[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by RaghuVis

A very reasonable demand keeping in mind the situation. But Supreme court should make it very clear that production of BS IV cars stops on 31st Mar 2020. Agreed that most of them have already stopped but it should not give new excuse for manufacturers to produce more BSIV with this extension.

I doubt they'll make some more BS4 cars because they'll have to sell it too before the supposedly extended deadline ends. With reports of piled up inventory, that's an option they'll not tread. Besides, restarting the assembly line in short notice for BS4 may not be easy and can have cascading effect on their present operations such as logistics among many other variables in a manufacturing process. Not worth the game I guess.

They should get reasonable extension owing to the slowdown the market is going through with the onset of Corona pandemic.

[Mik]

It is a no brainer that the extension should be given. These are unprecedented times and no one could have planned for this.
The auto industry was already strained and this Covid led recession will create further havoc. The last thing they need is unsold inventory.

[roy_libran]

Latest News

The Supreme Court has, reportedly, denied hearing the plea - For now.

[Turbanator]

SC refuses to hear plea

[arunramaswamy]

Well done SC. The BS-6 plan was not plucked out of thin air by the SC or the GoI. The manufacturers and their dealers were given ample time to plan for this transition. But now they have come crying for an extension. Shows their nasty lazy attitude towards regulations of this country. This slowdown and corona virus related impact is total bullshit and they could have surely planned better to minimise impact.

I have absolutely no sympathy for the dealers or manufacturers current state. They and their pathetic stinking attitude fully deserve what they are going through now.

[VPJ74]

Fantastic decision by the SC. Enough of this pussyfooting by FADA and others. Emission Standards and Pollution have nothing to do with pandemics.

Even the OEM's have long stopped production and it's time for everyone to move on.

[indian21r]

I understand some of us have bad experiences with manufacturers / dealers. It Feels justified when they are forced to comply.

The possibility of this being a once in a century depression is looming very very high. This is the time government should be ready to boost the confidence of people / businesses. BS4 Vehicles being sold for another couple of months will help the dealers tide over this scenario to some extent. It is not like the few hundreds of cars/bikes is going to cause additional pollution.

If dealers are forced to close, we are looking for huge unemployment / job cuts. The impact on the ground level staff will be profound. We need to be humane at this hour. People/companies make mistakes or were careless. But this is not the time to punish them for that.

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by indian21r

The possibility of this being a once in a century depression is looming very very high. This is the time government should be ready to boost the confidence of people / businesses. BS4 Vehicles being sold for another couple of months will help the dealers tide over this scenario to some extent. It is not like the few hundreds of cars/bikes is going to cause additional pollution.

If dealers are forced to close, we are looking for huge unemployment / job cuts. The impact on the ground level staff will be profound. We need to be humane at this hour. People/companies make mistakes or were careless. But this is not the time to punish them for that.

I'm sorry, but why only Auto industry & specifically only dealers who were not able to clear old stocks? The slowdown is affecting everyone. As I said in my earlier post, what's next? Allow selling non-food items beyond their "best before date" too? Completely banning any lay-offs by companies? Stop TDS for salaried class? Postponing (without any penalty) the EMI payments on housing loans?

Plus, if there is a slowdown, cars/bikes sales will fall. It doesn't matter whether it's BS4 or BS6. It will not sell!

[navpreet318]

There is an attitude of blaming literally everyone around for anything that is happening. You all just jump the gun and go all out that manufacturers are lazy. Dealers are lazy. everyone is lazy! Attitude is a Problem! and what not!!! Easy to blab over something you're all not part of!

Now let me give you a real picture!
I 100% agree with you that the deadline was in place and manufacturers should have pulled up their socks and stopped manufacture and dispatch of BS4 vehicles atleast 6 months back.

No one did! For that they are to be blamed! CORRECT!

Now to talk about the ruling! The ruling should have been a stoppage on manufacturing and not selling. They could have pre-poned the manufacturing deadline by a year for that matter.
Selling is a different matter. You cannot guarantee a sale. No one can say that I will be finished with a sale by this date. Not unless you take up losses on your sale!

Yeah all of you love a great deal and there are people who are thugs but for a honest businessman who makes a 3% gross margin on a vehicle sale, this is bad. Especially when you add interest costs and then employee costs and overheads and then force that dealer to give a discount. That is bad!

This cannot be predicted. Nope! However big an industry guru you rope in, now one can give you a 100% guarantee on a stamp paper that this much sale will happen in this much time.

So right now the condition is that yes the company is helping with a discount but in-spite of that due to the prevalent market conditions the dealer has to shell out an additional 10000/- on a product on which he was making just 2000/-.
Tell me is that fair?
Everyone just blabs out that dealers are a thief and they make a lot of money. Well please be my guest to manage my dealership for a couple of months. Yes there are dealers who make money with stealing but their numbers are low and most of them have been shunted out. There is only a limited time for which you can steal. Law will catch up.

It is really sad to see such absolutely rude replies to this. The dealers are the real scape goats here.

The manufacturer makes his money the moment the vehicle is billed to the Dealer. The customer gets a great discount. The Dealer is left with interest cost of inventory. Cost of Employee Salaries. Cost of infrastructure and then the burden of discounts!

So bash the manufacturers as much as you want. Yes! They could have snapped their finger and stopped production.

We dealers cannot snap our fingers and make a sale happen! Period!

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

Tell me is that fair?

How is this different from a home buyer who is paying Home loan EMI and staying in a rented house because builder delayed the delivery? How is this different from liquor companies that were forced to shut operations overnight in Bihar when Govt decided to go dry? How is that different from Airlines being forced to fly empty due to restrictions on movement? Or hotels that are close to 0 occupancy? Everyone needs a relief, perhaps some more than Auto dealers.

And as you yourself said - no one can guarentee a sale. Even if Govt extends the deadline, dealers may continue to carry old BS4 stocks if people stop buying.

I'm sorry if I sound rude or apathetic.

[navpreet318]

Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator

How is this different from a home buyer who is paying Home loan EMI and staying in a rented house because builder delayed the delivery? How is this different from liquor companies that were forced to shut operations overnight in Bihar when Govt decided to go dry? How is that different from Airlines being forced to fly empty due to restrictions on movement? Or hotels that are close to 0 occupancy? Everyone needs a relief, perhaps some more than Auto dealers.

...............

I never said that you forgive the guilty. Dealer isn't guilty.

Builder is guilty: Punish him by Law!
Liquor isn't a registered commodity which needs registration in RTO. It can be shifted to another state or even another country for sale. Vehicles are made and then VIN Details Entered in Vahan RTO software by the plant itself. It cannot be shifted out of the country for sale.
Airlines are not forced to fly. They fly because they fear they will loose their flying slots in future. They can always opt not to fly.
Hotel industry rooms are not a commodity they are not going to be able to use after a certain date. That is their commodity and they can always use it. It won't expire.

Don't want to sound rude but all your comparisons are absolutely baseless and don't have an iota of sense.

[indian21r]

Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator

I'm sorry, but why only Auto industry & specifically only dealers who were not able to clear old stocks? The slowdown is affecting everyone.

As this is an auto related discussion, I restricted my comments to dealers.

I believe this is the right time for the government to extend Support to all the sectors and people as well. We need people to work and live their routine lives to the maximum possible extent. Delaying things will be better than killing them of completely. The social and economic impact of this will be massive if not addressed step by step. This time the impact is not on one or two segments but across the board as we are too interconnected now.

Originally Posted by navpreet318

Now to talk about the ruling! The ruling should have been a stoppage on manufacturing and not selling.

This is something that I never understood. The cut offs /regulations should be at manufacturer level rather than the sales side.

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by navpreet318

I never said that you forgive the guilty. Dealer isn't guilty.

Builder is guilty: Punish him by Law!
Liquor isn't a registered commodity which needs registration in RTO. It can be shifted to another state or even another country for sale. Vehicles are made and then VIN Details Entered in Vahan RTO software by the plant itself. It cannot be shifted out of the country for sale.
Airlines are not forced to fly. They fly because they fear they will loose their flying slots in future. They can always opt not to fly.
Hotel industry rooms are not a commodity they are not going to be able to use after a certain date. That is their commodity and they can always use it. It won't expire.

Don't want to sound rude but all your comparisons are absolutely baseless and don't have an iota of sense.

Well, liquor is a registered commodity. You can't even move one bottle out of the warehouse/plant without taking excise permission and paying duties. Airlines fly due to fear of losing slots in future, by incurring losses today (with no sight on how long). same is for hotels, just like dealers - incur losses today to continue business in future, or shut down now. All the comparisons are absolutely spot on. Businesses run on risks, and policies are meant to provide a level playing field, not to give preferential treatment to some. Who forced dealers to buy BS4 stocks while they knew the deadline? If manufacturers forced them, better to go to the court against them, rather than asking Govt for a favor. Neither are businesses favoring anyone. Are airlines giving seats for free? They would rather fly on loss. Same for hotels. And same for dealers - they will incur inventory costs, depreciation costs and what not but won't give out old, non-sellable stock for free (heck, not even at a hefty discount as it will be a profit negative). They will rather layoff their staff to keep themselves in business.

There is no charity here, it's business.

[_chikku]

This is a pure failure of planning from manufacturers and dealers end.
" In 2016, the Centre had announced that India would skip the BS5 norms altogether and adopt BS6 norms by 2020 "
This is an excerpt from linked site.
https://auto.ndtv.com/news/will-not-...-court-2180434

Manufacturers and dealers should have shifted to BS6 by now, there was ample time.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator

Who forced dealers to buy BS4 stocks while they knew the deadline?

That's the key question. I've heard about OEMs stuffing inventory down dealers' throats. I'll let Mr.Navpreet confirm this though.

If manufacturers forced them, better to go to the court against them, rather than asking Govt for a favor.

It doesn't sound like the Court will even grant dealers a fair hearing...