[Lowflyer23]

5 years from now Maruti is done for if it continues this same unethical and for granted behaviour . The average customer is much more aware now and Maruti still thinks they can continue selling their tin cans in bucketloads and on top of that try to fool customers over the "so called costs saved" by going for a petrol.

I agree that Diesels may not turn out to be vfm for some people due to their running usage but Maruti is clearly exaggerating it. They can continue surviving with their altos, Swifts and Balenos while the competitors will bring more quality and safe products in other or same segments. RANT OVER!!


Lowflyer23

[GRAND23]

There is a reason why I started this (Can Hyundai / Kia become the no.1 car manufacturer of India?)thread. I still somehow believe Maruti Suzuki will lose no.1 spot someday. This doesn’t mean that I am against Suzuki. I definitely don’t want to see Suzuki’s decline. Instead, Suzuki being market leader should challenge every competitor and need to lay up strategies for conquering beyond 10 lakhs market.

They should have never commented about diesel especially the market which they ruled once. Fiat’s 1.3L DDIS was called national engine for a reason. Maruti wanted to convince their potential customers that since the prices of both diesel and petrol are same, running cost would be low in petrol. But this marketing strategy has taken completely U-turn. These same potential customers bought Ritz, Swift, Ertiga, Ciaz, S-Cross diesel cars once and they can’t simply accept what Maruti says today. Gone are the days where ads were driving the sales. The current Indian market is so mature that every potential customer does his/her homework before buying the car. So, it is best to be in good books of public. It brings healthy sales.

One thing is clear that competitor has taken the game completely away from Maruti Suzuki. Suzuki knows that they can’t keep selling their low budget cars for long time even if Toyota is on their side. The way Hyundai/Kia are bringing the technologies in most affordable segments is simply amazing. Even if Toyota helps Suzuki in providing hybrid/EV technology, I am sure Hyundai/Kia will challenge them equally.

[VijayAnand1]

My mantra is as the same as the age old saying, petrol cheaper to maintain, diesels a little expensive unless they throw a tantrum. Modern DI engines are extremely smoother and some diesels even put petrols to shame in sheer refinement barring the diesel clatter which are extremely well controlled.

Yes, companies prank us. Yes, companies always overrate their products over others' products, yes companies want to milk in every which way possible, yes some brands are money pits (mostly these days) but do we have a choice? Taking the time, researching, and just not to falling for these gung ho company ads will what help the consumer bank on the right decision.

Good thread!

Cheers!
VJ

[jonesanto]

Saw Sonet ad along with that stupid “calculate kiya kay” my a** ad in the newspaper today. Highlight what your strengths are, rather than bashing on something you are unable to offer that too after selling the same diesels truck loads of them in the past. Maruti’s strong hold is in the entry level segment and no matter what the competition does, they are gonna be at the top.

And at the other side of the coin, with this kind of attitude they are never gonna break 10lakh+ segment. Whoever spending 10 lakh plus on a car surely gonna look for features, comfort and engine options. Maruti is still living in the 2000’s in that regard.

I am not against Maruti and we have more petrol cars in the family than diesels. We prefer diesels for highway runs only. I wish Maruti would do something about updating features, safety and engine options in their cars instead of foul mouthing diesels.

They can only look at the “1.5 CRDi diesel engine with 6 speed AT” helplessly with open-mouthed. Leave diesel engine, what is their answer to that AT option? A 20 year old 4 speed AT?

[CountMe91]

If you cant convince them, confuse them!

I think Maruti is going ahead with the same logic. After having milked its consumers using 1.3 MJD across so many cars, now they are running a negative campaign against Diesel cars. Hypocrisy much ha!

Just because Maruti Suzuki is unable to innovate and come up with a BS6 Diesel engine, they are trying to demean other competitors efforts in making diesel cars for India. Really naive approach from top leadership led by Bhargava to support an immature campaign like this.

Things that Maruti got correct: Excellent Dealer Network, Exceptional After Sales Service, Good Petrol Engines, Terrific Resale value

Things Maruti needs to improve: Competent Auto Gearboxes, Diesel Cars, Turbo engines, addition of AWD to Brezza and Designs (Maybe hire the head of Design of Skoda/VW) All of these culminates to good R&D

[ganesc]

It's just matter of time, they come up with the BS6 diesel. As many have pointed out, it's more to do with their inability to ready the engine on time. And all these adverts will do down once they bring back their diesel.

Came across their petrol vs diesel calculator sometime in March/April this year if i remember correctly and felt their petrol's fuel efficiency claims were simply over-rated.

Personal experience with 1st Gen Wagon-R, Esteem was getting around 12-14 Kmpl mixed & 1st gen Swift (shared Esteem's engine If i recall it right) around 8-11 Kmpl. Max, my friend's said getting around 14-16 Kmpl in highways at best with the new Maruti's. Our diesel Ertiga does around 16-18 Kmpl.

[abhi9044]

I don't know what people at Maruti have been thinking. The times have changed and so has the customer.

Look at the sales from Tata Motors. Surely they aren't selling as much as Maruti or Hyundai, but lately they have gained a respectable market share. What does that signify? It means that the customer today, is surely giving preference to safety over fuel efficiency.

Also note, the times have changed. It's not 2010 where smartphones and internet was a luxury. These are now basic commodities that every common man owns. So before purchasing a car, this common man does his research on the internet and tries to get maximum for his money. Then they make their decision of buying a car. This was not the case previously. People were generally buying car based upon advertisements on tv and their friend's/relative recommendations.

And coming to that 'Calculate Kia Kya' tvc, they can advertise whatever they want. But as many have said, it will hurt the sentiments of their own consumers only which will hurt them in the long term.Note that players such as Hyundai/Kia/Ford/ Tata were not fools to provide diesel powered vehicles in their lineup. They too did their research albeit in a much better way and thus decided to keep providing diesel powered mills. Surely, people might skip small diesel powered vehicles, but when it comes to Suv's and big sedans, everyone knows that if they will be buying a petrol engine then the fuel efficiency is definitely going to be somewhere between 10-13 max( within City).

For ex:- As mentioned by Bhp'ian Leoshashi in his XL6's thread, many people have reported low fuel efficiency from the Brezza petrol,as low as 10kmpl (Calculate kiya kya seems to be failing here for high mileage consumers).

[kanishka88]

Wasn't it a matter of time a global powerhouse (Hyundai / Toyota / VW) would have de-throned a globally incompetent brand like Suzuki from one of the fastest growing market in the world? The fact that Maruti has held its own is commendable till now, and a shame on others! What would anyone do if they are in Maruti's position? Play on their strengths right? Isn't that exactly what Kia and Hyundai are doing? They will give you everything from good fit and finish to tons of options and variants but will be expensive too compared to a similar specced Maruti. Everything has a cost and the company will have to make conscious calls to survive

1. Teambhp is a place for enthusiasts and people who are feeling strongly about this news may not be in the market to buy their first car, or are not in sub 10L bucket anymore. Guess what, there are tons of people out there who are still buying their cars for the first time or are upgrading / adding a new car with budget constraints. Maruti caters to these users very well

2. Economy is in shambles and car ownership may have moved from necessity to luxury to deferred option for future for quite a lot of folks. Maruti, again with its cheaper petrol options, is a safe buy if anyone is looking for a new dependable car with no fuzz

3. Maruti has been irresponsible when it comes to quality, safety, experience etc. No doubt about it. I remember loving Brezza from outside, being swayed by its fuel efficient AT before deciding on Ecosport AT with a less efficient petrol engine at a premium price. But I will not deny - Maruti was priced so cheap compared to Eco that i was in double minds even on the delivery date. Each segment will have a segment and we like it or not, Maruti will be the mass marketing offering in that segment. It will not be different for Vitara, or Jimmy whenever and if these cars make it to India

4. All of the above will remain true even if Suzuki gets acquired by a global car marker in future (Toyota, VW?). This positioning for MS in India is unbeatable in a market where cars are turning into commodities.

A general word of caution - I have followed TBhp consistently for last 10 years+ and I have realized how each time i was reading about a car, the posts and their 'thanks' have influenced my thinking. Maruti's current decisions shows lack of available resources and inability to cater to a TG, but it doesn't say that Maruti's petrol options in Swift / Dzire or even Brezza are not worth exploring. I for one will never buy a Maruti because I have moved on, but let's not shame Maruti's existing efforts (for the price they command) and threads like these with baseless ranting may be doing that exactly!

[jonesanto]

Originally Posted by kanishka88

Threads like these with baseless ranting may be doing that exactly!

You are missing the point, yes, there are some who are strongly against Maruti and their cars but most of them are not saying that their cars are bad in this thread. We are discussing only about "Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km" rant from Maruti. Like mentioned before, if you don't have diesel, fine, sell petrol. You are still the market leader, just don't bash about diesels because you can't offer one. Especially, especially when you were selling them like hot cakes till last April.

That is the point.

[kanishka88]

Originally Posted by jonesanto

You are missing the point, yes, there are some who are strongly against Maruti and their cars but most of them are not saying that their cars are bad in this thread. We are discussing only about "Maruti now says = Diesel car costs can only be recovered after 260,000 km" rant from Maruti. Like mentioned before, if you don't have diesel, fine, sell petrol. You are still the market leader, just don't bash about diesels because you can't offer one. Especially, especially when you were selling them like hot cakes till last April.

That is the point.

Agreed. Being a market leader you have certain responsibility. But,

1. Are they making an incorrect claim? If the calculator was flawed or misleading it would be wrong

2. Tata recently started advertise about their value prop - safe cars. You use your value prop to not only highlight what you have but also to hide what you don’t have. I would still not buy a Tata because I am unsure about reliability, though safety is way up in the hierarchy

All I am saying is cut them some slack. I am secretly hoping that manufactures will bring hybrids (Maruti can may be tap into non plug ins from Toyota’s stable) than focus on diesels. If a hybrid is priced at same price as competitions diesel, then it would be an interesting situation. In my recent experience, hybrids are way more fuel efficient if your mix has more of city drive. Environment is other factor and it may not be long when more cities bring in the 10 year rule or higher taxes on diesel

[xjosephjacob]

This has been an age old marketing tactic, and in India we have examples of brands going lengths.

What immediately came to my mind was the antics of our global toothpate behemoth Colgate- they killed our homegrown charcoal powder with a campaign saying it spoils the enamel, and in recent times brought charcoal in thier own toothpaste.

Atleast in this context, I find Maruti to be technically more or less correct, and reasonably transparent. I drive about 500km weekly (own a petrol and diesel car and use them alternatively), and when I work out the math with today's Petrol and Diesel price, the number's aren't far off from Maruti's claims.

Since I see bhp'ians bringing in the corporate ethics in to the equation, my take is - I see corporate ethics issues with VAG's dieselgate, Hyundai-Kia's false MPG advertising scam and more recently the Indian Renault Captur ad- because those were all lies. This is at best a marketing excercise aimed at those millions in our country without million rupee pockets who really care about those extra kmpl and price.

Yes it sucks when we see a brand taking a complete U turn and I hate to hear that as well honestly.

[samitjain]

It’s too early to say that Maruti has judged the market wrong by going in for petrol cars only.

1. Prices of diesel are no longer what they used to be, the price difference is becoming negligible in comparison with petrol.
2. 10 year diesel restriction in NCR will shift customers to petrol. I have a 7year old BMW and now fearing the depreciation in price because of this.
3. Small hybrids will make petrol cars efficient and comparable to diesel.
4. With EV becoming a game changer in few years from now, we don’t know how market will react.
5. Diesel will remain popular for bigger SUVs and MUVs. We don’t know that Supreme Court may implement 10 year rule across India for Diesel. Diesel as a fuel is being discouraged and Govt. are preferring EV for official USE.
Currently the decision to opt out of Diesel seems laughable and completely wrong. But 1-2 year down the line, their strategy might be the right one.

[sureshkishore]

Maruti's effort to de-sell diesel models is not a novel trend.

While booking my brothers first gen Swift DDIS in 2008 the salesman tried to play the same gimmick and tried to convince us to take the petrol which was readily available, however we pinned him down with one major flaw in his calculation, he ignored the higher resale value for the diesel powered car. Our decision proved prudent indeed. We sold the car with just 25% depreciation after nearly 4.5 years and 70000 kms use. An equivalent petrol would have depreciated more.
However in todays scenario, diesels would attract worse depreciation especially in case of small cars.

I would any day opt for an efficient petrol car than a diesel one.
Suzuki petrol engines are quite good indeed and with increased tech going into those engines they have made it much better indeed. A test drive of the new 1.2 Dualjet will clear any doubts about which is the the best 1.2 NA engine available in the market today.

There are diesel lovers who don't work out the math before buying a diesel car. The Maruti ad aims to convert those diesel fans. It sure does a decent job of presenting the case.

[satyamkolhe]

Originally Posted by Hayek

In 3.5 years, I have driven 28,760 km, and used 3393 litres of diesel costing ₹ 228,000 at 8.6 kmpl. With a petrol equivalent giving 6.5 kmpl, I would have used about 4400 litres costing ₹ 339,000. So even if the petrol car cost ₹200,000 (under 5% of the cost of my car) more, I would not have recovered the principal yet - leave aside the interest.

Think the same would apply to most urban users

And do not forget that the cost of servicing, which is higher for diesel cars as compared to petrol cars, is not even considered here. If we include that cost too, some people will never recover the extra money paid for diesel cars.

[vishnurp99]

I think a poll may make sense for this thread. The question could be something like this.

At the current petrol/diesel prices, what is the right price differential for a diesel car over the petrol vehicle for the same model assuming you have a running of 12000 Kms a year?

1. 8% of the car value.
2. 2% of the car value
3. 5% of the car value.
4. Less than 2% of car value.

As a current scross diesel owner and part of multi-car household with multiple diesel cars and only one petrol, I think Maruti is just highlighting the reality today. When i brought the scross in early 2018, I paid 9.9X lakhs for zeta diesel. Today the scross petrol zeta is available at the same price. Considering the inflation in car prices over the last couple of years, I would have paid a premium of approximately 20K INR for a car with better FE (2-3 kmpl more) , mid-range punch and 5 Rs fuel price advantage in case i had gone for the Scross Zeta diesel today.

I expect the resale value of old diesels to be higher for the next 5 years atleast in comparison to the petrol but this difference will also be a around 2-5% premium only.