Team-BHP > The Indian Car Scene


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd September 2020, 13:05   #166
BHPian
 
Bibendum90949's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 751
Thanked: 2,686 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Quote:
Originally Posted by locusjag View Post
This is utterly wrong, no two ways to put it.
I have the same 4 speed AT in my A Star and I have studied and learnt that the gear ratio of the 4th cog is actually better than the 5th cog in the corresponding manual transmission.So back to the 4 speed Maruti automatic gearbox - what misinformation are these two chaps spouting in this video?
Had he defended the question with this logic of the taller 4 th cog, it would have sounded much better than what he responded. I would say Maruti's 4 speed AT is still an elephant in the room. Won't the taller cog on 4th also means that the 3rd one is far spaced and hence some seamless shifts are compromised and it may have a cascading effect on the 1 st and 2 nd gear too. I've not driven it, hence asking on the shifting experience.
Bibendum90949 is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 22nd September 2020, 13:56   #167
BHPian
 
Researcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: OD02/JH05/WB02
Posts: 185
Thanked: 783 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post
Maruti's rational is most of their 4 speed AT customers of Brezza, Dzire etc would be urban users and hence they wouldn't need the 5 th and 6 th gear.
Either this is a very poor market research by an intern or the top management of Maruti has simply become too relaxed with their 50% market share. The elders in our family still recall how Maruti single-handedly ruined the concept of having automatics for the market by introducing 3 speed torque converters which had really bad fuel economy.

The only three things that Maruti has in its favour is its reliability, cost of ownership and points of contact. With an aggressive number 2 in Hyundai/Kia, it won't be long that Maruti lose that 25% gap to them. Most of us can recall how fortunes changed for Nokia just in 3-4 years after the iPhone/Androids were introduced. Someone please educate Mr. Raman about this.

20 years back, most people bought cars in the 3-4 lac range and with no other option, Maruti used to rule the segment with 800, Zen, Alto and WagonR. Recently, people are shifting to the 6-10 lac segment and we see Swift, Dzire and Baleno having to share the charts with i10 and i20. In a few years when people move up to the 10-15 lac segment, (can say has started with the Creta/Seltos twins), Maruti will simply be forced to minority or oblivion with this 70s era License Raj logic for providing 4 speeds, negligible safety and no diesels.

Edit: It seems Maruti has forgotten how the mighty Hindustan Motors was toppled due to them. Seems they will witness the repeat of history, but this time on the other side.

Last edited by Researcher : 22nd September 2020 at 14:18.
Researcher is offline   (7) Thanks
Old 22nd September 2020, 14:23   #168
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Chennai
Posts: 1,469
Thanked: 5,349 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post
Had he defended the question with this logic of the taller 4 th cog, it would have sounded much better than what he responded.
Here's how I would've justified their latest 4 speed offering - "the 4th cog has tall gearing and will keep highway users happy. Its gear ratio is in fact taller than the gear ratio of the manual 5th gear on many of our offerings. Now, we're aware of the effect of the other gears ratios on in-city fuel efficiency. To help with exactly that, the mild hybrid system with the Li ion battery has been built in."

See? I deserve to be in that guy's chair, earning his salary and talking to journos

Quote:
Won't the taller cog on 4th also means that the 3rd one is far spaced and hence some seamless shifts are compromised and it may have a cascading effect on the 1 st and 2 nd gear too. I've not driven it, hence asking on the shifting experience.
The nearly spaced 1st and 2nd very quickly give up and hand off to the 3rd. It sticks on the 3rd for far longer than I would want it to. It is somewhere in this zone that my A Star is fuel-inefficient.

Last edited by locusjag : 22nd September 2020 at 14:24.
locusjag is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 22nd September 2020, 15:50   #169
BHPian
 
Bibendum90949's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 751
Thanked: 2,686 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Quote:
Originally Posted by locusjag View Post
Here's how I would've justified their latest 4 speed offering -
Such an apposite reply buddy.
Quote:
The nearly spaced 1st and 2nd very quickly give up and hand off to the 3rd. It sticks on the 3rd for far longer than I would want it to. It is somewhere in this zone that my A Star is fuel-inefficient.
Thanks for the clarification. Will try my hand some day. Yes the bottom line is you'll only have as many gears to cater to all driving conditions and play around with.

Last edited by Bibendum90949 : 22nd September 2020 at 15:54.
Bibendum90949 is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 22nd September 2020, 22:12   #170
BHPian
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Mumbai/Pune
Posts: 104
Thanked: 369 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

With all "calculate kiya kya" campaign in place, customer should ask "Website update kiya kya" ; Nexa website is still having mention of 1.3 DDIS in below link
https://www.nexaexperience.com/nexaw...aleno-variants
Attached Thumbnails
Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km-img_20200922_220552.jpg  


Last edited by Aniruddha_Ch : 22nd September 2020 at 22:14.
Aniruddha_Ch is offline   (9) Thanks
Old 2nd October 2020, 20:09   #171
Distinguished - BHPian
 
volkman10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: --
Posts: 17,492
Thanked: 41,824 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

In Sept-20, the dispatch figures show a bit of disadvantage in not having a diesel variant, but not bad as expected.

- In the CUV segment, Vitara Brezza comes second and loses 12% volumes in Sep’20 v/s Sep’19

Name:  1.PNG
Views: 2329
Size:  58.3 KB

- Dzire de-grows at 11%, but still is the segment leader

- Ciaz too loses 11%. Could be the absence of a diesel or the more desirable cars from competition?

Source:Auto Punditz
volkman10 is offline  
Old 4th October 2020, 02:01   #172
BHPian
 
venbas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Chennai
Posts: 72
Thanked: 151 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Quote:
Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post

- Dzire de-grows at 11%, but still is the segment leader

- Ciaz too loses 11%. Could be the absence of a diesel or the more desirable cars from competition?
Maruti Petrols are lousy underpowered crap that cannot hold a candle to current competition. With that gem of a DDiS engine gone thanks to BS VI regulations, Maruti has been hit with a double whammy of competitors introducing turbo petrols that are fun to drive and quite frugal. With buyers being more discerning in choosing premium hatch/crossover over Sedans Maruti will be relegated to an also ran if they don't see the writing on the wall.

Last edited by venbas : 4th October 2020 at 02:04. Reason: Typos
venbas is offline   (5) Thanks
Old 4th October 2020, 10:27   #173
Senior - BHPian
 
wheelguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: City of Destiny
Posts: 1,494
Thanked: 7,572 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Actually they did very well for what used to be a diesel only model previously now being a petrol only model, talking about Brezza. Give a Maruti an average product and they will show you how to do wonders which most of the other manufacturers cannot do.

Last edited by wheelguy : 4th October 2020 at 10:29.
wheelguy is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 4th October 2020, 10:37   #174
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 693
Thanked: 1,296 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelguy View Post
Actually they did very well for what used to be a diesel only model previously now being a petrol only model, talking about Brezza. Give a Maruti an average product and they will show you how to do wonders which most of the other manufacturers cannot do.
They are masters of selling average products in huge numbers. On the flip side, they have always failed to sell an excellent product. S Cross 1.6 is a recent example of it. To my knowledge and some information from a reputed dealer, Maruti is under pressure from dealer network as well for getting the diesel cars again. We must not forget that apart from sales, servicing is a major profit making business for these dealers. And proactively thinking, with less diesel cars on road even the service profit margins will take a big hit.
With Kia and Hyundai taking away the bigger chunk of Crossovers and Compact SUVs, it becomes imperative for Maruti to bring better products or stick to Tier 2-3 cities for higher sales number.
VWAllstar is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 4th October 2020, 11:45   #175
Senior - BHPian
 
pedrolourenco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Margao, Goa
Posts: 1,062
Thanked: 1,065 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Wondering what Maruti will say when they launch their 1.5L diesel in BS6 form.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TROOPER View Post
So what will MS say when they launch BS6 diesel next year?
You seriously think they will be able to do it? They had the brilliant 1.3 Multijet from Fiat. The chopped it in 2 and increased the displacement a bit to give us the Celerio Diesel. Not a very good job and as expected it failed. Then they joined 2 of these twin cylinder engines and did a lot of work and gave us the "BS6 Ready" 1.5 DDiS. Brilliant job. Not so brilliant was their inability to convert it from "BS6 Ready" to "BS6". Apparently they are good only at reverse engineering. They are probably having difficulty reverse engineering the BS6 features of a Fiat engine since Fiat does not have any 1.5 for them to copy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishen.padiyar View Post
Wonder where was this wisdom when their DDiS powered cash cows were bringing them loads of money in the form of both sales and service
And they once claimed that Fiat cars were not fuel efficient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sahilrai166 View Post
When consumers pay extra to get the turbo petrols over the regular ones then why not pay extra and get the diesel and enjoy its sheer torque and fuel efficiency.
Simple. If they want us to ditch diesels, give us decent petrols (turbo petrols to be specific).


Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek46 View Post
Not everyone buys a diesel for the economy.
Diesels are a pleasure to drive on the highways, due to their effortless torque.
They offer the ideal mix of performance and fuel efficiency.
Precisely the reason I bought a Rapid TDI instead of the MPI 6 years ago despite Petrol and Diesel being priced the same in Goa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 46TheDoctor View Post
1. For people who do high runnings, diesel certainly works out to be a lot cheaper than the petrol even with a premium of 5-10% in aquisition cost over the equivalent petrol variant. There are plenty of calculations about this that are posted on this forum before.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Or is it that they are predicting further delay in converting the 1.5 to BS-6 or some other issue [for further delays], hence all this propaganda to show diesels in poor light?
Exactly. They have hit a roadblock with the 1.5 DDiS and have no clue how to make it BS6 compliant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
One thing I realized in the calculator is that MSIL uses the ARAI rated km/l value. All of us know that real world efficiency is significantly lesser than the rated FE. Further, petrol engines returns for worse FE than diesel engines in real world traffic conditions.

This calculator is pure hogwash.
In fact the Diesel real world mileage is quite close to the ARAI figures. Within 2-3 Kms less than the ARAI figure as opposed to 7-8 Km less for the Petrols.
pedrolourenco is offline   (3) Thanks
Old 23rd October 2020, 11:42   #176
BHPian
 
BLACNWYTE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Kochi
Posts: 156
Thanked: 344 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Saw this in today's newspaper.

Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km-img_20201023_085854.jpg

An advertisement given by TATA dealers in Kerala. It basically explains why Diesel cars are better than petrols ones in giving you better savings and also a better driving experience. I guess this is in response to the Maruti 'Calculate Kia Kya?' ad.

Last edited by BLACNWYTE : 23rd October 2020 at 11:43.
BLACNWYTE is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 29th October 2020, 09:07   #177
Team-BHP Support
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 14,704
Thanked: 50,827 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

And that's how the cookie crumbles -

Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km-screenshot_20201029010932_chrome.jpg

PS: Surely a software error, I know.
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (8) Thanks
Old 29th October 2020, 09:11   #178
Senior - BHPian
 
hserus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 4,174
Thanked: 7,382 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
And that's how the cookie crumbles -

PS: Surely a software error, I know.
Hahahha what numbers did you feed that tool for this result?
hserus is offline  
Old 29th October 2020, 09:24   #179
Team-BHP Support
 
CrAzY dRiVeR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bengaluru
Posts: 14,704
Thanked: 50,827 Times
Default Re: Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Hahahha what numbers did you feed that tool for this result?
If the difference between petrol and diesel car is in three digits or less, the tool fails logic and suggests petrol - all the way from Rs 999 to Rs 1.

Was simply trying to see what the Maruti calculator thinks of TGDi v/s CRDi pricing when I noticed this bug.

Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km-screenshot_20201029091639_chrome.jpg
CrAzY dRiVeR is offline   (7) Thanks
Old 29th October 2020, 10:34   #180
BHPian
 
TorqueIndia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Kottayam,Kerala
Posts: 248
Thanked: 1,035 Times
Default Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km

Irony is that , Maruti have already hurt the resale values of their own diesel cars with the calculator ads . Recently we were hunting for a used car for my friend and found that Swift, Dzire, Ritz and Ertiga diesel variants premium has reduced drastically in Kerala.

Scross diesel was already available at mouth watering prices being a sales dud. Brezza is holding up its value right now, may erode soon.

My guess is Maruti would never return with diesels for the private customers, if it comes it will be exclusive for commercial registration.

Last edited by moralfibre : 29th October 2020 at 14:45. Reason: Typo
TorqueIndia is offline   (1) Thanks
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright 2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks