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Old 7th September 2020, 16:16   #151
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

I understand that they are running a business and ultimately they only care about their balance sheets and not the customer.

In their heydays Maruti diesels were the most pushed cars citing mostly the one point: Fuel Efficiency. How it's cheaper to afford than a petrol car in 5-6 years was the selling pitch IIRC. Suddenly one day they get a rude wake up call by the name of BS VI norms and they find that they don't have diesel models for that. So instead of getting a diesel engine ready (long announced 1.5L. Where is it now?) they have taken the easiest route possible, that is to disavow their blue eyed boy diesels.

Now I will go out on a limb here and say that the day MS gets a BS VI compliant diesel engine, they will tout it as the ultimate savings machine and market it such. They will conveniently forget that they ever told petrols were better and may be even use the sane ad campaign. Just substitute petrol car with a diesel one. Calculate kia kya? Probably backed with some 'research data and numbers' that only MSIL and God know who came up with.

And then too, we here on TBhp will boil our blood at the audacity of MSIL but they will happily carry on, because majority trusts them blindly. I'm drawing parallels with MSIL and politicians here and can't spot the difference.

I mean no disrespect to current or future MSIL car owners and I too was going to pick up an Alto AMT for city runabout but dropped the plan due to the uncertain times ahead. Rant over.
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Old 7th September 2020, 18:32   #152
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

It's not what Maruti does but what people think about Maruti. Some people are so dumb that they don't even know the names of other brands. Even if they do, they just don't want to take any chances. With such mad obsession, companies like Maruti & Hero can continue to make money laughing at the competition for trying so hard!
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Old 7th September 2020, 18:50   #153
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

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Originally Posted by Mr.Beat View Post
Companies are fictional entities that run to make profits first. If I was in their place, My business's existence was at stake, what would you recommend me doing?
No one argues that this is a brilliant campaign, so brilliant in fact, that they continue to exploit even their greatest weaknesses and make it strengths, be it lower weight for fuel efficiency, lesser features for cost reduction, structure that crumples for safety (albeit that being spun by a few aficionados) and now, rising cost of diesel for its omission.

Like you don't want to be tagged a fanboy, none of us want to be tagged as bashers either, all of us growing up in the 90s and 00s, which constitute the majority of us BHPians, have owned a Suzuki at one point, with the Maruti logo even.

However, every little thing is noticed by consumers over a course of time, like Apple with its planned obsolescence, was dethroned by Samsung and now Samsung is pulling an Apple too.. the once dominant BSNL with their draconian, bureaucratic way of functioning was pumelled by Airtel. Consumers have a long tolerance but when they jump ship they jump en masse, and that might just be Marutis greatest enemy in the coming years. However, that doesn't take anything away from the fond memories of the Maruti 800 we once owned, I was sad to see it go.

Maruti is in unknown territory now, one can keep bringing up the Toyota partnership and their nearly unstoppable multi-pronged sales assault, but that has no bearing on the failures of Maruti as a brand by itself.
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Old 7th September 2020, 20:10   #154
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
Maruti has been pretty cheeky from the past decade, the only reason they are still number one is because of their die-hard fanbase....

...Now what? Make safer, more solid cars and rain insults over the existing 10+ million customers by saying why buy unsafe cars?
Well Said Sir! I have always been perplexed, at times infuriated, by the fact that a company which has such a dim view of the Indian Car Buyer, has consistently led the Sales charts!

The other way to look at it is, they probably cater very strictly to what their customer base has wanted over the years. And in this context, I would be very happy if they suddenly start making solid cars that ace the crash tests. This would atleast mean the mindset of majority of the Indian car buyers has shifted! But like you said, Ain't gonna happen!
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Old 7th September 2020, 23:09   #155
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Why talk only of the missing diesel engine ,maruti does not even offer a small turbo petrol engine which the home grown Tatas and Mahindras have in their portfolio.

Don't know if the 1.5 litre diesel and 1.2 petrol turbo engines could be a direct fit in Brezza and S cross /Ciaz but IMHO, maruti may find it convenient and mutually beneficial in the Brezza and S Cross model sales of they can put up diesel and petrol turbo engines. Similarly ,the tigor diesel engine could be used in maruti celerio. Afterall,maruti was using the Fiat produced 1.3 DDIS for 15 years .

Since Tatas are also looking out for a chinese investor which maruti could be .This could be win win situation for both.
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Old 8th September 2020, 05:55   #156
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

My father tends to buy any car but not Maruti. In fact he hates Tin ka dabba so much so when when Maruti launched their Alto back in 2000s, he bought Daewoo Matiz instead. Coming to 2012 when swift diesel was talk of the town he bought Chevy Beat instead. Now coming to 2019, when MSIL launched their New Facelift K10, i bought KWID . Now we have three cars unique car in our home and not a single one of them is giving us monetary pain. And yes, mileage is top notch on every single one of them. So MARUTI, if people can easily live with these exotics, they hell can sure live without a MARUTI in future.
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Old 9th September 2020, 12:24   #157
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Quote:
Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
No one argues that this is a brilliant campaign, so brilliant in fact, that they continue to exploit even their greatest weaknesses and make it strengths, be it lower weight for fuel efficiency, lesser features for cost reduction, structure that crumples for safety (albeit that being spun by a few aficionados) and now, rising cost of diesel for its omission.

Like you don't want to be tagged a fanboy, none of us want to be tagged as bashers either, all of us growing up in the 90s and 00s, which constitute the majority of us BHPians, have owned a Suzuki at one point, with the Maruti logo even.

However, every little thing is noticed by consumers over a course of time, like Apple with its planned obsolescence, was dethroned by Samsung and now Samsung is pulling an Apple too.. the once dominant BSNL with their draconian, bureaucratic way of functioning was pumelled by Airtel. Consumers have a long tolerance but when they jump ship they jump en masse, and that might just be Marutis greatest enemy in the coming years. However, that doesn't take anything away from the fond memories of the Maruti 800 we once owned, I was sad to see it go.

Maruti is in unknown territory now, one can keep bringing up the Toyota partnership and their nearly unstoppable multi-pronged sales assault, but that has no bearing on the failures of Maruti as a brand by itself.
I agree with you. Let the consumers make the decision.

A Maruti does well because it understand the priorities of the customers well ( Higher fuel efficiency vs better safety, less cost vs feature loaded cars etc)

The point I don't agree is that Maruti is responsible for people buying cars with lower safety or that they lack ethics. A Business's primary aim is to make money. Why would a ciggarate company even exist if we know the harm caused by it and that young people can get addicted. Is the existence of such a company ethical?

I would blame the consumer for having the wrong priorities and this is the point I was trying to put across. The discuss about ethics and forcing products upon customers which are not as per their priority but "good for them" doesn't hold value.
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Old 9th September 2020, 13:35   #158
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

After losing their bread and butter diesel to BS VI norms, Maruti has not made any effort to up the ante on their underpowered Petrols. With the competition truly heating up, I will not be surprised if Maruti loses its leadership position in near future. The emperor can run naked and pass it off as the new normal through their ads...but surely the customers will grow up especially since Marutis best engine is no longer in the race. Hopefully Maruti does not realise it too late. Suzuki is a bit player in Europe and America due to their hare brained strategy. I can see it coming in India as well.
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Old 21st September 2020, 20:03   #159
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Okay , was fiddling with the Maruti calculator app. during the free time and found that diesels are somehow still sensible. The difference is like whether you want a prepaid pack or postpaid pack . Letís go through the calculator, cars chosen-Maruti Baleno 1.2 Alpha Petrol and Tata Altroz 1.5 XZO Diesel.

Quote:
Baleno Spec. -
Price : 7.64 Lakhs ex.showroom
Fuel : Petrol 81.14₹/Litre
Mileage : 16 KMPL
Daily run : 70KM , Yearly : 25K KM
EMI : 13,482 @85% loan

Altroz Spec.-
Price : 8.95 Lakhs ex.showroom
Fuel : Petrol 71.54₹/Litre
Mileage : 20 KMPL
Daily run : 70KM , Yearly : 25K KM
EMI : 15,792 @85% loan
Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km-88809baf980945e49836b7cf49b1181f.png

Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km-e827bcbbedf4421aaf177d3353d00398.png

Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km-657ada26d8e243d6b6d09125be451ea2.png

Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km-950266a99d3f4e76a83258b94f90aa8e.png

So itís a 4.7 year long journey, for recovery! Okay, Babu donít think vintage choose our Ďtechnologically sophisticated , free revving for no reason , naturally aspirated , crumple zones all around , most selling BS6 PETROL only carsí!

Wait! oh man , let me calculate it once more, agree Iím vintage yaar!

Quote:
Package Baleno 1.2NA Petrol-
EMI : 13,482₹
Fuel cost monthly : 10,650₹
Total: 24,130₹
Quote:
Package Altroz 1.5 Turbo Diesel -
EMI : 15,792₹
Fuel cost monthly : 7,511₹
Total: 23,303₹
OMG ! Diesel still starts rewarding it every month, every day , each kilometer you travel. No special mention needed for those addictive torque and turbo boost !
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Old 21st September 2020, 22:35   #160
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Tried another one, this time with Maruti Brezza ZXI+ AT and Tata Nexon EV XZ

Quote:
Brezza Spec. -
Price : 11.15 Lakhs ex.showroom
Fuel : Petrol 81.14₹/Litre
Mileage : 12 KMPL
Daily run : 70KM , Yearly : 25K KM
EMI : 19,674 @85% loan
Quote:
Nexon EV Spec. -
Price : 14.99Lakhs ex.showroom
Fuel : Electricity
Mileage : 100km for 100₹
Daily run : 70KM , Yearly : 25K KM
EMI : 26,467 @85% loan
Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km-a11d24d1557d45109b12a8392dcaf613.png

Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km-0f32d8987d7243a793752c0d05dcbd84.png

Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km-e07f71b3bbc84ba5ab5aeb395759a9b5.png

Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km-5049edd199d8410785f610ae14641768.png

Similar to the previous Petrol/Diesel calculations, if we consider the overall monthly ownership costs for the Petrol/Electric cars , it will give us surprising results as mentioned below.

Quote:
Package Maruti Brezza 1.5 Petrol -
EMI : 19,674₹
Fuel cost monthly : 14,200₹ for 2100 KM
Total: 33,874₹
Quote:
Package Tata Nexon EV XZ-
EMI : 26,467₹
Fuel cost monthly : 2,100₹ for 2100 KM
Total: 28,567₹
Thatís quite contrasting! Iím not even considering the various tax benefits for the EVís and service costs differences, Nexon EV is quite rewarding even if your running is lower than the quoted one. Similar benefits are seen on their recent 12 months lease package, when you drop in the monthly fuel costs .

CALCULATE KIYA KYA ? Thank you Maruti !
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Old 22nd September 2020, 10:00   #161
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

The new series of ads call out diesel buyers for their outdated thinking when it comes to selecting their new carís fuel type

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Old 22nd September 2020, 10:11   #162
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

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Originally Posted by Venkatesh View Post
The new series of ads call out diesel buyers for their outdated thinking when it comes to selecting their new car’s fuel type
I guess the 4 speed AT, F series, G series NA petrol engines are from the 22nd century as per Maruti . They already moved on from stone age tech like forced induction, direct injection and a six speed gearbox sometime ago since these were not modern enough.

Last edited by audioholic : 22nd September 2020 at 10:21.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 10:45   #163
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Maruti has taken hypocrisy to a new level. All these ads are after they have sold millions of diesel cars in India. Just watch this interview with Mr. C.V Raman, Senior ED of engg. at Maruti. Watch from 04:10 on his response on 4 speed AT. Maruti's rational is most of their 4 speed AT customers of Brezza, Dzire etc would be urban users and hence they wouldn't need the 5 th and 6 th gear Now I know who suggested the name "urban cruiser" to Toyota, none other than Maruti themselves. After all it's their baby! What Maruti doesn't seem to know is cars with 6 speed gears has the first 3 gears too for city use. Can I get a different word for "outdated thinking" ?


Last edited by Bibendum90949 : 22nd September 2020 at 11:01.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 12:18   #164
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

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Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post
Mr. C.V Raman, Senior ED of engg. at Maruti. Watch from 04:10 on his response on 4 speed AT.

Can I get a different word for "outdated thinking" ?
His and Mr. R C Bhargava's retirement goals would be to bring down the company as they leave If a senior guy like him has such a mindset, I pity the poor engineers who are working on these products. Making statements like "most of our customers use it within the city", "4 speed is doing a good job" makes me doubt the sort of strategic thinking that happens within the company. So he should also openly claim that their cars just do their job in all fields and there is nothing to beat their chest about like how they have this marketing campaign. As every day passes, more and more customers are becoming aware of products, technologies on offer thanks to the deeper penetration of internet, and this will only thrash Maruti in the longrun. By when even if they have futuristic products, there will be no customers to attract thanks to the image that is being built currently.
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Old 22nd September 2020, 12:22   #165
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Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

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Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post
Maruti's rational is most of their 4 speed AT customers of Brezza, Dzire etc would be urban users and hence they wouldn't need the 5 th and 6 th gear
This is utterly wrong, no two ways to put it.

I have the same 4 speed AT in my A Star and I have studied and learnt that the gear ratio of the 4th cog is actually better than the 5th cog in the corresponding manual transmission. I think Leoshashi (that renowned PhD holder in all things Maruti) had shared the same in the Ertiga AT review thread as well. The 4th gear in this AT slushbox is so tall that it is a proper pleasure out on the highway. I love driving my antique A Star AT on open roads for that reason.

On the other hand, a 1000 kg 3 pot engined hatchback such as mine delivers only a pathetic 10 kmpl in the city. Why? The lack of a sufficient number of gears for the car to breathe easily in, at city speeds. The 1st and 2nd gears are too short and the 3rd and 4th are too tall. It is 1 or 2 gears short for the medium city speeds that we find ourselves driving at, in urban conditions.

Another case study is the 4 speed AT gearbox in the Hyundai i10. It delivers an eye-watering 7-8 kmpl at city speeds

So back to the 4 speed Maruti automatic gearbox - what misinformation are these two chaps spouting in this video?
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