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Old 15th April 2020, 18:36   #61
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
... So, if it is this steep in video then it should be substantially more than seen here. No way an MT City could have done any better than your CVT City. In such steep gradients, the moment you change gear in an MT, your car will be bogged down, unless you are an F1-driver quick with shifts...
The City MT does better. You don't need lighting quick gear shifts. Just gain some momentum in first gear and if speed permits shift to 2Nd. No need to do any more gear shifts. The City can do near 100 kmph in 2nd gear itself. Having said that CVT will also get the job done with a bit of a whine and bit of stretch ( rubber band effect ) from the transmission. Honda City CVT is good enough for the average city slicker who visits the mountains once in a while and does not have the skills needed for mountain driving.

Having lived in the mountains for near two decades two types of vehicles' do best in the Hills discounting of course dedicated off roaders with low ratio: 1. Big Diesel MT e.g Bolero DI. Innova 2.5D . Erstwhile Sumo Spacio could climb a 15 degree slope with 8 people on board without throttle input.
2. Short Wheel base MT FWD hatches e.g Maruti Alto. Hyundai Santro etc.

Driving a MT in hills requires little bit of practice. But once you get the hang of it, it becomes your second nature And gives you control like no AT can give. But if you must have an AT, the torque convertor AT works best in the hills.
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Old 15th April 2020, 20:13   #62
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

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Originally Posted by MaanSingh View Post
I may be wrong but dont think Seltos IVT/CVT has low gear mode.
Hi MaanSingh,

I didn't know that about the Seltos.

I believe if the cars don't have that low gear lock mode, then they should be equipped with a hill ascent / descent feature , which essentially is pretty much the same thing.

If that is also not there, then my recommendation is to drive slow, light footed and maintain a constant lower speed. If you accelerate and try going faster, chances are, that the ecu will detect a higher speed and shift to a higher gear which might put undue stress on the engine and all.

Trust that helps.
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Old 15th April 2020, 20:41   #63
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

Welcome to the forum MaanSingh.


I own a Petrol Honda Jazz CVT and have been using it in the hills in Coorg. There's no problem while driving uphill or down. You will have to use the S or L mode to use engine braking while going down hill.
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Old 15th April 2020, 22:35   #64
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

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Originally Posted by pgsagar View Post
No way an MT City could have done any better than your CVT City. In such steep gradients, the moment you change gear in an MT, your car will be bogged down, unless you are an F1-driver quick with shifts. Yous acceleration form zero is also very impressive, at that point where a Scorpio blocked your way.
That's not me driving in the video, it is some guy from South India itself, driving his Fiat Linea all the way to Mcloedganj, a quick surf through his Youtube channel shown that.

That said, I have even driven my Polo petrol manual up the same route, you don't need any F1 reflexes to shift up there - because you can't shift to second in any manner. The gradient is too steep and the narrow road doesn't allow you to hit enough speed for maintaining the momentum in second. Once you stop, use the handbrake rule, of one thinks that he/she can climb solely on clutch balancing - either the clutch will get burnt, or the car will bog down.

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Originally Posted by JediKnight View Post
The City MT does better. You don't need lighting quick gear shifts. Just gain some momentum in first gear and if speed permits shift to 2Nd.
Indeed, that's a 1.5l motor any way. No matter how poor the low end is, the anti stall is still strong enough to not get you bogged down if you are using right method. Additionally, once it starts moving, then it keeps on making quick progress.

You guys may call me stupid for this statement, diesels have good low end - yes they have, the starting torque is good. But a petrol car can climb hills at 1500 rpm and can even accelerate without up shifting, a diesel can never. Let your turbo diesel fell to 1500 once, and entire progress is lost - downshift to second or first, let it gain some momentum, then again upshift.

I personally love the big block petrol motors, I am still not very much convinced about the diesels overall, until it's those 2.5l and above sized ones.

Quote:
Honda City CVT is good enough for the average city slicker who visits the mountains once in a while and does not have the skills needed for mountain driving.
you got it wrong there sir. The CVT runs at relatively higher RPM, but I rate it really good when it comes to driving in hills. I have taken city CVT to Gangotri, Mcloedganj and Munsyari, not even once I felt that this car is lagging anywhere. Its only during the downhill drives that CVT requires a bit of more usage of brakes; else it is good enough for any kind of hilly terrain.

That's Honda man, and I find them to be CVT specialists. The cars the driven throughout the world. I don;t see a reason to even think that this car shouldn't be suitable for hills, no matter how bad city CVT is (If it is) - I am sure it will still be better than those anemic petrol powered Polo, i20, Punto, Figo etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhilarni View Post
I believe if the cars don't have that low gear lock mode, then they should be equipped with a hill ascent / descent feature , which essentially is pretty much the same thing.
No automatic car will upshift while going up the steep inclines, I have never seen one upshifting until the favorable speed is reached.

In DSG equipped cars, you will notice this love for upshifting (Hexa too does it). What happens is, the car shifts up, soon the ECU detects the loss of momentum, and immediately a downshift is done.

Quote:
If that is also not there, then my recommendation is to drive slow, light footed and maintain a constant lower speed. If you accelerate and try going faster, chances are, that the ecu will detect a higher speed and shift to a higher gear which might put undue stress on the engine and all.
Normally the ECU has some kind of feedback mechanism, which takes the load also into consideration. With same amount of feedback, the automatic car that will reach even D3, D4 in plains, still maintains D1 or D2 only while going uphill. ECU is not as innocent as we think of it to be, at times.

Last edited by VKumar : 15th April 2020 at 22:40.
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Old 15th April 2020, 23:14   #65
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

So this meets my experience and what i have seen in the hills. I have travelled extensively in Kumaun and Garhwal hills over the years and have seen these two types of vehicles in abundance. Have spoken to many drivers about the kind of vehicle one needs over there, and its always been Alto or Bolero or the likes. I have personal experience of driving an Alto on Almora-Binsar stretch.

Chevrolet Tavera is another vehicle that i can personally vouch for. I travelled from Kathgodam to Munsiyari in a Tavera and it was remarkable. Surprisingly, also on the comfort front. Even today, i never say no to a
Tavera cabbie. Otherwise its always an Innova.

To another post: a driver shared this trick with me when i asked him how he manages to stop and go at such steep inclines (Mussoorie to Landour with all the incoming traffic). He told me that its a common practice in the hills. In 1st gear, press the clutch and the break together. Release the clutch bit by bit till you feel that the vehicle wants to move ahead, and then release the brake.

This is different from the hand brake trick where accelerator is used.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JediKnight View Post
Having lived in the mountains for near two decades two types of vehicles' do best in the Hills discounting of course dedicated off roaders with low ratio: 1. Big Diesel MT e.g Bolero DI. Innova 2.5D . Erstwhile Sumo Spacio could climb a 15 degree slope with 8 people on board without throttle input.
2. Short Wheel base MT FWD hatches e.g Maruti Alto. Hyundai Santro etc.
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Old 16th April 2020, 08:36   #66
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

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Originally Posted by nandadevieast View Post
To another post: a driver shared this trick with me when i asked him how he manages to stop and go at such steep inclines (Mussoorie to Landour with all the incoming traffic). He told me that its a common practice in the hills. In 1st gear, press the clutch and the break together. Release the clutch bit by bit till you feel that the vehicle wants to move ahead, and then release the brake.
It's an old trick and a proven one in fact. But the issue is that, this trick works only on the big diesel motors and a few petrols too (I like the 1.6 VAG petrol for its solid low end in fact). Even a fully loaded Ertiga also fails if you apply this on it.

When it comes to petrols, other than the VW and Skoda petrols (Even the puny 1.0 and 1.2 petrol of VW), no other petrol cars (Be it Honda, Maruti or Hyundai) easily do this trick, probably the VAG ones have an aggressive anti stall that the car keeps moving.
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Old 16th April 2020, 10:07   #67
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

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Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
It's an old trick and a proven one in fact. But the issue is that, this trick works only on the big diesel motors and a few petrols too (I like the 1.6 VAG petrol for its solid low end in fact). Even a fully loaded Ertiga also fails if you apply this on it.
The common alternative is to slip the clutch a wee bit while giving some revs on the throttle. Keep the handbrake engaged. At the point when you feel the car moving or trying to move ahead, release the handbrake and ensure that the throttle input is gradually increased. May not be for novice drivers, but is an acquired skill which is highly useful not only on hills, but on the many sloping roads of a city like Bangalore. Most petrol cars can accomplish this without too much of hassle. Have been using this method for decades.
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Old 16th April 2020, 11:29   #68
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

Some observations and questions on CVT , AMT in the context of this thread.

1. Current City CVT - Rolls back on parking ramps without throttle input, it tries to hold but not successful in all places. Is it holding the vehicle on brakes or transmission on an incline? Will creeping forward on an incline over heat the transmission?

2. Celerio AMT - It appears to be holding the vehicle on an incline using transmission without throttle input, eventually I could smell the clutch. Does other AMTs with creep function hold the vehicle on inclines with brakes or transmission?
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Old 16th April 2020, 12:55   #69
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

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Originally Posted by Kosfactor View Post
1. Current City CVT - Rolls back on parking ramps without throttle input, it tries to hold but not successful in all places. Is it holding the vehicle on brakes or transmission on an incline? Will creeping forward on an incline over heat the transmission?

2. Celerio AMT - It appears to be holding the vehicle on an incline using transmission without throttle input, eventually I could smell the clutch. Does other AMTs with creep function hold the vehicle on inclines with brakes or transmission?
Relying on the CVT or DCT / AMT / MT transmission systems for holding the car on the incline is not recommended. That is the parking brake's job. More and more, we are seeing cars with auto hold / anti roll back features which apply the brakes automatically. If a car is not equipped with such a system, one should use the manual handbrake.

The clutch burning smell clearly indicates that the transmission is trying to do something it was never meant to.

Last edited by vipul_singh : 16th April 2020 at 12:57.
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Old 16th April 2020, 13:29   #70
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

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Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
If a car is not equipped with such a system, one should use the manual handbrake.

The clutch burning smell clearly indicates that the transmission is trying to do something it was never meant to.
I agree with you , however from a user`s perspective this is the scenario.

When I`m on an incline and I have stopped using my footbrake, i`m expecting the car to roll back as I take my foot off, but it does not and I being ignorant about the working of the transmission do not bother to apply handbrake as well. Certainly this did not happen for long as the vehicles ahead had moved on and so did I.
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Old 18th April 2020, 10:48   #71
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

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Originally Posted by raihan View Post
Having done Spiti Valley in a Brezza(no traction control + FWD + good GC) All I can say is that it's crucial to carry momentum while going over steep/slippery slopes. You will not be able to stop in middle & take off in 1st gear unless you have a 4x4 with low range.

O.T: Let's not bring nandi hills into the pic as it has an awesome paved + wide road. Even auto rickshaws do it easily(RWD helps?)

The best combo for hills without proper roads would be (Good G.C + RWD) learnt this after seeing Innovas & Sumos fly past!
Engine power output doesn't come anywhere into the equation!
It's all about traction.
I agree on this part, few years back me and friends did a road trip to a hilly region. We were supposed to go to a resort which had steep gradient. The vehicles in question where a RWD Hexa XE and a FWD Lodgy RxZ, both filled to max with people and luggage. Lodgy was struggling with wheel spins but Hexa didn't even stall it just went going up and up easily!

I guess RWD in situations like this will perform better than FWD. Do note that I wasn't even revving Hexa that much, so guess the max torque was not achieved while Lodgy was revving harder.

That one moment made me fall in love with Hexa and I was eyeing the 4x4 to buy and still eyeing!
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Old 18th April 2020, 13:06   #72
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

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Originally Posted by Kannan View Post
I agree on this part, few years back me and friends did a road trip to a hilly region. We were supposed to go to a resort which had steep gradient. The vehicles in question where a RWD Hexa XE and a FWD Lodgy RxZ, both filled to max with people and luggage. Lodgy was struggling with wheel spins but Hexa didn't even stall it just went going up and up easily!
Which hill station was this? Did the Lodgy make it up? Having traction control would have helped here.
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Old 18th April 2020, 16:56   #73
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

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Originally Posted by JediKnight View Post
But if you must have an AT, the torque convertor AT works best in the hills.
I fully agree to this. My 4 speed i10 AT (2012) is always more than eager to go up the slope, and somehow always manages to stay in the power band, making driving effortless. My i10 MT (2103),however, is always ever so reluctant to pick up the paces while going uphill, making driving a pain.

With automobiles now coming with AMT and CVT, you'll either need a RWD, a diesel or old school TC to have fun driving in the hills
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Old 20th April 2020, 12:35   #74
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

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Originally Posted by nikhilarni View Post
Hi Sir,

Now that you say so, I will try using the paddle shifters on my glc. I have never really tried using it earlier.

But all our automatics have a Low Gear mode, which is essentially for conditions like this, isn't it. Have you tried using the Low Mode and what's your observation vis-a-vis using the manual mode / paddle shifters ?
If you have a L mode, you can try using it. Mine does not have it. But still manual control is better in hills where you are the best judge of gear shifts.
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Old 20th April 2020, 19:18   #75
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Default Re: Is a Petrol CVT suitable for driving on steep hills?

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Originally Posted by raihan View Post
Which hill station was this? Did the Lodgy make it up? Having traction control would have helped here.
It was Chikmagalur but that place doesn't have any gradient, but the resort had a steep gradient.

Lodgy did made it, but few of them had to get down and get into resort owner's Thar which had 4x4 and he used low range.

My friend had to leave the i10 at the bottom parking place. Owner made it pretty clear that i10 will not be able to climb up.
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