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Old 23rd February 2020, 00:32   #16
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

Nothing new or ground breaking in his statement. For our population, the cars we have per individual and the size of cars we have here we are no where close to a country like USA; where we see people driving their F150 trucks to office.

On the other hand its just the height of hypocrisy to hear complaints about big cars from Mahindra. They have been sitting on the Reva, E20 platforms for nearly a decade without doing anything or bringing any worthy small electric cars for our congested cities. A nano sized electric would be so apt for cities like Bangalore.

Last edited by Madhu_Bengaluru : 23rd February 2020 at 00:33.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 01:34   #17
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Indians are much better in this. In America almost every person drives a huge car to work and back, to carry just themselves. And then complain about traffic. Granted, weather is extreme in some parts of the year, but it is just a national habit.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 07:05   #18
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

Mahindra should take lead and provide a solution. Perhaps they should launch a VFM 2 seater convertible with around 350 LTE boot space for about 8-9 lakhs.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 13:24   #19
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

Dear executive management (of whatever automotive company you are),

If you have an agenda, please say it aloud already. We are not naive to buy all your judgemental nonsense. Thank You

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miyata View Post
The man has precept and practice that seem very well converged. Kudos. Not too many we come across (in positions of authority) that actually practice what they preach.
Am sure he is being chauffeured in company expense for all official purpose. Most here go alone in a vehicle to work and back.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 14:08   #20
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

This statement is uncalled for. A majority of Indians use small cars for daily commute. We have had compact SUVs only in the last few years. How many use a Fortuner or such vehicles for daily use?

Looks like a statement to suit the times.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 21:44   #21
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

True, most of the cars on road are occupied by a single person. The culture of carpooling needs to grow in India and SRide is doing a good job at that.

Coming to vehicles for personal transport, cars like Renault Twizy, MG E200 will be a boon for congested and narrow roads. They are perfect as a roundabout vehicle to run errands in. Hope to see them succeed in India.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 22:29   #22
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

I guess that’s a pitch for Udo or Atom



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Old 23rd February 2020, 22:37   #23
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

Although he seems to be making a good point, it is not happening anywhere in the world. Cars are getting bigger and heavier all the time. E.g. check out the original Fiat 500 versus the current Fiat 500. Or the original Mini, versus a current one.

Also, in many places we see more and more people going for SUV’s rather than anything smaller. In fact, if you check out for the last two decades, you will see that the nice little cars are being replaced by either new heavier, bigger version of the old or SUV’s

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...3e9_story.html

This article makes also an interesting observation why the manufacturers simply do not have any incentive for small and light cute cars!

Also, smaller cars, as a general rule, could be little more efficient, I do not believe they will reduce congestion by much. Of course, especially in nations where lane discipline is present. On a three lane road, you can only have three cars abreast. Size does not matter. Of course, in India a three lane road might have six cars abreast. Going smaller could get you eight cars abreast I guess.

My point being, congestion is more a function of amount of roads, traffic, general infrastructure, rather than size perse.

And people seem to be going for bigger cars anyway, for a variety of reasons.

Let me put it differently; would anyone feel safe and comfortable taking a tiny car such as the original Fiat 500 into Delhi rush hour? To make cars small and light you need to shed a lot of the modern stuff, electrics, airbags, crumple zones, AC etc.

Jeroen

Last edited by Jeroen : 23rd February 2020 at 22:39.
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Old 23rd February 2020, 23:51   #24
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
My point being, congestion is more a function of amount of roads, traffic, general infrastructure, rather than size perse.
And loads of driving discipline as well. Lot of traffic jams in India happen because somebody tries to be oversmart in saving a few seconds and instead end up wasting several minutes for everyone regardless of their size.
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Old 24th February 2020, 10:11   #25
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

Dr. Goenka should see the size of cars in advanced economies like the USA . The average size of car there is 2X - 3X larger than India, which is predominantly a country of small cars. Abroad, a Civic is a small / compact sedan, whereas in India, it's almost a luxury car.

India is also the LARGEST two-wheeler market in the world, so his statement is kind of off when compared to other countries (although his point stands in a general sense, for all countries).
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Old 24th February 2020, 10:48   #26
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

Wait a minute, wasn't the Tata Nano made thinking that they would attract two-wheeler owners to shift to four-wheelers without putting in much of the extra price? Then why don't they now blame the two-wheeler owners as well for not buying their car rather than blaming people who bought Crossovers/SUVs?

Or for once be unbiased and blame the car yourself knowing that it wasn't a great product, to begin with. I remember one day sitting in a Nano with all it's occupants while it struggled to climb a hill in a village area.

Last edited by Starfire : 24th February 2020 at 10:50.
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Old 24th February 2020, 10:53   #27
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

I hope his message is not lost. Personally, I feel it is wasteful to commute in a 5 seater car powered by a 2.5 L engine. Personal transportation in the current form is just not sustainable in the coming decades. While I love my car, I try to ride my bicycle for 16 miles (8+8) to work at least 2-3 days of the week. Can never imagine doing that in India doe to the lack of discipline on the road.

This is where the sharing of the economy comes into picture. Uber, and Lyft should be offering self-driving taxis in the US in the coming years. While there'll be no self driving cars in India in the near future, there'll be more app based shared services.

The government should focus on policy making to:
1. Build better public transport
2. Encourage companies to innovate new last-mile connectivity solutions
3. Not really encourage smaller, cheaper cars
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Old 24th February 2020, 10:53   #28
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

Is this statement really true? I would say that Indians on the other hand love smaller frugal cars, don't stress upon metal thickness or structural strength or safety kits which all put together ensure a better FE ( case in example MSIL). Compare it with many other countries where a majority population love driving bigger sedans or pick up trucks.

Also this statement coming from M&M which probably has a zero presence in the compact segment and are only thriving on big SUVs. Kind of ironic!
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Old 24th February 2020, 11:24   #29
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

Shared this image in a discussion on FB. it is a collage of what i saw on google

Name:  87223129_10219668742925718_2893022861721600000_n.jpg
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My thought process goes like this

Considering that urban transport in the present form is hardly 100 years old, it is obvious that we desperately need models that scale, considering multiple parameters like road density or pollution or population density.

It will be tempting for India to follow Europe for a solution as both of them have older cities, where roads can't be extended beyond a point without creating issues for citizens.

In Europe, a mix of tram, bus, and train can take a person from one corner of Europe to another. But even that may not be enough or the right solution for India, considering our population density. We need our own models to solve this problem that is a mix of multiple modes of transport.

I recently traveled from Guindy to Madras High Court ( In Chennai) using the Metro services. Parked my two-wheeler at Guindy station ( parking is 10 rupees for 6 hours). the ticket for the entire journey cost me 100 rupees ( 2 x 50). the 20 minutes one-way journey was stress-free and the experience similar to what we get in London or Paris

if last-mile connectivity is properly planned, we can still realize what the image says for metros. But that also means a proper policy, without being biased by political pressures or unions or that coordinates multiple modes of transportation is very much needed. Chennai metro is slowly working towards it.

I can use a single card in Germany to travel the tram, bus, and train, but in Chennai, the buses and trains are owned by different entities which means multiple tickets and payments. it is not a seamless experience.

And all this obviously needs massive investment in infra projects

but one thing is for sure, what worked in the past for transportation is reaching its end of life. We may look at a future where it is mostly public transportation plus very little or expensive private ownership. And I am also sure we will undergo a lot of churns to arrive at that point.

Hope Mr. Pawan Goenka's message, considering his position in the industry, initiates such conversations at multiple levels, which may result in useful outcomes to the cities. otherwise our cities risk being inhumane to the poorer sections of the society and that will be a much bigger problem to solve.
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Old 24th February 2020, 13:20   #30
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Default Re: Indians use too big a car to move a single person: Pawan Goenka

Mr. Goenka’s statement does not make much sense when his own company manufactures big diesel SUVs. The current traffic situations in metro cities can only be solved by providing safe and reliable public transport service specifically for the last mile journey. One can observe that many single occupant cars run on Delhi - Gurgaon highway in peak hours and that creates huge traffic jam near Ambiance mall Gurgaon. Carpooling is another way that we can opt to help in reducing the chaos. I am not very optimistic that any government will work seriously to improve the public transportation in near future but lets hope for the best!
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