[ashutoshb]

A turbo petrol, DCT Altroz sedan would have been an excellent value for money option while choosing between a City and the Slavia.

Unfortunate, that the segment is not growing enough for Tata to see potential worthy enough to make an investment.

[theAutomaniac]

Originally Posted by ashutoshb

Unfortunate, that the segment is not growing enough for Tata to see potential worthy enough to make an investment.

Low growth in any segment does not mean that it should be abandoned! Until 4th gen, the City used to average at around 1.5-2k. Monthly figures for the same are now at 3.5-4k Even its chief but not-so-exciting-anymore rivals (Ciaz and Verna) still average at 1.5-2k! Heck even the decade old Rapid used to average at 1k units.

The City's growth, Rapid's show-before-death, Ciaz-Verna's survival and Slavia's arrival definitely indicate that the C-segment sedans still hold a lot of scope for growth if it sees better products. I'm sure once the 2023 Ciaz-Verna, Virtus and Slavia get going, this segment will bounce back (ofcourse would never be as popular as SUVs) and Tata will then be left wanting a pie of it!

So no, the C-sedans still have enough potential, it's Tata who is just focusing on segments with higher profits and hence ignoring sedans.

[ashutoshb]

A related read.

Skoda's Zac Hollis is quite optimistic about the mid-size sedan segment, expects it to be twice the size in one year.

Sedan market will be twice as big in a year, says Skoda India's Zac Hollis

[ashutoshb]

Do not know, for how long, will Tata keep the 1.5 Diesel in the Nexon and Altroz.

But, had there been a Tata Altroz sedan today, it would have been the only diesel sedan in its segment.

A bigger boot and wheelbase would have also meant a longer range EV sedan, worthy of an upgrade from the Tigor.

[padmrajravi]

There is no point launching a ICE sedan in this space now. Verna, City and VW twins has taken the competition to another level and each of them have their own USP. Tata will never be able to snatch sales from them. The only way Tata can get a foot hold in this segment is by launching an EV sedan.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

There is no point launching a ICE sedan in this space now. Verna, City and VW twins has taken the competition to another level and each of them have their own USP. Tata will never be able to snatch sales from them. The only way Tata can get a foot hold in this segment is by launching an EV sedan.

Tata has an ace in its hand - the diesel engine. The 1.5 Revotorq is an excellent engine, with killer economy and strong performance backed by reliability and robustness. There still is strong demand for diesels, whenever available, in non NCR markets above the 15L price point. Hyundai Kia cars are a testament to this. A diesel sedan based on the extremely competent Alfa platform will find plenty of takers, simply because it has no direct competition anymore. But for that to work, they need to figure out a diesel automatic option, and come up with a brand new cabin totally different from Altroz and a Punch.


EV sedans will always be hamstrung by range and charging concerns. The audience that is open to buying EVs today as their primary car is miniscule. Why would you want to limit your product to that? An EV option is good. But it can’t be the only powertrain on offer in a mass market product.

[DRPSREDDY]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Tata has an ace in its hand - the diesel engine. The 1.5 Revotorq is an excellent engine, with killer economy and strong performance backed by reliability and robustness. There still is strong demand for diesels, whenever available, in non NCR markets above the 15L price point. Hyundai Kia cars are a testament to this. A diesel sedan based on the extremely competent Alfa platform will find plenty of takers, simply because it has no direct competition anymore. But for that to work, they need to figure out a diesel automatic option, and come up with a brand new cabin totally different from Altroz and a Punch.

After the demise of Honda City diesel, the only diesel sedan in the current market, Hyundai Verna along with their smaller counterpart Aura too was dropped. Sedan is a sensitive segment where people will not drive like the SUVs and demand a lot of finesse. It is only a statement segment and mileage is always low. So Diesel will be very less or non-existent in current situation.

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

EV sedans will always be hamstrung by range and charging concerns. The audience that is open to buying EVs today as their primary car is miniscule. Why would you want to limit your product to that? An EV option is good. But it can’t be the only powertrain on offer in a mass market product.

EVs will make a lot of sense here and it will be primarily city driven and will be a lot more successful as it will be lot more efficient than an SUV.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

Tata has an ace in its hand - the diesel engine. The 1.5 Revotorq is an excellent engine, with killer economy and strong performance backed by reliability and robustness. There still is strong demand for diesels, whenever available, in non NCR markets above the 15L price point. Hyundai Kia cars are a testament to this. A diesel sedan based on the extremely competent Alfa platform will find plenty of takers, simply because it has no direct competition anymore. But for that to work, they need to figure out a diesel automatic option, and come up with a brand new cabin totally different from Altroz and a Punch.


EV sedans will always be hamstrung by range and charging concerns. The audience that is open to buying EVs today as their primary car is miniscule. Why would you want to limit your product to that? An EV option is good. But it can’t be the only powertrain on offer in a mass market product.

The question is how long will that market exist? it does exist now, but Suzuki and Toyota have already shown customers what hybrids can do. Diesel is quickly becoming the dirty option in the market. Add to that, the government is doing its part too to make people believe that you are doing a crime when you drive a diesel. All these will converge to a situation where Diesel will be frowned upon in the near future.

I am not sure that the diesel market will exist long enough for Tata to get back the money spent on developing a sedan platform that can take the Revotorq engine, mating it to the DCA automatic they haven't yet paired with diesel, developing a brand new cabin that is different from Altroz and Punch, and many other expenses to differentiate it. On the other hand, If it is an EV, they can sell it for 10 years with proper updates. They don't need to spend money on differentiating it either, because it will be a unicorn in that market. It is a more sensible option to put your resources in EV than the slandered diesel at this point.

[ashutoshb]

Soon, Tata will be the only company manufacturing DCTs in India.

So, I am only guessing that Nexon, their most popular car, will have DCA, sooner or later.

Whether they will pair it to the diesel, only they know. But, it will give them an edge, for sure.

An Altroz sedan, available with a GDI petrol, the 1.5 diesel and finally an EV variant, fills up many gaps for Tata. And there should be economies of scale with these many powertrain options.

And knowing Tata and their designs, I am sure it will look nothing like the Altroz.

[antz.bin]

Assuming the Altroz based Sedan will have a very similar engine bay to Altroz, I don't see any technical reason why Tata cannot provide all 3 drivetrains at launch (1.2 Turbo Petrol,
1.5 Turbo Diesel and a 40/50 kWH EV)

1.5 Turbo Diesel will once again be a differentiator for Tata since currently the lowest priced Diesel Sedan is the 55 Lakh Mercedes Benz A Class Limousine.

https://www.carwale.com/find-car/res...&fuelTypeIds=2

When comparing with Hybrids, the cheapest ones are the Hyrider/Grand Vitara and the Honda City. All in the vicinity of 22 lakhs.

The Ciaz is comparable on size with the City and starts at ~11 lakh.
Verna/Slavia/Virtus/City are around the 13 lakh mark for their least powerful trims. The iTurbo Petrol is already on par on power as compared to these 1.5NA cars. No reason why the Altroz Turbo Petrol Sedan cannot be priced in the vicinity of a Ciaz with a Diesel version at a 1.2-1.8 lakh premium pricing it at par with the Verna 1.5NA. Plenty of pricing power before the economy of a Hybrid will be able to catch up with this on running costs and TCO.

Moving on to the EV aspect, Given the larger footprint of a sedan, this could very well be the first Tata to get a 50 kWH battery pack on the EV variant. Given the inherent aero efficiency of a sedan over an SUV/Crossover, there is a very good chance that the highway range at 100kmph for a 50kWH variant could well be within touching distance of a 60 kWH BYD Atto 3 due to the better aero and lower weight at a price close to the GV/Hyrider/City eHEV.

We need all the highway range at 100/120kmph we can get now that there will be an expressway starting from Chennai and taking us all the way to Katra in a few years from now. India is getting a huge infra upgrade and EVs need to be efficient at 120kmph to be usable on the E-Ways. Sedans are the way to up this high speed efficiency and no matter how much practicality a Crossover/SUV may offer, efficiency is an ace that it can never have. Efficiency in an EV is equivalent to time. Better efficiency at higher speed means the vehicle will spend less time covering the distance while expending less energy and again less time charging, i.e. replenishing the energy.

There is so much potential for this car it is not even funny anymore that Tata wouldn't get this to market, like, NOW.

[ashutoshb]

No plans to enter mid size sedan segment, says Shailesh Chandra, MD, Tata Motors PV.

"We have seen that new model launches push sales, but only to a point. Overall, the market share of sedans has remained range-bound in the past few years, about 10% of the passenger vehicle industry,” Chandra said, “Of that 10%, about 70% is made up by sub-4 metre sedans, where we are present.”

More details are here.