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Old 23rd June 2020, 20:03   #31
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Default Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening?

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Originally Posted by rahul4321 View Post

My country is cornered on all sides from neighbours who wish to see it fall. Our Armed Forces have hit back at one of the aggressive countries who is now sitting on our doorstep with all its might. If my country needs to increase taxes, fuel prices, commodity prices by 10-20%, I have absolutely no problems. The sorties in the Air do not come cheap. The consumables of the Fighter Planes do not come cheap. The Heavy Troop Movement and Artillery movement to forward bases do not come cheap. The 500 crore sanctioned for defence purchases has to be sanctioned from somewhere. With COVID- the Government's coffers not only ran dry as they were pumping out money for medical, migrants, trains, buses etc but their earnings from GST and other forms of Indirect Tax also dried up as Restaurants, Salon's, Malls and all other types of business establishments were shut.
Has there been any non plan expenditure on defense? What does raising military expenses have to do with increasing fuel prices? Yes, revenues have been low for 2 months, but the economy was in deep trouble before February as well. Hiring has been on a historic low, packages even at the top institutes has not improved beyond 2016 levels, despite inflation edging up. It is sad to see people believing this government sponsored media rhetoric when even a year ago the best global economists were saying that India is in deep trouble due to flop and misguided policies implemented irrationally. Please open the livemint or economictimes articles from 2019 to confirm this.

It's just sad that people are brazen enough to blame military expense to justify an extremely flawed economic ministry that has affected the Indian automobile industry amongst other casualties. This is akin to the folks who blamed the brave soldiers who were murdered by the Chinese, instead of the diplomatic failures that led to their death, on the "nationalist" news channels sponsored by Vivo and Lenovo. Regards.

Just a suggestion to the moderators: India is reeling under a misinformation epidemic through WhatsApp and other social media channels. It would be great if an automated fact checking tool, akin to the ones used by companies like twitter, is applied on member posts that are based on fake forwards and facebook/twitter posts, so thst members themselves can know that they are not contributing to national interest by believing them.

Last edited by Nissan1180 : 23rd June 2020 at 20:31.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 20:14   #32
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Default Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening?

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My country is cornered on all sides from neighbours who wish to see it fall.
The case is the same from the birth of our country.

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Originally Posted by rahul4321 View Post
Our Armed Forces have hit back at one of the aggressive countries who is now sitting on our doorstep with all its might.
Our forces did the same or even more at earlier times also. Have you heard about Bangladesh war (1971) which gave birth to a whole nation named Bangladesh? Have you heard about Kargil? If someone doesn't have / doesn't know / wants to forget history, they are at the wrong end of it.

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The sorties in the Air do not come cheap. The consumables of the Fighter Planes do not come cheap. The Heavy Troop Movement and Artillery movement to forward bases do not come cheap. The 500 crore sanctioned for defence purchases has to be sanctioned from somewhere.
The Chinese border issue happened on June 15th. The hike in fuel prices after the lock-down started even before that - on June 6th. Are you saying everything was planned? Am I smelling something?

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With COVID- the Government's coffers not only ran dry as they were pumping out money for medical, migrants, trains, buses etc but their earnings from GST and other forms of Indirect Tax also dried up as Restaurants, Salon's, Malls and all other types of business establishments were shut.
Same is the case with many common people in India. They don't have other income. Banks won't give them loans. Shops won't give them credits. That is not the case with the govt. Think from common man's point of view also.


Slavery is coming back. Coming back with all its powers. Many become salves without even knowing it.

This is not politics. I am talking about the fundamental rights Indian constitution offers me.

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Old 23rd June 2020, 20:19   #33
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Default Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening?

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Has there been any non plan expenditure on defense? What does raising military expenses have to do with increasing fuel prices?
Well, you said it. Budgets are taken as just an announcement in our country you see. People forget that defence expenditure is allocated already and that one doesn’t need to divert all the money to military expenses should the need arise. The flawed narrative is taking over the overzealous minds and what with misinformation spread widely, we can see why there is literally no protests at all about this daily hike of fuel prices !!


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Old 23rd June 2020, 20:25   #34
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Default Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening?

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If this is the price to pay - I am happy to pay it. Afterall, I would rather give this Government the money they need to defend me as oppposed to keep the money in my bank and be taken over by a Foreign Government who will make all of our lives a living hell.
You are rather lucky to be speaking from a privileged household where you don't have to worry about the hike of Rs.10 on a liter of fuel but unfortunately the majority of Indians aren't in a position to such privilege.

I have been striking up conversations with lots of daily wagers and their situation is grim. Almost everyone of them has run out of money and they are borrowing money to run their family. Rs.10/ Liter increase may not be much for the privileged ones but it is a lot of auto drivers/daily wagers and others. Unfortunately, even people whom we consider middle class are struggling to make ends meet. My MIL's school recently fired a lot of staff because of the non-payment of fees. (That's different story and has a thread of its own). One of the fired teacher got married last year and his wife is caring. He is searching a job in these difficult times. So people from different walks of life are struggling, it should be the government's responsibility to make sure that the citizens don't struggle.

I would blame the government for the lack of foresight in the way it taxes its citizens. How long will they keep saying that only 3 to 4 crores of people are paying tax? The government should come up with ways to bring the vast majority of citizens into the tax regime and stop depending on indirect tax/fuels and other stupids ideas whenever they run out of money.

My friend got married recently and the mehindi artist was charging her 11k for the bridal mehendi. Now let's consider that she works only for 15 days a month, her earnings are 1,65,000‬/ month. Now, I can't assume that she doesn't pay taxes, but for every 1 person like the mehendi artist who might be paying taxes there might 9 others who aren't paying it. In this age of technology, why can't the government come up with ways to tax its citizens?

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Old 23rd June 2020, 20:34   #35
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Default Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening?

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Has there been any non plan expenditure on defense? What does raising military expenses have to do with increasing fuel prices?
Taxes. The Government refills their coffers through extra taxes.

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It's just sad that people are brazen enough to blame military expense to justify an extremely flawed economic ministry that has affected the Indian automobile industry amongst other casualties.
You are entitled to your opinion. I am to mine. I think the country is doing fantastically well in some aspects from an economic point of view and I say this as a qualified Chartered Accountant by profession. Damage to the Automobile Industry has less to do with Economic Policies and more to do with COVID-19 as more and more WHF increases and new car/motorcycle purchases go down. Tourism is also hit and will not recover for a long time. The same with Airlines.

On the other side - My friend who works at a popular Broadband Provider just purchased a brand new TUV300. He upgraded from a Alto 800. My other friend who has a IT Equipment store ran of out CPU's, Laptop's, Monitor's, Routers etc as all the companies started buying. He is looking to buy a BS6 Suzuki Vstorm.

The shake up's are a byproduct of the new system generated by the Pandemic. I would not blame any Government in this. Even if it were Congress / BJP / AAP / MVA at the centre - no Government would have been able to get out of this boiling hot soup in a way where there were no causalities - either Economic, Human or Infrastructural.

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Originally Posted by romeomidhun View Post
The case is the same from the birth of our country.


Our forces did the same or even more at earlier times also. Have you heard about Kargil and Bangladesh war (1971)? The taxes were not this high at those times.

I actually think these are very reasonable increases.

The Chinese border issue happened on June 15th. The hike in fuel prices after the lock-down started even before that - on June 6th. Are you saying everything was planned? Am I smelling something?

No - but the prolonged increase (or the not ceasing of the increase) is probably because of the high military expense. And I have absolutely no problems with this.

Same is the case with many common people in India. They don't have other income. Banks won't give them loans. That is not the case with the govt. Think from common man's point of view also.
I am a common man. I am a salaried guy but we are doing the best we can. COVID 19 has been a great equalizer of some sorts. A friend of mine who was a First Officer with one of the Indian Private Airlines and was earning a cool 3.50-4 lakh a month is now soon going to be of a job. Who would have ever thought that would happen? As a Chartered Accountant having a (only?) 5 figure salary - I thought I would never be able to get to my Pilot pal's salary ever in my lifetime but right now I am happy with earnings what I have.

Its tough - COVID19 has thrown away established theories and established practices out of the window but we are where we stand right now.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 23rd June 2020 at 21:42. Reason: broken quote tags
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Old 23rd June 2020, 20:42   #36
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Default Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening?

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Originally Posted by rahul4321 View Post
You are entitled to your opinion. I am to mine. I think the country is doing fantastically well in some aspects from an economic point of view and I say this as a qualified Chartered Accountant by profession. Damage to the Automobile Industry has less to do with Economic Policies and more to do with COVID-19 as more and more WHF increases and new car/motorcycle purchases go down.
Good to know. I guess the threads on this forum about the automobile industry slowdown in the last 1.5 years were all fake news. All is well. Only Covid to blame, and Fuel Price hike to the rescue. And if soldiers die, blame them instead of the folks we pay taxes to. Truly, good to know what patriotism feels like these days.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 20:49   #37
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Good to know. I guess the threads on this forum about the automobile industry slowdown in the last 1.5 years were all fake news. All is well. Only Covid to blame, and Fuel Price hike to the rescue. And if soldiers die, blame them instead of the folks we pay taxes to. Truly, good to know what patriotism feels like these days.
Slowdown's happen periodically. Recessions happen periodically. This is not news. Its a curve which industries get in and get out of. I never said anything soldiers and the Government who we pay taxes to. That is your own derivation. It has nothing to do with me. For me - Its not patriotism. Its cold hard logic and practical thinking"
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Old 23rd June 2020, 20:54   #38
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Default Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening?

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Originally Posted by rahul4321 View Post

You are entitled to your opinion. I am to mine. I think the country is doing fantastically well in some aspects from an economic point of view and I say this as a qualified Chartered Accountant by profession. Damage to the Automobile Industry has less to do with Economic Policies and more to do with COVID-19 as more and more WHF increases and new car/motorcycle purchases go down. Tourism is also hit and will not recover for a long time. The same with Airlines.

On the other side - My friend who works at a popular Broadband Provider just purchased a brand new TUV300. He upgraded from a Alto 800. My other friend who has a IT Equipment store ran of out CPU's, Laptop's, Monitor's, Routers etc as all the companies started buying. He is looking to buy a BS6 Suzuki Vstorm.
Well, that's the problem my friend. You are giving examples of the privileged ones, while you are forget that the vast majority of this country don't even have savings for even a month.

The vast majority of road side vendors that my dad knows are still in their native. Some of them spent whatever money they had to come back to Bangalore around May end but the police sent them back at the border saying that they have to go through institutional quarantine if they wanted to enter Karnataka at the borders. They didn't have to money to return back home, how will they pay for institutional quarantine? My dad had to drive all the way to Hosur to give them some money so that they can go back to their native and lent others some money so that they can support their family till the situation becomes better.

The people whom I mentioned in above example are the ones that make up the vast population of India. The ones Government should stand with at the time of unprecedented crisis like Covid-19 but we forget them because we always compare people in our circle and don't know how it is to be someone who has to sell everyday without even one day leave to support his family.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 20:57   #39
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You are rather lucky to be speaking from a privileged household where you don't have to worry about the hike of Rs.10 on a liter of fuel but unfortunately the majority of Indians aren't in a position to such privilege.

What privileged household sir? I come from a lower middle class family and became a CA after flunking a thousand times.

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I have been striking up conversations with lots of daily wagers and their situation is grim. Almost everyone of them has run out of money and they are borrowing money to run their family. Rs.10/ Liter increase may not be much for the privileged ones but it is a lot of auto drivers/daily wagers and others.
I agree with you. Some of us in the community tried to do our part by paying the daily wagers we know (maids, vehicle cleaners) their full monthly salary even when they did not work and visit our homes during lockdown. I do not have that much money where I can help out all of the underprivileged ones but I am doing my bit


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Unfortunately, even people whom we consider middle class are struggling to make ends meet. My MIL's school recently fired a lot of staff because of the non-payment of fees. (That's different story and has a thread of its own). One of the fired teacher got married last year and his wife is caring. He is searching a job in these difficult times. So people from different walks of life are struggling, it should be the government's responsibility to make sure that the citizens don't struggle.
Yes its true - its sad. All across the country, people are being laid off (my own employer is doing that). But businesses also need to survive. I guess in the past where the Government has been asked to bail out certain companies / industries - and it has thought of doing so, it would not be able to even consider this bail out. All industries across all domains are on the verge of collapsing. Nobody has that kind of money to fund the citizens. You might say UK and US operated a furlough scheme. But the population and the purchasing power of their money is very high. That for us has been a problem since ages and has been handed down Government to Government. It is not something we have been able to solve sadly.


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I would blame the government for the lack of foresight in the way it taxes its citizens. How long will they keep saying that only 3 to 4 crores of people are paying tax? The government should come up with ways to bring the vast majority of citizens into the tax regime and stop depending on indirect tax/fuels and other stupids ideas whenever they run out of money.
Fully Agreed. There are very few people in the country paying Direct Taxes

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My friend got married recently and the mehindi artist was charging her 11k for the bridal mehendi. Now let's consider that she works only for 15 days a month, her earnings are 1,65,000‬/ month. Now, I can't assume that she doesn't pay taxes, but for every 1 person like the mehendi artist who might be paying taxes there might 9 others who aren't paying it. In this age of technology, why can't the government come up with ways to tax its citizens?
Agreed again. The Ratio i had heard is more like 2:98 - 2 people pay taxes, 98 do not. Its a sad situation and has to be corrected

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Well, that's the problem my friend. You are giving examples of the privileged ones, while you are forget that the vast majority of this country don't even have savings for even a month.

The vast majority of road side vendors that my dad knows are still in their native. Some of them spent whatever money they had to come back to Bangalore around May end but the police sent them back at the border saying that they have to go through institutional quarantine if they wanted to enter Karnataka at the borders. They didn't have to money to return back home, how will they pay for institutional quarantine? My dad had to drive all the way to Hosur to give them some money so that they can go back to their native and lent others some money so that they can support their family till the situation becomes better.

The people whom I mentioned in above example are the ones that make up the vast population of India. The ones Government should stand with at the time of unprecedented crisis like Covid-19 but we forget them because we always compare people in our circle and don't know how it is to be someone who has to sell everyday without even one day leave to support his family.

I agree with you completely and I wish things could be different. I was one of the people you mentioned growing up (not me - but my family) so I know what you mean. However, what is the alternative? Where is the money going to come from? The previous Governments before this Government did not save any. This Government seems hell bent on doing the same (if I were to speak honestly). Now if the previous Governments did not save for a "Rainy Day" or should i call it for a "Pandemic" - how can we blame the current Government for it? What is the solution?

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Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 23rd June 2020 at 21:52. Reason: Merged back to back posts. Fixed improper quoting.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 21:09   #40
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What privileged household sir? I come from a lower middle class family and became a CA after flunking a thousand times
Privileged - You studied hard and now you are a CA. Maybe you were underprivileged and education helped you to come out of it and now you enjoy a 5-figure salary.

Underprivileged - People who had drop out at various stages of education for whatever reasons and now have to make ends meet by doing odd jobs so that they and their family can make it to the next day.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 21:16   #41
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Privileged - You studied hard and now you are a CA. Maybe you were underprivileged and education helped you to come out of it and now you enjoy a 5-figure salary.

Underprivileged - People who had drop out at various stages of education for whatever reasons and now have to make ends meet by doing odd jobs so that they and their family can make it to the next day.
I had to stop studying CA and get a job as an Accountant in a small Restaurant on the basis of my Bachelor's because the family needed me to get that salary home after my dad passed away when I was in Second Year Bachelors. I did not start to study for my CA again until another 5 years. Where would you classify me now?

Anyway, gentlemen - I have said what I wanted to on the topic. It was nice to know all of your views as well. Goodbye and Good luck. Stay Safe

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Old 23rd June 2020, 21:26   #42
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My country is cornered on all sides from neighbours who wish to see it fall. Our Armed Forces have hit back at one of the aggressive countries who is now sitting on our doorstep with all its might. If my country needs to increase taxes, fuel prices, commodity prices by 10-20%, I have absolutely no problems. The sorties in the Air do not come cheap. The consumables of the Fighter Planes do not come cheap. The Heavy Troop Movement and Artillery movement to forward bases do not come cheap. The 500 crore sanctioned for defence purchases has to be sanctioned from somewhere. With COVID- the Government's coffers not only ran dry as they were pumping out money for medical, migrants, trains, buses etc but their earnings from GST and other forms of Indirect Tax also dried up as Restaurants, Salon's, Malls and all other types of business establishments were shut.

If this is the price to pay - I am happy to pay it. Afterall, I would rather give this Government the money they need to defend me as oppposed to keep the money in my bank and be taken over by a Foreign Government who will make all of our lives a living hell.
You are hurting over govt's revenue loss. What about people's loss of earnings? Many lost jobs. Most got pay cuts. What about them? Let Govt also take an income cut. Why is it that Govt is always bent on meeting its revenue targets one way or the other? Their expenditure is also down if the official machinery is not functioning at full steam.

Crude was around 154 USD a barrel in 2014 beginning when petrol sold at 75 rupees and LPG cylinder at 325 or so. From 2016 onwards slide in crude prices started, thanks to US shale oil glut. Whole world enjoyed low fuel prices but we were denied that benefit. On the contrary prices of petrol and LPG rose. From 2016 to Dec. 2019, excise duty on motor spirit was raised 11 times, keeping the fuel prices same and pocketing huge revenue. I read somewhere they earned 25 lakh crore excess tax on M.O.P. I assumed it to be some kind of reserve money. Now, where is that reserve money? All this before covid. Also, last year around 1.76 crore was withdrawn from RBI, another first in India's history. But as soon as covid happened they said they have no money. Then, thousands of crores were collected for PM care fund on which audit is being denied.

If covid is bad time for India, it is bad for every country in the world. Other countries have put money in peoples' accounts, lowered taxes. Did we? I still fondly remember the bygone days when petrol prices rose just once a year during budget in February and by around 2 to 3 rupees max. Now, it has gone up by almost 10 rupees in my town in last 12-13 days.

As for war with China, it's not a war. Just a border skirmish and, thankfully, it seems to be almost over. I don't believe a country the size of India can be invaded by China. And, I also don't believe in arms race. We are bleeding white as it is, getting into an arms race would send us bankrupt.
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Old 23rd June 2020, 21:33   #43
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Default Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening?

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My country is cornered on all sides from neighbours who wish to see it fall. Our Armed Forces have hit back at one of the aggressive countries who is now sitting on our doorstep with all its might. If my country needs to increase taxes, fuel prices, commodity prices by 10-20%, I have absolutely no problems. The sorties in the Air do not come cheap. The consumables of the Fighter Planes do not come cheap. The Heavy Troop Movement and Artillery movement to forward bases do not come cheap. The 500 crore sanctioned for defence purchases has to be sanctioned from somewhere
Your justification sounds like this is the first time Pakistan and China have had conflicts with India, first time Indian air force is doing sorties, first time artillery movement is happening at borders.

This kind of pseudo patriotism is any Government's strength
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Old 23rd June 2020, 21:42   #44
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Default Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening?

Dare I say that these fuel price increases mean nothing to me, at least immediately? But is anyone going anywhere right now? I'm stuck, for one. If inflation is what worries you, well, add that to the list brother!

I'm putting on my horned spectacles and a tweed jacket now. My hair is all ruffled and my face sports a frown. The blackboard is up before you, so pay attention. Silence!

Tax mop-up = Tax rate * Total number of taxed transactions

The number of fuel purchase transactions has gone down drastically, because of the lockdowns. So various state governments and the Centre are trying to keep the tax mop-up as near to the normal level as possible. It's simple. Well, the Centre has been upping the Excise rate on fuels way more than the states have upped their VAT to be fair. But thou shalt not refer to the virus or the Chinese border crisis, lest thou shalt be damned and relegated to the annals of history as a Bhakth.

Well, can't any of the states cut their VAT at this hour of need? But wait - a certain tax mop-up figure has to be met to pay for expenses, so never mind. And since there are states run by "other" political parties, I've right now qualified as an anti-national as well, by reasoning it out on behalf of them.

I can have the cake and eat it too, see? I can be a Bhakth and an Anti-national. I can run with the hares and hunt with the hounds. And so on and so forth.

This has to be the most inconsequential thread on this forum, really since it's fait accompli all the way. I'm much interested in rather learning how to improve my fitness levels.

Last edited by locusjag : 23rd June 2020 at 21:42. Reason: Clarified my opening sentences...
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Old 23rd June 2020, 21:44   #45
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Default Re: Fuel prices increase 16 days in a row. What the hell is happening?

While Govts might have vested interest in charging any amount of duty, the question is an ethical one:

Considering the fuel price affects every citizen of this country either directly or indirectly, the question is are we paying a 'fair' price to an essential commodity?
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