[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by fiestarry

Choose your heroes wisely.

Give a list of your heroes. People will show how wise you were in choosing your heros. If not right off the top of the head, a little search will show us his dark side or follies. If we say our elected leader can't be wrong then so are the other elected leaders of other nations. Japanese atrocities during second world war were extremely brutal. May be that necessitated nuking them. Who are we to question their elected leader when according to some here we cannot question our own elected leader?

[hserus]

Originally Posted by racer_ash

I wonder if all the infighting here is actually relevant now. We are in for a 21 day lockdown with nowhere to go. Even if fuel were 10rs a litre, we cannot go on a golden quadrilateral drive, can we?

I don't know, how are provisions and essential goods reaching your city from some other city? By truck coming down the golden quadrilateral? And what do trucks run on, I wonder?

[fiestarry]

The problem with most people is that they assume that they are better than everyone who is in a position higher than themselves. This is common in professional hierarchies and other spheres too.
Unleashing their ill conceived but well written diatribes on everything going on, specially with so much free time, has become a must do for these people.
At a time when we must express solidarity with the Govt and fight the virus, many think that they live in a welfare state which should not only dole out freebies at their very behest but should also run the country according to the whims of idle people. A bit of sacrifice would go a long way in keeping the peace.
I dread to think what these people would be upto if the country, God forbid, were to be at war.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by fiestarry

At a time when we must express solidarity with the Govt and fight the virus, many think that they live in a welfare state which should not only dole out freebies at their very behest but should also run the country according to the whims of idle people. A bit of sacrifice would go a long way in keeping the peace.

Look, at least two of the government's decisions so far have been ill advised to say the least related to corona (I am not sure why this became a corona discussion there is another thread for that, but anyway.. mods may want to move these to the covid discussion thread)

1. That come out to your balcony and clap - which lots of people interpreted as "come out onto the streets, take out processions, do the garba and clap"

2. 4 hours notice for a 3 week stay in place - people immediately heard the announcement and rushed to the shops to stock up on provisions, thronged petrol pumps to fill up, rushed to the bus stand and railway station to head off to their hometown as they have no chance of surviving here for 3 weeks without earnings.

Both these ruined every notion of social distancing by artificially increasing crowds, and then spread the virus far and wide to every district and nearby states.

Running the country is the government's prerogative. But questioning government decisions where they are unwise is something that is a fundamental right of every citizen. Regardless of the situation.

[saket77]

^ 1. Government wanted to Unite people in some way and lift everyone’s spirit in the situation. Including that of the frontline people. They didn’t ask to come out dumb things with a pulse on street. PM mentioned explicitly to come out in the balcony.

2. PM again explicitly mentioned to stay wherever you are. If one can’t interpret simple plain words and plan to throng public transport despite being most of them already shut, reasons known to everyone then I guess those people will be subject to natural selection. Due to them, others will suffer too.

I will to go one step further and say this- the way people are still in the streets, government will have no option other than imposing a curfew and then again we will have a discussion as to why was this needed and if any other country resorted to curfew in such a situation.

This pandemic will not come without an economic cost. Government will have to spend humongous amounts on healthcare and other things besides jumping start the economy over this phase is over. They will have to distribute free food to the poor. Wheat is being sold to 80 cr people for rs. 2/- NOW! This all cost money. I’ve been otherwise very vocal on increasing excise duties on fuel when in past crude was falling but I support the move now. It’s the need of the hour. We can find lots of fault with everyone in all situations.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by fiestarry

The problem with most people is that they assume that they are better than everyone who is in a position higher than themselves. This is common in professional hierarchies and other spheres too.

There is the other side of it - slavery. And you know what I mean. If not, please read my earlier post.

Originally Posted by fiestarry

At a time when we must express solidarity with the Govt and fight the virus, many think that they live in a welfare state which should not only dole out freebies at their very behest but should also run the country according to the whims of idle people. A bit of sacrifice would go a long way in keeping the peace.

None is against the fact that we should fight against corona. But if someone says that the increased fuel taxes are part of that fight, there is something fundamentally wrong somewhere. My point is clear - please pass the advantage of the cheaper fuel to the public and don't find lame excuses.

Originally Posted by fiestarry

I dread to think what these people would be upto if the country, God forbid, were to be at war.

Now we know where you are dragging things to. Not your problem.

When the one-day curfew was announced, the govt told that none should buy the things in bulk. Now a 21-day curfew is announced with a 4 hour notice.

This is the problem when decisions are taken by people sitting in the middle of black cats and travelling on roads where poverty is covered by walls.

"Demo"cracy.

[Mohan Mathew A]

I have been seeing terms like 'subsidy', 'dole' etc being mentioned in this thread. So let us be clear on one thing, there is no 'subsidy' and fuel is not being 'doled out'.

Yes, the government can tax as much as it wants and they are doing it. But there is no doubt this action is beyond the pale

Excessive taxation, just because you are the government and can do it, is an abuse of power and a form of social injustice perpetuated by the government.

[humyum]

Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A

I have been seeing terms like 'subsidy', 'dole' etc being mentioned in this thread. So let us be clear on one thing, there is no 'subsidy' and fuel is not being 'doled out'.

Yes, the government can tax as much as it wants and they are doing it. But there is no doubt this action is beyond the pale

Excessive taxation, just because you are the government and can do it, is an abuse of power and a form of social injustice perpetuated by the government.

Absolutely!!!

Originally Posted by saket77

This pandemic will not come without an economic cost. Government will have to spend humongous amounts on healthcare and other things besides jumping start the economy over this phase is over. They will have to distribute free food to the poor. Wheat is being sold to 80 cr people for rs. 2/- NOW! This all cost money. I’ve been otherwise very vocal on increasing excise duties on fuel when in past crude was falling but I support the move now. It’s the need of the hour. We can find lots of fault with everyone in all situations.

For days like these RBI had kept a reserve, which in August 2019 was snatched by the government to the tune of 1.76 lakh crores, first time in the history of this country.

https://www.indiatoday.in/business/s...435-2019-08-28

Where is all the high taxes, vats, excise and all that jazz being collected all these years going that they have to arm twist the emergency reserves from RBI leaving RBI with no contingency money?

Please there is no need of any hour, its sheer incompetence

[hserus]

Come on, mate. He has been in politics for decades, and for the last almost 20 years as a CM and a PM. If by now he doesn't know how many Indians will react to such suggestions I am very much mistaken in him.

The increased excise duties come at a massive cost - soaring fuel prices for those for whom it is urgently needed at this time .. that is transporters. Especially diesel must be reduced.

Originally Posted by saket77

^ 1. Government wanted to Unite people in some way and lift everyone’s spirit in the situation. Including that of the frontline people. They didn’t ask to come out dumb things with a pulse on street. PM mentioned explicitly to come out in the balcony.

2. PM again explicitly mentioned to stay wherever you are.

[v1p3r]

It is interesting to note that the UK has actually cut fuel prices. It has gone from 128p per litre to 101p in the last fortnight or so. This is the result of a fixed taxation structure that is not profiteering or opportunistic. Some of our more strident members who live in the West can possibly attest to fuel prices continuously dropping over the last few weeks.

It must be nice to be able to live in places with high social security, falling fuel prices, a reasonable administration, and be able to voice your opinion to the contrary.

[Turbanator]

It’s everywhere, here in Calgary these have dropped from over a $ to less than 0,65 despite CAD depreciating close to 1,45 USD which is nearing historic lows. This is due to lack of demand as well low oil prices. Same in USA as well I believe

https://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPrices/A...lgary%20-%20NE

[Shamegz]

Crude oil prices reached 4 decade low 1$/Barrel:
https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/future/crude%20oil%20-%20electronic

https://markets.businessinsider.com/...low-1029106364

[M00M]

I completely agree with the sentiment in the thread and in general that fuel prices should be reduced in India. I think currently Petrol should be costing 25 rupees a litre and diesel should be around the 30 a litre. However certain considerations exist in our country that exist nowhere due to which i would be adopting a wait and watch policy on the decision of the GOI. USA, UK, whichever country people have mentioned hereinabove the countries are developed and where people honestly pay their taxes, they do now hold black money and sit on them, stored them in their houses. That is in my opinion one of the biggest reasons while our GOI continues to heavily tax fuel and alcohol. If people were to really open up and be transparent and paid taxes honestly the reliance of tax income for GOI on fuel and alcohol would reduce and some clarity would come about. I am expecting some comments here that taxes are high in India, so i would like to state that people should check the income tax rates in UK and USA theyre higher over there, our public transport costs pennies. Not to get political but 70 years of rule, we couldnt see the development that we should have seen. We pressed the accelerator but unfortunately a lot is left and a lot of roadbumps are there. It is our decision whether to be honest taxpayers and contribute or to avoid paying tax and then have GOI depend heavily on fuel and alcohol and pay excess taxes over there.

Also i request the mods to merge this thread with fuel price thread. No point in having two open.

[stanjohn123]

Originally Posted by M00M

I completely agree with the sentiment in the thread and in general that fuel prices should be reduced in India. I think currently Petrol should be costing 25 rupees a litre and diesel should be around the 30 a litre. However certain considerations exist in our country that exist nowhere due to which i would be adopting a wait and watch policy on the decision of the GOI. USA, UK, whichever country people have mentioned hereinabove the countries are developed and where people honestly pay their taxes, they do now hold black money and sit on them, stored them in their houses. That is in my opinion one of the biggest reasons while our GOI continues to heavily tax fuel and alcohol. If people were to really open up and be transparent and paid taxes honestly the reliance of tax income for GOI on fuel and alcohol would reduce and some clarity would come about. I am expecting some comments here that taxes are high in India, so i would like to state that people should check the income tax rates in UK and USA theyre higher over there, our public transport costs pennies. Not to get political but 70 years of rule, we couldnt see the development that we should have seen. We pressed the accelerator but unfortunately a lot is left and a lot of roadbumps are there. It is our decision whether to be honest taxpayers and contribute or to avoid paying tax and then have GOI depend heavily on fuel and alcohol and pay excess taxes over there.

Also i request the mods to merge this thread with fuel price thread. No point in having two open.

I agree to what you say. But if this was the case, then why did govt decide to deregulate fuel prices and reassured that they wouldn't fall back on this decision ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKCN1MG0D2

This is not the right way to do things by squandering away all our money and then blame it on people for not paying their taxes.

[manjubp]

Originally Posted by stanjohn123

I agree to what you say. But if this was the case, then why did govt decide to deregulate fuel prices and reassured that they wouldn't fall back on this decision ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKCN1MG0D2

This is not the right way to do things by squandering away all our money and then blame it on people for not paying their taxes.

It is still completely deregulated. It is not that the government or refineries are making lot of money. Maybe I'm wrong, but let me share my thoughts.
Disclaimer, I am not an economist nor good in money matter, but an engineer by accident.

1. Every company/manufacturing organization has fixed cost of running/producing a product. Like salaries, maintenance, depreciation, rents, etc., This is independent of the volume of the business for short term duration.

2. Then there is variable cost which is function of the volume, like raw material, tax, power consumption for machinery etc. This cost is depend on the volume of business or product manufactured.

End product cost = Fixed cost/Volume + variable cost per unit

Interesting to note that based on volume of business, the share of fixed cost in end product cost is variable and variable cost component of the end product cost is constant.


In this case only variable cost, which is raw material has reduced. However overall fixed cost still remains same.

In normal situation, where volume of business is same, the End product cost would have been reduced with reduction is raw material cost, which is variable cost.

However when the volume of the business is near zero like today, wrt to original volume may be 4 months back, the end product cost may be even higher than the earlier end product cost, when volume and raw material cost was high.

So in summary low volume is big concern, which will take away all the cost advantage of the low raw material cost.