[ram87pune]

Hello bhpians.

Just confirmed from my sources that the development of the 1.5 turbo petrol has once again started in full swing. The development was frozen for a brief period of time post launch of the XUV700.

Now Tata has started producing prototypes of this engine and will test it in a variety of products which can take this engine. The Harrier twins are the preferred recipients but which are the other products this engine will be tested in remains to be seen. The 2.0 turbo petrol development is again put on the backburner and Tata is still dilly dallying as to how to play this petrol engine game with the Harrier twins. Most likely scenario being that they will bring the bigger engine at a later date but they are trying hard to get the 1.5 engine to the market by 2023 just in time to meet the CAFE deadline.

Will get the updated as and when I get them.

[volkman10]

Tata Harrier Petrol Spied Testing ?






Lin

[vvabhiram]

Will Harrier's Diesel variant cease to exist once the CAFE norms kick in

[nasir88]

Originally Posted by vvabhiram

Will Harrier's Diesel variant cease to exist once the CAFE norms kick in

Updated CAFE norms would actually promote diesels as they have higher fuel efficiency and lower CO2 output. My 2 cents.

[Venkatesh]

Originally Posted by ram87pune

The Harrier twins are the preferred recipients they are trying hard to get the 1.5 engine to the market by 2023 just in time to meet the CAFE deadline.

Tata Safari spied with emission testing equipment, 1.5-litre turbo-petrol?



Link

[VPJ74]

Tata dealer in Mumbai denies any plans to bring out a Petrol Harrier. Could be a gag order but at the minimum, they have no details on an imminent launch.

[arjab]

Originally Posted by Venkatesh

Tata Safari spied with emission testing equipment, 1.5-litre turbo-petrol?

Attachment 2272600

Link

This looks like a RDE (Real Time Driving Emissions) test. Can be testing for the impending CAFE 2 norms

[TusharK]

Tata Harrier, Safari petrol version not a priority

There have been rumours about Tata Motors developing a new 1.5-litre turbo-petrol engine for its large SUVs. However, as per the latest reports, the Harrier and Safari may not get a petrol engine option anytime soon.



Rajan Amba, Vice President, Sales, Marketing and Customer Care, Tata Motors, has hinted that the carmaker is in no hurry to introduce a petrol option for its large SUVs.

Amba added that the diesel engine gives the Harrier and Safari a kind of driveability that is expected from SUVs. Introducing a petrol alternative isn’t a priority for the company at the moment.

The rumoured petrol alternative is said to be a 1.5-litre 4-cylinder turbo-petrol engine. It’s essentially the 1.2-litre block with a fourth cylinder added to it.

At present, the Tata Harrier and Safari are powered by an FCA-sourced 2.0-litre diesel engine that makes 168 BHP and 350 Nm.

Source: Carwale

Link to Team-BHP News

[sreedotk]

Doesn't Tata have access to the Ingenium engine series from JLR. JLR has decided to move to an electric future, wouldn't it be cheap to get the engine designs over to India with any usable tooling and use it for Harrrier, Safari etc.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by TusharK

Amba added that the diesel engine gives the Harrier and Safari a kind of driveability that is expected from SUVs. Introducing a petrol alternative isn’t a priority for the company at the moment.

Guess this man hasn't tried out the XUV700 petrol or any modern turbocharged petrol engine. Else being in such a position he would not have spoken about driveability. And not like these cars are being used as off roading SUV with AWD in order to have a solid low end grunt at idling speed.

[AROO7]

Originally Posted by sreedotk

JLR has decided to move to an electric future, wouldn't it be cheap to get the engine designs over to India with any usable tooling and use it for Harrrier, Safari etc.

The engine's reliability and subsequent repair cost are the two main reasons that don't make sense for its use in a mass-market SUV.

[Geta]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Guess this man hasn't tried out the XUV700 petrol or any modern turbocharged petrol engine. Else being in such a position he would not have spoken about driveability. And not like these cars are being used as off roading SUV with AWD in order to have a solid low end grunt at idling speed.

Of course he would have definitely tried the XUV700 petrol. But he can only say certain things in the public.

What he actually means by commenting on the driveability of the diesel engines is that the 1.5L turbo petrol (with about 140PS power and 230Nm of torque) would be barely aqeduate for the 5 seater Harrier on level highways and would be horribly underpowered in a Safari carrying 7 people+luggage climbing a flyover/parking ramps in multi level parking. It would be a pain in bumper-to-bumper traffic and providing an AT for an underpowered turbo-petrol is going to be pretty difficult. (Not enough torque in low rpms, TC box is going to be fuel guzzler, DCA reliability issues, rubber band effect in CVT with underpowered turbo petrol and so on)

Harrier doesn't deserve anything less than a 1.8 L turbo petrol and Safari doesn't deserve anything less than a 2 L turbo petrol. The 1.5L engine will kill the brand goodwill.

[UD17]

As far as i know, the 1.5TGDi is under development. I also have some faint information on the struggle they are facing to churn out a high BHP from this engine. Guess they do not have any experience of developing a TGDI till now. Integration with JLR for this project would make things costlier and complicated for sure. The reason for the statements i see as:

1. Tata struggles with 1.5TGDI development and they need more time to settle things
2. Then there is further expectation/requirements like CAFE, Mileage and Durability
2. They do not want to put underpowered powertrain when there is 200+ BHP (with reasonable mileage numbers) on XUV7oo and ScorpioN. Competitors had moved the game up.
3. 1.5TGDi is a new development so economic should be justified considering the potential units they could sell

IMHO 1.5TGDi could be a great choice for a car like Nexon or a SUV between Nexon and Harrier. Sooner or later this powertrain has to come there is no doubt about that.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by UD17

Guess they do not have any experience of developing a TGDI till now. Integration with JLR for this project would make things costlier and complicated for sure. The reason for the statements i see as:
.

Why would it be costlier if JLR is owned by Tata and they have open access to their tech? The development costs of bringing in a JLR engine, adapting it to local needs and economics would be lesser and of course a better bet than developing a TGDI engine from scratch. If they can borrow the Harrier platform from JLR, engine should not be an issue. All they have to do is work on the delta changes and work on increasing reliability. Not sure if I'm missing something w.r.t. JLR collaboration.

[Cresterk]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Why would it be costlier if JLR is owned by Tata and they have open access to their tech? The development costs of bringing in a JLR engine, adapting it to local needs and economics would be lesser and of course a better bet than developing a TGDI engine from scratch. If they can borrow the Harrier platform from JLR, engine should not be an issue. All they have to do is work on the delta changes and work on increasing reliability. Not sure if I'm missing something w.r.t. JLR collaboration.

I remember a similar discussion here back when they first announced that they were putting fiat engines into the Harrier. Basically the gist of it was that it didn't really make sense to put an engine that costs around 7-10l into a 15l car. Jaguar/Landrover aren't really known for being reliable or easy to repair or cheap to maintain either.