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Old 13th March 2020, 14:59   #16
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

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Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
There is one big difference. The DSGs offered by VW, Ford, Jeep and Hyundai/Kia are all dry clutch systems. The PPG brochure for this transmission clearly states that it employs a wet clutch. This one single point can be a game changer when it comes to reliability, as we have seen with the DQ250 and 380 vs the notorious dry clutch DQ200.

This will be the first mass market wet clutch DSG to be sold in India. Fingers crossed.
Are you sure wet clutch DSGs have no issues whatsoever? Then why are they not giving us wet clutch? Cost or weight, or both?
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Old 13th March 2020, 16:21   #17
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

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Are you sure wet clutch DSGs have no issues whatsoever? Then why are they not giving us wet clutch? Cost or weight, or both?
There is no technology that is 101% foolproof and reliable. Typically, manufacturers use dry clutch DSGs for smaller engines and wet clutch for higher torque applications. In India, the VW group has been the pioneer and doyen of the dual clutch gearbox. In their cars, the wet clutch DSG has proven to be much less prone to failure than the dry clutch one. All other manufacturers that have introduced dual clutch transmissions have launched dry clutch DSGs, which are smaller, lighter and cheaper. All of them have suffered from overheating and excessive clutch wear in typical Indian conditions, just like the VW dry clutch.


Tata should be commended for learning from others and spending time, money and effort to develop a proper wet clutch DSG for use with smaller engines. This is definitely an India first, and perhaps even a world first.
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Old 13th March 2020, 18:07   #18
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

This indeed is a very welcome news. There was reports of Tata developing a 7 Speed DCT for the Tata Altroz 1.2 petrol engine since last December itself. If Tata has an agreement with Punch Powertrain for their DT-1 DCT transmission for Altroz then it makes sense that they may introduce it for the more popular Nexon also. I was under the impression that this was the same company that supplied the 6 speed Torque Converter AT for the Hexa, but turns out that was Punch Powerglide, whereas this DCT supplier is Punch Powertrain.
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Old 14th March 2020, 01:07   #19
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

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Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
There is no technology that is 101% foolproof and reliable. Typically, manufacturers use dry clutch DSGs for smaller engines and wet clutch for higher torque applications. In India, the VW group has been the pioneer and doyen of the dual clutch gearbox. In their cars, the wet clutch DSG has proven to be much less prone to failure than the dry clutch one. All other manufacturers that have introduced dual clutch transmissions have launched dry clutch DSGs, which are smaller, lighter and cheaper. All of them have suffered from overheating and excessive clutch wear in typical Indian conditions, just like the VW dry clutch.
VAG suffered issues with both, wet and dry DSGs. Just that the sheer volume of cars sold with the dry DSG were higher and led to disproportionate complaints.
Tatas effort is surely praiseworthy, don't get me wrong here. I'm just saying that this might not be the time or product to experiment with.
The Nexon might be just the right product to pull Tata into green. Just like the Indica of yesteryears.
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Old 14th March 2020, 15:37   #20
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

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Originally Posted by roadrunner_nv View Post
VAG suffered issues with both, wet and dry DSGs. Just that the sheer volume of cars sold with the dry DSG were higher and led to disproportionate complaints.
Tatas effort is surely praiseworthy, don't get me wrong here. I'm just saying that this might not be the time or product to experiment with.
The Nexon might be just the right product to pull Tata into green. Just like the Indica of yesteryears.
Don't know why Tata is getting into DSG. DSG issue in other cars may be considered a DSG issue but a DSG issue in Tata car will be classified as Tata car problems. Please Tata, give people a TC like you did in Hexa and Harrier.
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Old 16th March 2020, 14:58   #21
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain View Post
There is one big difference. The DSGs offered by VW, Ford, Jeep and Hyundai/Kia are all dry clutch systems. The PPG brochure for this transmission clearly states that it employs a wet clutch. This one single point can be a game changer when it comes to reliability, as we have seen with the DQ250 and 380 vs the notorious dry clutch DQ200.

This will be the first mass market wet clutch DSG to be sold in India. Fingers crossed.
The DQ250 employed in the Jetta is a wet clutch DSG. I have been driving it for the past 4 years now.
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Old 16th March 2020, 17:13   #22
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

Just my two paise from the limited information available on this transmission.

The Punch DCT appears to use a planetary gear set on the first clutch, which would make it behave slightly different to a normal DCT which uses normal gears.

Planetary gearsets are found in the normal torque converter gearboxes and are generally more reliable.

Anyway I'm not saying this is better or worse than the other DCTs but the use of a planetary gear set may make it slightly less prone to faults compared to the other DCT systems.

I leave the deep dive into tech to the experts.
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Old 27th June 2020, 19:25   #23
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

Caught on Autospy's camera at Pune earlier today.

As per him, the shifts were too quick and too smooth for it to be a manual, and the test car was gone very fast.

Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?-img20200627wa0022.jpg

Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?-img20200627wa0021.jpg

Last edited by RavenAvi : 27th June 2020 at 19:29. Reason: very = too.
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Old 1st July 2020, 12:43   #24
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

With the BS6 price bump the Nexon was loosing it VFM tag, now with a DCT it would be even less appealing.
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Old 1st July 2020, 13:18   #25
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

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Originally Posted by Turbolove View Post
With the BS6 price bump the Nexon was loosing it VFM tag, now with a DCT it would be even less appealing.
It's not only Tata which has raised prices post BS-6 transition. Besides DCT is very appealing to many including me. I'm looking to upgrade my Ford Aspire DCT to a safer car with DCT. Right now only Nexon and Altroz fits the bill of safe cars in India which have a possibility to get DCT. XUV 300 has only AMT, don't know whether a proper automatic gearbox is coming. The next option is Seltos which isn't crash tested and costs significantly high. The only reason that the Tata cars don't sell is due to the poor image from previous cars. But when I checked Nexon, it was far far better than any Maruti car and definitely better than my Ford by a mile.
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Old 1st July 2020, 13:30   #26
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

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Originally Posted by Turbolove View Post
With the BS6 price bump the Nexon was loosing it VFM tag, now with a DCT it would be even less appealing.
With DCT, Nexon will move to the segment. With a proper automatic gearbox, there is practically no difference between what Creta offers in the next segment. Space and Engine power-wise, Nexon is very close to Creta base and mid models anyway.
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Old 1st July 2020, 14:28   #27
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

I've never heard of this company Punch Powetrain and there's no mention of them on Wikipedia. Looks like it is associated with the PSA group which isn't doing well around the globe. I'm really skeptical about whether they have the expertise for tuning the DCT for harsh Indian conditions when VW, Ford, Hyundai-Kia haven't had a good track record.

Why Tata would use unreliable technology and team up with a relatively known manufacturer is beyond me.

I'd rather have them work with a TC or a CVT from Aisin or ZF. Don't get me wrong, I want Tata to succeed and I wish to be proven wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nmenon View Post
Punch DCT appears to use a planetary gear set on the first clutch, which would make it behave slightly different to a normal DCT which uses normal gears.

Planetary gearsets are found in the normal torque converter gearboxes and are generally more reliable...
I think gears were never the problem in the DCT. The actuators failed and clutches got overheated due to the strain of B2B traffic. I'm guessing the planetary gear system doesn't mean much as unlike a TC, DCTs work like a binary system: 0 or 1- they have to engage or disengage. The fluid coupling on the TC allows for a differential in speed.
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Old 1st July 2020, 14:48   #28
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
I've never heard of this company Punch Powetrain and there's no mention of them on Wikipedia. Looks like it is associated with the PSA group which isn't doing well around the globe.
The slushbox in the Hexa, which has been hailed for it's smoothness and efficient operation, has been developed by this very same company; so, they're definitely not incapable.

And yes, I too would prefer Tata to come up with a similar well-tuned torque converter rather than a DCT for the Nexon. Heck, even plonk a TC in the Tiago, and it'd make for a great compact automatic hatch in a sea of AMTs.

EDIT : Sorry, looks like both are different firms. The one in the Hexa was from Punch PowerGlide.

Last edited by ram.iyer95 : 1st July 2020 at 15:10.
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Old 1st July 2020, 14:54   #29
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
I've never heard of this company Punch Powetrain and there's no mention of them on Wikipedia. Looks like it is associated with the PSA group which isn't doing well around the globe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ram.iyer95 View Post
The slushbox in the Hexa, which has been hailed for it's smoothness and efficient operation, has been developed by this very same company; so, they're definitely not incapable.
The company is Punch Powerglide.

Quoting from Team BHP official review:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aditya View Post
Driving the 2.2L Diesel AT

The automatic gearbox is sourced from Punch Powerglide, France. It is used in a number of American cars (was in the earlier Cadillac ATS & CTS too).
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Old 1st July 2020, 15:05   #30
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Default Re: Is this the Tata Nexon DCT?

Punch powertrain and powerglide seems to be different companies. Hexa had auto box from powerglide while nexon and altroz may get DT-1 DCT from powertrain as per the Autocar india report
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