[PrideRed]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

It is expensive but after you spend some time in it, you realise it is a very niche car for someone who has very specific needs. This is the reason it is sold out for this year.

Sold out?? I heard it has been quite popular among film stars, but did not expect it to go out of stock so soon. What is the number of pieces allotted anyway?

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by PrideRed

Sold out?? I heard it has been quite popular among film stars, but did not expect it to go out of stock so soon. What is the number of pieces allotted anyway?

Just short of 300 cars sold out. I think the exact count is 280.

I am not sure if the new price is for next batch of cars or part of that 280 cars who are yet to take delivery.

[reihem]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

It doesn't sink in cause this is a Hybrid vehicle with 2 electric motors front and back. The front electric motor can give 140BHP and the rear can provide 67BHP.

Combined power of all 3 power trains is ~320 bhp but overall power is closer to ~196BHP since the system decides how to use the 3 power trains on it's own.

Let's get the facts right before putting down the car

It is expensive but after you spend some time in it, you realise it is a very niche car for someone who has very specific needs. This is the reason it is sold out for this year.

Can someone throw some light on what sold out means ? To dealers ? To customers ? Are there 180 Vellfires on the roads right now ? I've never understood what the term means.

I bought my Kona after it was "sold out for the year", never got clarity on what the term means in reality.

[avishar]

Originally Posted by reihem

Can someone throw some light on what sold out means ? To dealers ? To customers ? Are there 180 Vellfires on the roads right now ? I've never understood what the term means.

I bought my Kona after it was "sold out for the year", never got clarity on what the term means in reality.

If I were to look at Team Bhp's June Monthly Figures & Analysis (June 2020 : Indian Car Sales Figures & Analysis), in between February and June Toyota has dispatched 219 Vellfires.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by reihem

Can someone throw some light on what sold out means ? To dealers ? To customers ? Are there 180 Vellfires on the roads right now ? I've never understood what the term means.

I bought my Kona after it was "sold out for the year", never got clarity on what the term means in reality.

The allocated cars for India have been booked and spoken for. However not all cars are delivered so some might cancel the bookings.

As Avishar mentioned, 219 cars dispatched and no dealers really keep inventories of a 1cr Toyota so, those 219 are most likely spoken for.

60 more are yet to get delivered and my guess is no more kits planned for this year.

[avishar]

Vellfire's price tag certainly raises a lot of eyebrows.

But I think the Indian luxury car buyer has matured a lot since they have started to put a price on things other than a badge. Wealthy families have gone through all the stages of having "arrived" in India. They bought their first entry level German luxury car, then a C-Class then an E and have climbed all the way upto an S-Class. They upgraded their S-Classes to Maybach S-Classes and even ventured into Range Rovers.

But then what? The jump to a Bentley is substantial. Till when do they play keeping up with the joneses? Luxury sedans and some of the Range Rovers are a bit delicate for India. Can't take the S-Class to the factory. It is a hassle in the inner city, the Range Rover keeps breaking down, and even with someone with an X5 or a GLS the backseat comfort and the ride is not super plush.

I am sure many previous S-Class owners have downgraded to E-Class EWBs or just caved in and used a top-spec Innova for those who need to sit in a car for long periods in a day. The fat cat at the back is tired of buying bigger and top-spec models of German luxury cars because he HAS To upgrade every few years. At the end, does the engine-size matter so much when it is going to be chauffer driven all day at city-speeds? Does he really need a 350 instead of a 250? Or a V8 when a V6 will do? Or does he really even care about the power. That is how they are thinking.

When one looks at it that way, 83 lakhs is not much for someone who was going to buy an S-Class. Or even a GLE! They cost more than 83 lakhs these days and that rear-seat is nothing extra-ordinary.

On the other hand the Vellfire is like an S-Class Pullman! It is easy to step in, bullet-proof reliability and had it not been for that super-chromed nose, pretty innocuous.

This is one of the reasons why the Carnival is also doing well. Rs 35 lakhs for a van and it is not even an Innova, who will buy? But Kia was selling a 1000 of them a month pre-covid.

[reihem]

I agree with this assessment entirely. This is the point I alluded to in my earlier post. The bizarre pricing will find takers, and takers in numbers too. In every sense we are to blame for this. I don’t think either of my cars are worth what I paid for them. But, the fact is I coughed up the cash for both. The joke’s on me.

And thus the 1 cr MPV will find it’s niche.

This reminds me of the debate around real estate pricing; multiple factors including an abundance of black money in circulation allowed property prices to reach a certain level. Yes there were takers at that price. Doesn’t mean the pricing “made sense”.

[Starfire]

Originally Posted by haldar_siliguri

83 lakhs for a 115 hp/198 Nm vehicle. Let that sink in.

It's also the most reliable car you'll get for 83 lakhs, let that sink in as well . In all honesty, badge value aside, not everyone spending 83 lakhs wants power. I've seen many people spending 1 Cr but never even sitting on the wheel of their car. I think in India, there are more people near the 1 Cr price point who want luxury rather than power, after all the petrol head is a rare breed.

Think of it this way, it offers the business class seat comfort of a jet which you can use every day! Also, one's old parents won't complain of their arthritis pain flaring up like when they have to go through the daily cumbersome ingress and egress of say like sitting in a E-class. Does it justify the cost of 83 lakhs? Probably not, but neither did any business class seat ticket of a jet anyway. Yet you find many people going for it!

IMO, if I had the money to plonk on a 2nd luxury car, I wouldn't mind considering this, simply for its WOW factor and being the unique one on the road. Heck, even my rich uncle who owns a almost similar costing E-class LWB would want to try out the back seat of my car!

[sreeharipv]

Over here in Kuala Lumpur this is the vehicle of choice of the rich Chinese (my observation). My parking floor has 3 or 4 of these. What I hate is the tacky styling. I think they should bring out the Chrysler Pacifica or the Honda Odyssey and then we'll see. Kia Carnival is a very well styled minivan for what its worth.

[roshanvalsan]

When the battery pack is exhausted after driving for a while, does the power output drop to 115bhp (ICE power)? The battery pack is quite small to run larger distances right? I have a feeling this might be a dumb question!

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by roshanvalsan

I have a feeling this might be a dumb question!

The question is not dumb. However, the answer will make most of us feel dumb. That is because the answer is very technical and requires some deep technical background to understand this component called power split device or PCD. I surely don't understand the answer, eventhough I read it multiple times.

You can start here: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post3144614 (Toyota Hybrid Technology: Drive & Experience @ Japan)

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by roshanvalsan

When the battery pack is exhausted after driving for a while, does the power output drop to 115bhp (ICE power)? The battery pack is quite small to run larger distances right? I have a feeling this might be a dumb question!

It's a very good question and not dumb at all.

The system never runs the battery pack down to empty. Whenever the battery SOC (state of charge) drops below a threshold, the ICE engine power is redirected in charging the battery.

Therefor the actual power output may not really drop to 115bhp. The combined power is 196bhp but the system decides how much power is needed. Therefore at most times you may get 160-180bhp and this may go up to 196bhp for short durations.

The combined power is more than 300 BHP but because they probably don't want to drain the battery completely they have kept 196bhp max combined.

[audioholic]

I feel it would have been a simpler and cheaper setup if Toyota had ditched the transmission and made this car a diesel electric loco type. The anyway have both axles powered by the motor. The engine can run an alternator, which will charge the batteries as well as power the motors however the engine itself will run independent of accelerator input. The powertrain control unit can decide what happens with the engine while the accelerator input by the driver should exclusively drive the motor. By using two motors as well as a conventional powertrain and battery, it's complicating things, making the car expensive with no real benefit apart from being able to run the car purely on the engine when needed.

[roshanvalsan]

Thanks to you guys, now I have a better understanding of the PCD and battery management.
Yesterday, I got a chance to drive the Vellfire. It was a quick drive and I got barely 15 minutes to play with it.

The colour they brought was Pearl white. IMHO, the Vellfire does not look pretty. But it does have road presence. I found the excessive chrome distasteful and the boxy looks didn't help either.

When I got into the driver's seat, first thing I noticed was the infotainment system. It has that aftermarket look and feel which I guess all Toyota vehicles have. But the interface was smooth and has Android auto and Apple CarPlay. The driver and co-passenger seats are large and are ventilated. Co-passenger seat has leg support like a recliner, which is quite rare and a lovely feature. The buttons and gear knob didn't feel premium enough for a car this expensive. But being Toyota, they should last a lifetime.

When I entered the middle row and got into the recliner captain seats, I finally found understood why this car makes sense for a lot of people out there. Supremely comfortable with a wide recline range and leg rest, this is undoubtedly one of the best car seats you can get for the money. AC works well in the middle row and the seats are ventilated as well. Only thing Toyota missed out was the massage function. The seat belts are integrated into the seats, which is a nice feature. The infotainment screen and speakers are impressive.

Third row is quite roomy and useable for adults, even during long journeys. I didn't like the placement of the hand rests though, I found them too low. These seats also have a good recline range. You can control the middle row from the third row, which can make getting out a little easier. Rear windows are big enough and have retractable screens too, just like the middle row.

Now it was time to drive the behemoth. I didn't expect much from this titan of a car and it didn't surprise me. The motor is adequate at best and takes a while to respond to your inputs. The power delivery is linear, so your boss in the middle seat won't kick you from the back! When you put your foot down, you can feel the motor strain while it struggles to pull this huge 6 seater to 3 digit speeds. Drive it sedately like how it is meant to be driven, it kind of goes into a relaxed mode and takes you places quite happily. I asked the sales guy about the PCD and he didn't have a clue!

We don't expect this car to break any speed records, but Toyota could have done better with the suspension though, as that is what a lot of buyers would buy this car for. On broken roads, the ride was quite bumpy and during light braking, the car would lean forward. So if you encounter bad roads during your commute and if your driver is a little hard on his braking, you will not enjoy this car.

We had a previous generation GLS and drove the new generation a week back. It is around 20L more expensive, but people considering a Toyota van for around 1cr can stretch their budget that much for a premium Mercedes SUV. Unless you really want those middle seats. New GLS is so much better to drive, has a beautiful infotainment system with premium looking screens, comfortable air suspension and good enough second and third rows. If it was my money, I would go for the GLS.

[CARDEEP]

Saw the Velfire second time today (saw it last time I March before Lockdown, haven't ventured out much). This was a real close encounter. It looks more like a dressed up ambulance than the luxury wheels Toyota is projecting it to be. There are better luxury rides available abroad. The 3rd row looked cramped than cheaper stablemate Innova.

Moreover, barring the height it looks smaller than Innova (lengthwise), & the ground clearance is lower too. IMO DC can do better job with Innova's interior modifications than this overpriced ride. Definitely not worth 80-85 lakhs. Hybrid or Diesel, I don't think they should have sold it over 60 lakhs on road.

Toyota is shamelessly cashing on reputation here. I believe Toyota's overpriced products have contributed to success of Hyundai/Kia & MG than helped the Japanese car makers.