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Old 18th March 2020, 08:38   #91
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

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Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
Is it time to add a poll?

Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices - Your response?

1. OK
2. NOT OK
Sorry, in my humble opinion, the poll is not OK . These issues of policies have a lot of nuance, and grey areas. Reducing issues to a binary of OK/ Not OK reduces Team-BHP to a level of buzzfeed .

Yesterday I was dismayed by the level of politicization in this thread, and now I see the welcome deletion of those posts by the moderators. Keep up the Team-BHP spirit.
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Old 18th March 2020, 09:36   #92
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

Not Subsidizing CARBON??

I think I can live with that
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Old 18th March 2020, 09:53   #93
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

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Originally Posted by kiku007 View Post
Is it time to add a poll?

Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices - Your response?

1. OK
2. NOT OK

Option 1 should be changed to:

OK if the money earned thru taxes used for things that matter at a NATIONAL level.
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Old 18th March 2020, 11:08   #94
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

Domestic fuel demand drops 10% as coronavirus spreads

With sales dropping at petrol pumps and CNG filling stations across several states, March would turn out to be the worst month in several years for fuel consumption ...


Link
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Old 18th March 2020, 14:17   #95
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

To me, this looks like a pointless exercise at this point of time. Now the demand for petroleum products will come down drastically, which means the collection the Govt gets because of the increase in the tax will be pretty less. Once the demand picks up and the crude prices go up, the Govt will have to reduce taxes since the high price will pinch people's pockets. I wonder how much this increase will yield the Government.
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Old 18th March 2020, 15:34   #96
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

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Originally Posted by Slick View Post
While I don't want to get into party vs party,
I remember earlier govt. gave fuel subsidy when crude oil prices exceeded 120$/barrel.
- Slick
I was referring to the state government of Karnataka not the center. At the center, the olden days was tax and then pay subsidy which was kinda stupid. It's hypocrisy at its best when it comes to taxing of petrol/diesel for the parties and they cry foul when not in power and they do the same when they are in.

Instead of saying fuel prices are dictated by market, just say it is a fixed price of ~70 let it be like that, don't artificially keep it floated there by adjusting your taxes.
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Old 18th March 2020, 16:01   #97
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

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Shortbread, I assume by your location that you live in the UK. Living in Aberdeen gives you a unique insight into oil and gas markets, I daresay. Do you, by some chance, work in the industry? Anyway.
Well spotted, Albeit I do not work 'IN' the oil firms but 'WITH' them. I am employed by an auditor. This experience has certainly convinced me that petro must become the most taxed commodity in the world.


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You'll notice that the UK, where you live (?), has great social security, good roads, law and order, and a high standard of living. Doubtless, the high taxes on cars, goods, fuel all support this. Just as doubtless, you will be surprised to know that our tax payments on these same goods, adjusted for PPP, are far higher in India. Do you think it makes sense for the few of us that do pay income tax, to shoulder a further burden, when we see next to no return? I mean, it is no one's case that civic amenities and socio-public infrastructure is nearly identical in the UK and India.
I can confirm for a fact that in terms of socio-public infrastructure, India has made far greater strides than UK over the last 15 years.

No other nation in the world that has grappled with the challenges of cultural, linguistic, religious..... diversity and still made social and economic progress they way India has especially within a democratic system. No other country.

While it is flattering that India is being compared with many of the oldest established and developed western powers, lest we forget this is still a very young nation in global terms.

While many in India view the west with rose tinted glasses, nations here are grappling with increasing poverty and crime, among other issues. While I can see noticeable progress every time I visit home, including an impressive airport, a new metro system, new over bridges, much more commercial convenience etc, in stark comparison to UK's ageing infrastructure (albeit far better than the US), decaying high streets and shop closures, increasing soup kitchens and rampant crime. Pretty sure if you google these topics there are results aplenty. I have no shame in admitting that a fat pay cheque is what keeps me here.
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Old 18th March 2020, 19:05   #98
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

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Originally Posted by payeng View Post
Not Subsidizing CARBON??

I think I can live with that
Buddy I think we're talking about a price increase, quite the opposite of a subsidy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
I can confirm for a fact that in terms of socio-public infrastructure, India has made far greater strides than UK over the last 15 years.
This is because the UK was at an extremely high level 15 years ago. There is comparatively very little scope for improvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
No other nation in the world that has grappled with the challenges of cultural, linguistic, religious..... diversity and still made social and economic progress they way India has especially within a democratic system. No other country.
There is no other country in the world that is this large and has this socio-cultural composition. By definition and by default, we are the only ones. It's a bit like saying no other large country in Australasia has won the ICC World Cup.

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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
While it is flattering that India is being compared with many of the oldest established and developed western powers, lest we forget this is still a very young nation in global terms.
There is no comparison to the West. If anything, we are comparing to China. On that count, we have failed miserably. Our per capita income is less than half in PPP terms, and we have far less geopolitical heft than the Chinese do. Remember, in the 80s, we were at par with them.

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Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
While many in India view the west with rose tinted glasses, nations here are grappling with increasing poverty and crime, among other issues.
You won't find that with me. Lived abroad, paid taxes, moved back willingly after giving up the comforts and pay of a Western life. When you say 'increased poverty and crime', again, the baseline is very low. I struggle to find an argument that Indian and Western law and order and policing situations are the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortbread View Post
While I can see noticeable progress every time I visit home, including an impressive airport, a new metro system, new over bridges, much more commercial convenience etc,
Flashy infrastructure showpieces are not the hallmark of economic and societal growth. Nearly every one of these that you see was built using crony capitalism and insane debt, and all the builders are now bankrupt and living off unreturned loans. Guess who pays for those? That's right, us taxpayers. And anyway, if you think those are hallmarks of progress, do please visit Beijing and Shanghai to understand what can be done when politicians aren't squabbling amongst themselves, pausing only to fleece the common person ever so often.

Which brings me back to my original point - no one grudges paying taxes if they are used for actual social development. Not because of govt thievery or incompetence.
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Old 18th March 2020, 19:40   #99
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

Not OK. For the simple fact that I do not see any accountability on the government's part. Take money by charging higher taxes but then act responsibly. I see more of talk and less of action and kind of tired listening to the 70 years of agony argument.

Also someone mentioned road infrastructure. How does this work? I want to understand this. They charge us road tax. Then they charge me toll for every metre of road that I drive upon and the average rate is more than Rs. 1/ km. In fact for expressways it is more than that. This is besides the fact that many a places, the road is still being made or is already in tatters ( again the question of accountability). And then they still want to charge me more in terms of taxes in the guise of making highways?
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Old 18th March 2020, 19:54   #100
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

Some learned guy has rightly said that in a democracy nobody is a saint, so you have to choose a lesser evil.But in our country whoever you choose becomes a bigger devil. I have read in today's H.T that crude price in July 2008 was 147 $. Imagine the price in 2008 . Must be less than Rs 50 per liter. Multiply it with inflation. Today's rate is about 30 $ per barrel. Petrol is selling for Rs 70. Still the people are trying to justify it. Even God can't help people with slavery inculcated in their minds. That is why the younger generation is leaving for a better future abroad.

Last edited by Sandeep500 : 18th March 2020 at 20:23.
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Old 18th March 2020, 20:03   #101
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
Since you are defending the govt, then why pray announce *deregulated pricing* and claim all accolades for that and then do a slight of hand and announce 'no passing on any benefits of such deregulated prices' to end consumers.

Can the govt or govts be challenged in court for fraud. And if they are so challenged in courts, how many courts in the world can afford to censure their govt except as a playful sword waving kind of gesture.

What was needed was to create a pricing system which was stable and *consistent* throughout and not an ad hoc system which passes on the pennies and holds back the pounds showing up both the country and the govt in poor light. Such a phata abdul approach shows that the country lacks in basic fiscal discipline and then rot is deep that they have to rely on such sleight of hand fund infusion for day-to-day routine expenses.

This when even more broke countries in neighbourhood can pass on benefits of lower prices to their end consumers. Why is India saddled with highest fuel prices in the region. The region being cheek-by-jowl of mideast and transportation expense of petroleum products by sea is minimal as compared to european countries that have to squeeze in through suez and travel through meditteranean and ferry up the atlantic to reach their ports.

The ship is sinking.
Its the arrogance of victories talking here. I had questioned this long time back when they had brought about deregulation and then artificially still kept controlling the price by increasing the excise, I mean what's the point?

These people just don't get the idea that the wheels of the economy run when people have money to spend and they spend it and not when they are taxed to death.
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Old 18th March 2020, 20:13   #102
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

The GST collection of Govt has gone down and they have thought of using this opportunity (fall in crude prices) to shore up revenues. I see nothing inherently wrong with this because they cannot add and increase any tax in these conditions.


This was not ethically right in a sense, but there are larger issues which dictate such policy changes. We need a cut a little slack for government, because managing this huge country with wide cultural and economic disparities is not an easy job for anyone, irrespective of corruption, etc.
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Old 19th March 2020, 00:31   #103
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

Dear Mods, I feel discussion on this thread is going in loops and not contributing to the Team-BHP knowledge base.

I suggest this thread be closed.
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Old 20th March 2020, 06:58   #104
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

Petrol, diesel prices: Excise duty may be hiked once again

Quote:
The government may use the current low oil prices to further increase excise duty on petrol and diesel to raise additional resources required for keep rising deficit under check and meet additional expenditure needs arising from COVID-19 outbreak, a State Bank of India report said on Thursday.

It said that crude at $30/barrel could potentially lower the petrol and diesel prices by ₹10-12 /litre from their present prices assuming excise had stayed at the previous level. But government may limit fall in retail price of the two petroleum products to increase excise duty on them further.

Read more here.
While the Government enlarges it's kitty citing various reasons from economic slump, global slowdown, Corona Virus, low GST collection etc., the common man suffers too. My friend runs a store in one of the malls employing 4 people and the mall is under lockdown for a minimum of two weeks. His overheads don't change for the two weeks - he still has to pay rent and salaries. The mall is not going to waive off rent nor will his staff forgo their salaries. And we can brush it off as collateral damage. I guess it's his patriotic duty to sacrifice himself for the benefit of the Nation. Soldiers at the border.

Last edited by discoverwild : 20th March 2020 at 07:08.
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Old 21st March 2020, 01:19   #105
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Default Re: Crude oil prices crash, but India refuses to slash fuel prices

Normally I would be critical of a govts decision to not pass the benefits and only pass the pain, however under these circumstances its good not to slash prices. There may be a long haul depression in the world markets. We may even see currency tumbling and a lot of export revenue from IT drying up. So this is an opportunity to have enough reserves for socio-economic packages which may be needed in the near future.
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