the receiving end of such unreasonable and unwarranted discrimination.

If you want concrete proof, go to the website of BS Motoring www.bsmotoring.com - there are two reviews on that page, one of the Fiat Palio Weekender's latest revival and the other of the new Hyundai Sonata. Note the extravagant praise for a model thats already been in the market for about 4 years now (and has bombed) and the grudging, patronising and condescending review of the Sonata, and the unabashed bias of the writer against Korean cars...he seems to carry that attitude around as some kind of medal.

I find this sort of bias repulsive, and a reflection of a slave mentality that refuses to go away almost 60 years after we supposedly kicked the firangs out of the country - they're still in our minds.

[Abhay]

Nicely put Steer....

[Gurkha]

Steeroid,

You put it far better than the I could have, I wanted to add the slave mentality factor, after coming back from the US, I see a very sad trend among our people on hating anything thats either Asian or Indian, this trend is on a person to person basis as well, it is sort of worshipping the west, as a teen I was like that too, but I learnt from my experience of ownership with several brands of US and Euro vehicles, was the last to switch to Japanese and thankfully so, maybe age mellowed and matured my mind. Our education pattern is to be blamed, English language does us no favors here, we get brainwashed into thinking that west is superior in every sense. It is only when you go there, your eyes open. I found most of my friends driving Japanese cars, owning Japanese equipments and they are all Americans, fourth generation or more. You are also right about middle east, Africa and other parts using Japanese vehicles, Top Gear did a program where they took three Range Rovers to Australia and asked the Land Cruiser owners if they would prefer RR to TLC, all of them refused, they said, their life depended on the Land Cruisers, if a vehicle breaks down in the middle of bush country, you are dead. Land Cruisers are also used inside mines as they proved to be the most reliable vehicle, they survive the nickel dust and keep on running where most others fail. Ironically, two of the Range Rovers carried by the Top Gear team died and even they had to admit to the TLC's greatness.

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Have you read that link, it is Kawasaki tech, not Bajaj, it would be truly a joke if 11 times Moto GP world champion and pioneer of many innovations and technology HONDA, copied Bajaj.

have u read that link properly.

The statement has found an echo in the cheers arising out of the research and development wing of Bajaj Auto, which has a technology tie-up with Honda's rival Kawasaki and claims to be the first to use two spark plugs in motorcycle engines to increase power and fuel efficiency.

When contacted, a Bajaj Auto spokesperson claimed that the twin spark plug system was introduced by Bajaj over a year back with the launch of the Pulsar DTSi and the company had applied for a patent for this technology both in India and major overseas markets.

if u read the bold words.bajaj R&d has implemented twin spark and not kawasaki.Bajaj had technology tieup with kawasaki but the twin spark ignition system was developed by bajaj for its bikes.bajaj was first to implement it for Motorcycle engines.if they had not developed it would they even be eligible to file for a patent.read between the words

[merve_extreme]

steeroid and gurkha what are u trying to prove.dont bring patritiosim here.there is no hate for japanese vehicles but i dont like them.Japanese are not the kind of manufacturers who make cars u fall in love with.those cars have nothing special about them or neither about the company.there is no pride in owning them.50% of the world owns a toyota,what's special in owning a toyota.yes japanese cars may be found on the remotest places on earth because they have reliable engines.those people dont worry about brand,the technology or rustproff body etc.it doesnt matter to them.do u think the most reliable cars are the best.no their are not.

dont compare a landcruiser to a merc or BMW sedan or perfomance car.they have so many electroncis controlling the engine and body bits what electronics does a landcruiser have.if u want to compare a landcruiser compare it with the Mercedes G-wagen.that thing will continue running where the landcruiser will melt down.


FIY Mercedes benz has a 30 year mobil life warranty on its cars(warranty that the car will remain in one peice and will be usable for atleast 30 years,without rusting or loss in structural integrity).

[merve_extreme]

Originally Posted by Steeroid

I find this sort of bias repulsive, and a reflection of a slave mentality that refuses to go away almost 60 years after we supposedly kicked the firangs out of the country - they're still in our minds.

why dont u accept the fact that the europeans are the most advanced continent when it comes to technology.europeans were born invertors.what the world is today is because what the european people invented.The car as a concept is very european in the first place.there is nothing wrong with improving a invention and making it more reliable.but one should not take the credit for that technology.

FIY.the americans are brithish migrants,same with the australians,and america was the country that first provided ecectricity to Japan as britan did to india.bringing sentiments inside one cannot hide from the fact that there are some people on these earth who are advanced than we are when it comes to technology.they may not be superior as human beings but they are superior as inventors.
there is no shame or hurt sentiments in accepting these facts.asians on their own would have never managed to make a car or for that matter even invent electricity.

in the same way europeans trail the indians and asains when it comes to moral values,food and culture and hardship.

[prkothan]

Why not Skoda. I love to buy any of the Skoda make either Fabia or Superb.