Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 5th March 2020, 10:24   #31
BHPian
 
Kannan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MAA/CJB
Posts: 102
Thanked: 65 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

I believe we shouldn't compare global with Indian. According to my friend he was able to afford a Maruti Dzire with his existing home loan when he was in India. But the moment he moved to abroad he was able to afford an SUV and he also pays home loan there and additionally for the Indian one as well. He says cars and homes are affordable because the interest rates are less. He also says the quality of XUV 500 there is relatively better than what he see in India. And yes he bought an XUV 500 there too

Now the important thing to consider is the ratio of expense on your car compared to other household expenses resulting in the consideration of value for money factor.

I still believe Indians would splurge on cars if they are affordable, in the sense if they are left with money at the end of the month and I guess India has the highest loan interest rates compared to the average salary.

I my view, value for money and relatively trouble free experience is what I would prefer. In that aspect I will close my eyes and go for any Maruti though my heart desires an AWD SUV with an awesome 10 speaker audio system, punchy engine for highway performance with cruise control.

Talking about safety, I believe in defensive driving and ABS with EBD is more than enough. So according to me, NCAP is just a number, anything you hit at speeds of more than 60KMPH I believe we can forgot those NCAP stars and pretty sure we would be seeing stars . If something comes and hits you in opposite direction, we can even forget stars, direct to heaven or hell depends upon what you did or how you treated others provided both these places exist, though German ones are relatively better in handling the impact I guess.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 22nd April 2020 at 07:17. Reason: only 2 smileys per post please!
Kannan is online now  
Old 5th March 2020, 10:30   #32
BHPian
 
dragracer567's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 361
Thanked: 1,451 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasanth View Post
Is anyone (Dieties of MSIL) even bothered that Maruti is not gonna send their cars for Global NCAP? How shameful is that? They’re degrading themselves.
Let me tell a real fact here: Toyota Corolla, Toyota RAV-4, Honda Accord, Civic, CR-V, VW Golf, Polo, Ford Escape, Ford F-series, Ford Fiesta, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Toyota Highlander.
Are the all time best selling cars in the WORLD.
Tell me one Suzuki car costing above 20lakhs. (Which is also successful)
I regret. Indian car market is getting worse year after year.
Chevy dead
Fiat dead
Mitsubishi dead
Ford struggling
Honda, Jeep, Skoda struggling
And many more.
There is just one problem with your synopsis, Indians are not "Kanjoos" for not buying cars which cost more than 20 lakhs, it's just that most Indians cannot afford to buy cars above 20 lakhs. The average income in India is about 10,500 rs per months which means a 20 lakh car will cost the 16 year income of an average Indian's entire salary!

If people could afford it, everyone who buys a swift will be driving around in a Toyota Fortuner!

As for the brands you named:

Chevy is dead everywhere except the US, China and the Middle East.

Fiat sells decently only in Europe.

Mitsubishi is dead worldwide with decent sales only in SE Asia and Japan.

Honda didn't respond quick enough to the changing market demands for crossovers and when they did respond, they did with underwhelming models like the BR-V.

Jeep and most Skodas cost more than 20 lakhs and hence again most Indians can't afford it. Skoda Rapid meanwhile is outdated and outsold by crossovers.

Things are changing with the Kia Seltos selling more than 15,000 but it will be a while before people can buy >20 lakh cars en masse.

Also please understand that it is not the responsibility of Indian customers to make car makers profitable, rather it is the responsibility of the car makers to convince us to buy their cars!

Last edited by khan_sultan : 22nd April 2020 at 07:17. Reason: typo in quoted post
dragracer567 is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 5th March 2020, 10:57   #33
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 94
Thanked: 151 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

Indian car market is turning into an oligopolistic premise, where two or three companies are in control of the market. You can name Maruti-Suzuki and Hyundai-Kia who are ruling the roost.

While I do not classify a manufacturer as risky only on sales number, but on organizational philosophy and principles perceived by general customers. Having said that, sales numbers depending on market segment, reflect organizational strength and sincerity.

In that matter, the attribute, how sincere is the manufacturer to serve their customers, takes top most priority into my consideration. Here I take few names which at present scenario, can be associated with the term ‘risky’, let’s start with Volkswagen


Volkswagen – We heard lot of gaga about German engineering ! What I should do with that engineering, if the product itself is not reliable. How the German engineering is helping a common customer to use Volkswagen products in India with piece of mind? Add to that, negative perceptions associated with Volkswagen after sales services.

And should I question the basic ethics of an organization which was directly involved in that infamous diesel-gate scandal? I discourage anyone known to me who intends to buy a VW product.

Honda – Convincing the Indians with their products carrying a legacy brand which are inferior to their international offerings ! I do not want to take example of specific product like Jazz; lot of debates were already posted in forum. But look at their outlook; no differentiation, no ambition, slow to react to market changes and we do not know how they will move in future in Indian scenario. I associate Honda with premium pricing only and that’s it, nothing else! It is not a surprise, Honda is consistently losing market share.

Yes, they have that excellent 1.5 iVtec engine! What’s next?

Toyota – nowadays, started marketing Maruti Suzuki products with changed grill and logo. What other things should I say? Hope, they will survive with Innova only. Not doing justice to their brand name!


Fiat, Datsun, Nissan, etc. – anyone can question why one should buy a product from these companies! I prefer to keep Renault as exception, at least they bring customer-centric products with novelty and are gaining momentum!


Disclaimer : These are personal opinion only.

Last edited by Subby : 5th March 2020 at 10:59.
Subby is offline  
Old 5th March 2020, 11:11   #34
BHPian
 
Nithesh_M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Mangalore
Posts: 991
Thanked: 1,884 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

It is funny how Renault gets a pass for experimenting with unsafe cars within various price brackets and selling outdated Duster for so many years despite the new Duster sold everywhere else. Not to forget the whole Captur/Kaptur false advertising thing that blew up in their face.

Yet Honda says they cannot compromise on chassis build to plomp ICE features/soft touch materials like rivals and they're the bad guys. Even Toyota had said the entry level car segment is unfeasible from a safety point of view yet here they are rebadging Suzukis to stay afloat.

Honestly I'd rather the two Japanese big wigs pull out of the market than compromise on structural quality of their vehicles. The Brio being discontinued was a right move as much as I miss the peppy city car.
Nithesh_M is online now  
Old 5th March 2020, 13:24   #35
BHPian
 
Mafia's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: BLR MCT
Posts: 593
Thanked: 274 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasanth View Post
Tell me one Suzuki car costing above 20lakhs. (Which is also successful)
I regret. Indian car market is getting worse year after year.
I can't agree more on this. Indians rate safety so low on the criteria of things to consider while buying.

Does Maruti have one 5star NCAP car in the Indian market?

I feel at least Hyundai has a few options available for customers who are bothered about their safety.

Maybe on the flip side, if and when the preventable death rate increases due to low safety cars then the customers will wakeup to investing in a safe car.

Additionally, Suzuki quit the USA market as there was low demand for the small cars made by them!

Last edited by Mafia : 5th March 2020 at 13:25.
Mafia is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 5th March 2020, 21:08   #36
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 19
Thanked: 18 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

I donít think so, Indians are kanjoos.
If that was the case the number of Innova and fortuners on the road wonít be the case.

Whatever German engineering VW and other German brands claim, they are not reliable . I own BMW, Audi Toyota as well as HONDA. Toyota is the most superior car brand with minimum failures.

BMW compressor gone in 4 years. Audi coolant pump failed. Honda AC is in effective and power windows noise is too loud.

Whatís the use of over engineering when itís not reliable.
samitjain is offline  
Old 6th March 2020, 21:15   #37
Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: New delhi
Posts: 20
Thanked: 83 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

Sorry for going little of the topic. We have seen how Kia arrived in the Indian market with a bang. Their business strategies are talk of the town for months now. People suggest that other manufactures should study and learn from Kiaís success. Ford and Renault started the CSUV segment with their EcoSport and Duster. The success of Duster is known to all despite it was from unknown brand for many Indians. It used to be a dream car for many. Renault and Ford did not adopt innovation and they are getting irrelevant in this segment (though EcoSport still gets some buyers). Imagine, if they had adopted dynamic approach and introduced updated and modern Duster and EcoSport in time, we would have not seen Seltos success. Look how Creta and Brezza captured the market created by them. My point is, if you donít innovate and adopt the dynamic approach and change according to the time, you will be irrelevant like Nokia and Blackberry.
Nisaan and Datsun following the nokia path in India hence I would not go for their cars. I appreciate Tata and Mahindra for what they are doing despite they are not market leaders but their future is bright because they are innovative and updating their cars and I am sure their effort will be acknowledged one day in terms of sales!
khanmaj is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 7th March 2020, 20:45   #38
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Dehradun
Posts: 75
Thanked: 45 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by GipsyDanger View Post

In case of Honda, it's the Jazz. The same sins of it's previous incarnation is going to punish it. Despite being a great product, the premium prices have restricted the sales, and there are no plans for a successor. If it faces the axe, once again, the spares are gonna be an issue. Atleast if you plan on keeping it for 7 or 8 years.
Well, I have a now 10 year old Jazz and, I can confirm that spares are just not an issue. Since all models of the car are quite popular in other countries, Jazz specific spares may not be immediately available, but are provided in 7-10 days. The local dealer has also assured me that spares of my 2010 model will not pose any problem in the future as well. Also, a lot of its parts come from a common bin and hence are and will continue to be available without any issue. Though, yes, most people would perhaps not like to buy a car which is not very visible on the roads.
amit162 is offline  
Old 7th March 2020, 23:18   #39
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Chennai
Posts: 24
Thanked: 18 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

I would not go purely by numbers but rather see if the carmaker actually has a game plan (read product road map). As they say the odds will always favour a man with a plan. With their India 2.0 strategy the VW group has their priorities sorted and I do not have a reason to consider them risky. To that end, the VW group is not even shying away from bringing their global porfolio to India. When did Toyota or Honda ever do that. All this talk about Hybrids and inspite of having the products, they have not done anything till forced by a regulatory push.

The manufacturers who have no new launches or updates planned and rely on a single product are the ones that are actually risky. We all know who they are!
Vegitocat is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 16th March 2020, 15:26   #40
BHPian
 
Bibendum90949's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 808
Thanked: 2,925 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

This is a favoured topic for me.Whenever I buy a new car, I've always weighed up how strong and serious are they in doing business in India. I've stayed away from cars that were brilliant but their existence here was in a quandary.

There were many such cars viz; Palio, Punto, Outlander and now Compass.Putting one's hard earned money onto these machines are fraught with risk. If they shut shop, the resale value of these cars drop significantly besides the availability of spares would later become a nightmare.Hence there are certain merits of buying a car that is doing well in the market and the icing on the cake is if that manufacturer is in good shape with their operations in the country.In that sense, I was so relieved when Ford decided to stay afloat by giving hands to Mahindra.Ford is one brand which should exist in the country. That will keep the lesser mortals who make cars that handle badly on their toes.Else an Indian car buyer would never get to know how does a Ford or a VW ride vis-a-vis cars from the stables of other manufacturers who're not so renowned of making solid cars.

Presently Maruti, Hyundai-Kia, Tata, Toyota, Mahindra, Renault and to an extent VW ( owing to their aggressive approach to be in the suv segment totally) are presently the safe buys in my book.
Bibendum90949 is online now   (1) Thanks
Old 21st April 2020, 22:05   #41
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cochin
Posts: 46
Thanked: 57 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

In my opinion the brands to stay away from are the Germans, Europeans and the Americans. Japanese and Koreans are the only manufacturers who are in sync with the Indian mindset (except Nissan/Datsun who lost the plot with their outdated models).

Even the Japanese have lost the plot halfway seeing the example of Toyota with the manufacturer depending only on Innova and Fortuner for survival and the Honda about to shut shop. Maruti in my opinion makes excellent VFM cars but when was the last time anyone thought about a Maruti car as aspirational?

Koreans are on a different tangent, packing their cars to the gills with equipment and being quick with model changes ( not sticker, light jobs, Creta is a good example).

In today's market, I would definitely stay away from Nissan/Datsun, VW, Ford and Skoda in that order. Skoda has some really enthusiast cars, hence the last on my list

I own a 2012 Fortuner and a 2015 Hyundai Grand i10 for information.
gopzdoc is offline  
Old 21st April 2020, 22:46   #42
Distinguished - BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: HR 51/HR 29
Posts: 1,265
Thanked: 6,267 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

Going by the overall attitude of this thread, it seems all manufactures that do not belong to the Maruti and Hyundai family are risky. Everyone can give n number of reasons but fact is that these two families together control 90% of the passenger car market. We have an absolute duopoly here and this is going to remain so in the near to mid future. The arrival of Kia and the Maruti-Toyota partnership only makes this position stronger. All in, this is not a healthy sign for India as a market where we are dependent on two. No other manufacturer will invest here. We are already seeing that.
Shreyans_Jain is online now   (5) Thanks
Old 22nd April 2020, 01:08   #43
BHPian
 
Fuldagap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: --
Posts: 102
Thanked: 173 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

As fellow BHPians have routinely pointed out that the automobile scene in the country is increasingly becoming oligopolistic or duopolistic, is it safe to assume that there would be collusion among the big brands or are they already doing so? If yes, are the customers already paying increased prices for lower quality or is there a likelihood of being so in the future. Were there more players with better market shares, would it be possible to have lower priced cars with better quality in all categories? I'd love to get some light thrown on this, given that Marutis are touted to be cheap cars.
Fuldagap is offline  
Old 22nd April 2020, 10:35   #44
BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 299
Thanked: 205 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

I am surprised some of us suggest newbies like Kia as reliable.

In the post COVID scenario, I think newer entrants still looking to set in their roots in the ecosystem will face massive challenges; while incumbents deeply entrenched will slog out in this battle of attrition.

Customers in the near future will be extremely cost conscious and VFM will take priority over bragging rights. I think there will be a new outlook, with people focusing more on maintenance costs and mileage rather than whether product has DRLs or projector headlamps.

Brands too will undertake massive cost cutting measures, which will start with dropping features from cars (bye-bye real wheel cladding, forget 60-40 split rear seats). However, cost cutting ultimately depends on unit economics, and those who have the scale and market will perhaps fare better.
amitayu is offline  
Old 22nd April 2020, 10:51   #45
Team-BHP Support
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 14,971
Thanked: 52,882 Times
Default Re: Risky car manufacturers in India, considering their sales numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitayu View Post
I am surprised some of us suggest newbies like Kia as reliable.
Because it's Hyundai-Kia.

Only risky product in their lineup is the Carnival (in case it flops). Seltos is basically Creta and the upcoming Sonet is Hyundai Venue underneath. Engines, transmissions, etc are all shared between the two companies - and together gives them excellent numbers to maintain profitability.

Even if Kia sales reduce (due to change of customer risk tolerance factor) post COVID-19, they will still be able to leverage Hyundai's volumes to maintain decent profitability.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (1) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks