[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by YashD

I think it's just an excuse, the real problem is Amaze being diesel AT using a detuned engine. It produces 80 HP with 160 nm torque. They wouldn't be able to hide the short comings of the same in the City

Agree completely, the reason is not Honda wanting to offer a higher powered Diesel Auto in the City or not wanting to do so. The real reason is that they do not have sufficient engine-transmission options in their kitty.

Their foray into Diesel was totally half-hearted. They modified their 1.6 Earthdreams onto an 1.5 for the first-gen Amaze, just for India, since this market was going into a frenzy in favour of Diesels around 2012. They then stopped - global support for an India specific strategy on Diesels collapsed and due to Dieselgate and they did not develop any other engines or transmissions. When push came to shove and they had to have a Diesel-Auto Combo in the Amaze 2nd Gen, they simply mated the existing 1.5 Diesel Engine with the CVT from the Petrol range and detuned the torque to 160 NM, so the box could handle the torque and weight combo. This worked for the Amaze because it is so light but the Combo wouldn’t even work for WRV, because it is marginally heavier.

One good thing is Honda is so conservative with its margin of safety - it just will not put powertrains in their cars that can fail and spoil their global reputation. They are even more conservative in this way than VW. So in summary, there is no engine-gearbox combo in their kitty to put into the new City to create a diesel-auto combination. And Honda will source a gearbox from an outside firm only if global volumes justify it, like with the ZF 9-speed. They are not going to do that for an emerging market only model like the City.

Now, compare them with Hyundai. Hyundai went all out with Diesels - they have 1.2, 1.5, 1.6, 2.0 and 2.2 litre Diesel engines and 6-speed and 8–speed auto transmissions. They are selling their transmissions to TATA. Their investments in Diesel are paying off, as other competitors vacate the space in favour of Petrol models.

[Heart_Revs]

Originally Posted by GTO

They may do so at their own peril! The challengers are many; there is a reason why Mercedes is no.1 in the luxury car market, while Kia had such a stunning first innings. They do NOT have this mentality.

Thanks to the internet, the Indian customer is an extremely astute, intelligent, shrewd & knowledgeable one.

I beg to differ. If Indian customer is all that you have said then Dzire, Amaze , Ameo and all other pseudo-sedans would be selling in Zero numbers.

Just because Kia and Mercedes succeed does not take me to any such conclusion. These manufactures succeeded because they offered a segment defining product at a good price, not because their products are international versions or anything like that.

BHPians may be all that you have said but an average Indian car buyer is a still far from being a informed customer. Word of mouth still rules !!!

[TusharK]

Rumour: Honda Civic BS6 Diesel to be launched next week

According to a media report, Honda is likely to launch the Civic BS6 diesel sometime next week.



Honda has already started accepting pre-bookings for the Civic BS6 diesel. The car will be powered by an upgraded version of the 1.6-litre, 4-cylinder diesel engine. It will be paired with a 6-speed manual transmission.

The Civic also gets a BS6-compliant petrol engine. The 1.8-litre unit produces 139 BHP @ 6,500 rpm and 174 Nm @ 4,300 rpm and is offered with a continuously variable transmission (CVT).


Source

Link to Team-BHP News

[Nithesh_M]

A base petrol manual for under 17 lakhs ex showroom would give them numbers. With the petrol auto and diesel manual they might aswell give up selling the Civic here

[TokyoDrifter]

A Civic with 2.0 TSI + DSG combo would be fire. Alas, its the CVT, and no Petrol MT either. Sigh.

[TusharK]

Honda Civic Diesel BS6 launched at Rs. 20.75 lakh

The Honda Civic is now available with a BS6-compliant diesel engine. It is available in two variants - VX and ZX priced at Rs. 20,74,900 and Rs. 22,34,900 (ex-showroom, Delhi) respectively.



The Civic is powered by a 1.6-litre, 4-cylinder, turbocharged diesel engine that produces 118 BHP @ 4,000 rpm and 300 Nm @ 2,000 rpm. The engine is mated to a 6-speed manual gearbox. Honda claims that the engine delivers a fuel economy of 23.9 km/l.

The Civic comes equipped with a host of features including LED headlights, 17-inch alloy wheels, 7-inch touchscreen infotainment head-unit that is compatible with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, electric sunroof, dual-zone automatic climate control, 8-way power driver seat and a rear view camera.

The Civic diesel comes with 6 airbags as standard. Other safety features include Vehicle Stability Assist, Hill Start Assist, Honda Lane Watch, ABS with EBD and Brake Assist and ISOFIX Child Seat Anchorage.

Link to Team-BHP News

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

50k increase on the base variant, but no increase on the slow-selling top variant?

Still very much overpriced though - The top-end Elantra SX(o) diesel automatic is cheaper than the base Civic VX manual diesel variant by 10k at 20.65 lakh (ex-showroom, Delhi).

Both cars offer pathetic engines by erstwhile D-segment seam standards and are better suited for the chauffeur driven - 1.6, 118hp on the Civic and a 1.5, 113hp on the Elantra. But the Elantra offers a much needed automatic option at a far cheaper price.

[GBX]

This car is the anti-skoda rapid. Instead of new engines in an old chassis adding upto a bargain, we have an ancient engine mated to a new chassis at an exorbitant price.

Bad time to be a Honda fan.

[07CR]

Except the gorgeous looks, I don't see any reason one should go for the Civic, instead of the new City.
Even the same can be said of the Elantra and Verna (Not exactly same, I hate the new Elantra's looks)

[varunswnt]

Originally Posted by 07CR

Except the gorgeous looks, I don't see any reason one should go for the Civic, instead of the new City.
Even the same can be said of the Elantra and Verna (Not exactly same, I hate the new Elantra's looks)

These are D segment cars which are made specifically for developed markets with top safety standards and advanced clientele expectations. City/Verna cater to developing markets suiting their client needs in affordable manner. Though these cars have now climbed the price ladder to replace D segment cars, they still will remain as market specific models.

This in no way means that D segment cars need to be priced astronomical. But the market dynamics created by manufacturers themselves in order to extract more profit out of tin cans and no advancement in engineering driving lower segment prices north creating unnecessary segments out of thin air.

End of rant!

Civic's base chassis tweaked to go around Nurburgring and spawn Type R hot hatch, can City boast of that? A couple lacs lower and great engine in Civic is all we need to experience pure joy, and that is what Civic should be conceptually in any market, an affordable sports car experience.

[landcruiser123]

Honda is creating more headroom for the new City.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Both cars offer pathetic engines by erstwhile D-segment seam standards and are better suited for the chauffeur driven - 1.6, 118hp on the Civic and a 1.5, 113hp on the Elantra. But the Elantra offers a much needed automatic option at a far cheaper price.

These D segment sedans have tear inducing price tags. Considering the fully loaded Elantra AT is undercuts the base manual Civic by 10k and both have average diesel engines, who'd consider the Civic?

Harrier, Innova Crysta etc offer much more value

[Zinda]

Nothing unexpected - clearly Honda has no "ambitions" for India.

Jazz never gets 1.5 iVtec - despite witnessing Polo Tsi, Figo 1.5 and Abarth Punto's cult following
City getting the same 1.5 iVtec in its 4th Gen
and now Civic's same Petrol after a decade and increased price

[Vid6639]

Why did Honda even bother with this? The diesel sedan market is close to dead and everyone will look at SUV options like the Seltos and Creta if looking at diesel. Those even offer similar performance and automatic boxes. They are much lower in price as well.

The civic diesel manual with 120 horses is really really pointless.

I'm going to sound like a broken record but I can't believe they invested in R&D cost, assembly line for a Civic diesel and they are not able to spend money on a W-RV 1.5L i-VTEC petrol which will probably outsell the Civic by 5 times.

[TokyoDrifter]

And to top it all, the lack of “lumbar support” in Civic can lead to severe back-aches even on a short in-city drive! Good to look at the beauty of Civic via pictures, don’t see sales picking up ever.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Two months after the BS6 launch - diesel Civic is back on the mega discount chart - with a publicized benefit of upto 2.81 lakhs in Kerala.