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Old 14th January 2021, 11:56   #286
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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Originally Posted by rkv_2401 View Post
In my experience, there is still a lot of "turbo lag"(although the technical term is boost threshold) below 2000RPM, wherein you could absolutely floor the throttle at 1300-1350 mark and almost nothing would happen till the 1700 mark is breached, beyond which it absolutely takes off.
Completely off-topic, but this summarizes the reason for picking my team-bhp handle @2000rpm (when things are about to get exciting)!
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Old 14th January 2021, 12:12   #287
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

This is one car I would like to buy purely based on looks. Glad it's getting a better engine. That blue color looks stunning!
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Old 14th January 2021, 12:42   #288
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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Originally Posted by Reinhard View Post
The last reasonably well made Marketing video from Tata Motors came with the 2020 Harrier launch I feel. Everything else since last 1 year - Altroz, Tiago, Nexon, Tigor on the marketing side - is very low key & in some cases outright boring.

This particular "launch video" is really rock bottom. For something really eagerly awaited, it wasn't exciting at all.
I do agree that this particular launch video of Altroz-iTurbo is lame and not very interesting. But it wonít be the only one or the last one.

However, I donít know which Harrier video you are talking about, but the official videos of all their products on their YouTube channel, released in the last 1 year, have been killing it lately.

Nexon official product video :

This is on the Nexon website too and IMHO this video is smashing to say the least and one of the best official product videos of any car in India.

Nexon other marketing video:
Hilarious take on safety


Altroz official product video (brochure) :

Altroz other/marketing videos:



Tiago official marketing video :


None of the above videos that came out in the last 1 year look boring to me. In fact they are all pretty smart, (remind me of smart TV ads of VW polo) and make for good marketing.
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Old 14th January 2021, 13:51   #289
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
Ahh.. Old school, honest, rugged and reliable mechanicals is how I pronounce it!

Coming back to the topic, 0-100 time of 11.9 second is absolutely cool, how many of you guys can make a City actually hit 100 under 12 seconds? Just try once, and see still how quick it feels.
Yes, I too agree that 0-100 is a pretty pointless exercise.

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Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
Just look at it as an option of a car, which offers you fantastic driveability. You are not going to hit 2000 rpm in a city drive most of the time But yes, you hit 1500-3000 rpm range very frequently, and that's where we need the ample power.
When do you shift gears, then? I've always shifted around 2000RPM. I feel the need to go higher only on naturally aspirated petrols.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VKumar View Post

Example 2: Ciaz 1.5 DDiS
Lowest power and torque rating among competitors
Drive it to believe it, the engine starts pulling right from 1500 rpm, you don't enjoy the flat out figures, but you get an awesome in-gear drivability. Drive it from 60-120 in sixth gear and you will start singing appreciations for this motor.

Even Innova 2.5 also had around 200 nm torque only, have you seen it pulling uphill against the likes of XUV and Safari which had 320 nm, or even the Hexa, which had 400? Only figures never dictate the drivability IMO.

So, don't go by the numbers guys. Drive it to believe it.
Yes. My Elantra has more torque than the Innova 2.5, but probably isn't as easily drivable.

But for now, we only have the torque curve to go by. And this is the best guess we can take. The only way to really know the drivability of the car is to wait for the reviews/test drive impressions. Until then, we won't know how early on those 140nms are generated, how they are sent to the road(gearbox also plays a big role!), or anything else. But purely going on speculation, considering that this is a small non-direct injection engine, and that all turbo-petrols show similar torque graphs, I don't expect this to be the killer engine it's made out to be. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, come review time!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
The T-GDi is a funny motor IMO. It feels good only till it is inside a small and light weight hatch. Add the weight, and the kid simply loses the muscle. I can't imagine going uphill in a fully loaded manual car with 1.0 T-GDi. Fine it has 118 bhp, but I am not willing to drive over 2000 rpm anywhere, leave aside 5500.
So far, we don't know if the drivability of this engine will be better or worse than the T-GDi. Do you mean to say that based on the specs and torque curve we've seen, you believe this turbo-petrol engine would be better than Hyundai's 1.0 T-GDi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VKumar View Post

I would any day prefer a 1.2l turbo petrol motor over a 1.0l unit. It gives me better low end, a more linear power delivery, and if the specific power output is lesser - I can expect a higher reliability and lower maintenance in long run too, along with a higher FE. Everyone knows the fuel sipping habit of turbo petrols. A bigger block with a smaller turbine attached to it, is any day my preference over a smaller block with a bigger turbine attached to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VKumar View Post

That's the point man, this engine is still 20% larger in displacement than the 1.0l engines. My point is rather simple, couple a 1.2l motor to a turbo, and you get a vehicle which is more driveable than the one that gets a 1.0l motor.
Both of your statements imply that this will be less driveable than the example I've provided, right? The point of my example was to illustrate that these motors don't generate torque as early on in the rev-range as they say they do. That's why I'm somewhat pessimistic. Too small an engine, no direct injection, and a low peak torque figure to boot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VKumar View Post

I always say this, comparing turbo petrols and turbo diesels is not viable, even if the torque figures are same, a turbo petrol pulls even a heavier car in a more brisk manner than a turbo diesel can. You think a Swift diesel will accelerate quicker than a Nexon petrol?
I'm not focusing on the comparison of turbo-petrols and diesels. I'm illustrating the examples of game-changing engines of the past, such as the
VW 1.2 TSi, Fiat Multijet as Maruti's 1.3DDiS, etc. Both of these engines have seen high rates of adoption, globally, since around 2008. Seeing that these engines have already been done and dusted with, I think it's fair to expect an exciting engine launch in 2020 to be comparable to these standards.

I don't see the need to segregate sharply based on engine size - Tata Motors made the choice to pop in a 1 litre turbo petrol. They could have put in a 1.2L Revotron, this same engine with a higher state of tune, or an engine of any other capacity. Rather, I believe it should be segregated based on car segment - and these game-changing engines were available on cars the same size as the Altroz(Polo, Swift, etc.)

Turbo-petrols are certainly faster but turbo-diesels have had, in my experience, better drivability. A Nexon petrol may be faster than the Swift diesel in a drag race, but what about compared to a Nexon diesel in an in-gear pull from 1500-3000RPM? This harkens back to 0-100 times being pointless. I'm sure we've all seen cab drivers lugging their Swift Dzires and G-i10s, merrily shifting up at just 1200RPM. I think that proves my point. Both turbo petrols and turbo diesels have the sweet spot in the same 1500-3000RPM range where the majority of people spend most of their driving time in. And in that range, turbo diesel variants of the same car should definitely pull harder and have better drivability.

Thanks to this, I think there's a decent chance the 1.5L diesel will still be the preferential motor for prospective Tata Altroz owners. I mean, if drivability is the main concern, why look past a larger-sized, pretty decent turbo-diesel engine? But I would be happy to be proven wrong.

Last edited by rkv_2401 : 14th January 2021 at 13:55. Reason: Grammar
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Old 14th January 2021, 15:14   #290
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

Tata seems to have a strategy regarding autobox launches, never immediately! Frustrating, but it keeps the heart longing.
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Old 14th January 2021, 15:35   #291
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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Originally Posted by VKumar View Post
I would any day prefer a 1.2l turbo petrol motor over a 1.0l unit. It gives me better low end, a more linear power delivery, and if the specific power output is lesser - I can expect a higher reliability and lower maintenance in long run too, along with a higher FE. Everyone knows the fuel sipping habit of turbo petrols. A bigger block with a smaller turbine attached to it, is any day my preference over a smaller block with a bigger turbine attached to it.

So, don't go by the numbers guys. Drive it to believe it.
Excellent points, thanks, the last line sums it up perfectly.
Driveability, like you mentioned is most important. At the end of the day its us who have to deal with the real world FE, maintenance costs and A.S.S. visits. So that should also be equally emphasized along with the performance numbers.
Ditto for the engine-turbo statement, IMO turbo-petrols shouldn't drop below 1.2, already discussed in this thread (Petrol: Smaller turbo engine vs larger naturally-aspirated one)

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Originally Posted by Rhik94 View Post
I am so glad, that someone else noticed the "weird-square-needled instrument cluster". I have been losing my mind over it ever since I saw it. It definitely is a little off set but until now, the people who I asked for an opinion for, did not feel anything to be amiss with the design of the Tachometer.
It looks extremely out of place and out of sync.
Reminded me of the first gen Etios's instruments which looked horrible IMHO.
And I hate the new "digital" instruments of the latest gen Tiago/Nexon even more, its in contrast to the otherwise well done facelift
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Old 14th January 2021, 15:36   #292
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

I might be wrong, but I really feel this turbo engine wouldn't increase sales by a huge margin. It will sell 800-1000 units extra per month but not beyond that. The 1.2 NA Altroz itself is showing steady increase in sales numbers. Unless Tata prices it well, I really don't feel it will be as succesful as, lets say, the Polo 1.0 TSI.
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Old 14th January 2021, 15:50   #293
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

Altroz bookings promo:
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Old 14th January 2021, 16:28   #294
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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Originally Posted by Tojo_GotBhp View Post
3. Claimed 0-100 kmph timing of 11.9s.
A 0-100 time of nearly 12 seconds is slow. What's the point of having a turbo if the car is going to be so slow?
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Old 14th January 2021, 16:28   #295
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

When MG recently introduced Hinglish voice recognition, entire blog was like wowww, what responsiveness by the company. Tata here does the same, at the same time and also gives better engine options and other options. But the blog now is like why the car is with 5 speed MT, why not the same engine tune as Nexon, etc etc.

Anyway - One good thing about the 5 speed MT- I am buying the car for me and the Mrs. She is not a petrol head and she hesitates to use even the 5th gear. Upgrading from a 5 speed MT, and having driven 6 speed MTs, I really dont miss the 6th gear. So, maybe IMHO, we are being too nitpicky!
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Old 14th January 2021, 16:43   #296
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

When the Altroz was launched, there was a lot of hue & cry in this very forum as well as other forums on how the car didn't have 'enough' power, and how everyone wanted a more powerful engine. The new turbo model, definitely will be priced higher or even at par of the diesel model, and honestly wont be returning fuel efficiency figures anywhere near the current model. If all those concerned people were really concerned, the new turbo model should sell almost at the same rate as the non turbo petrol model!

When it comes to reality, we all know that is never going to happen. Indian consumers are price sensitive, as well as the majority or the masses are satisfied with the older 1.2 petrol itself. If it was the pure petrol heads who wanted a turbo engine, well now that they have it, will they be rushing to the nearest dealership with their chequebooks? We wont be seeing much of that too. All we will be seeing now will be people complaining about TATA using the 5 speed gearbox, and how tata had to detune the engine for the 5 speed gearbox. Agree that a 6 speed gearbox would have been the perfect match. But that combo would place the price of the car dangerously close to Nexon territory.

Balancing the engine, gearbox and other features in the highly price sensitive and technology ignorant market like India is a dangerous job. Ultimately majority of the customers will be looking at how the car appears to them and what the on road cost is. To this market, a N/A engine or a Turbo engine doesn't have any other impact other than the higher price for the turbo model.

Cut some slack to TATA, which other manufacturer in India is updating their models so much based on customer feedback? Take the tiago for example, which has been continuously receiving silent updates and fixes ever since it was released. The effort needs to be commented, unlike the major players who release sticker jobs and bumper changes as new model once in a year or two.
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Old 14th January 2021, 19:06   #297
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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Originally Posted by Raghuwire View Post
When MG recently introduced Hinglish voice recognition, entire blog was like wowww, what responsiveness by the company. Tata here does the same, at the same time and also gives better engine options and other options. But the blog now is like why the car is with 5 speed MT, why not the same engine tune as Nexon, etc etc.

Anyway - One good thing about the 5 speed MT- I am buying the car for me and the Mrs. She is not a petrol head and she hesitates to use even the 5th gear. Upgrading from a 5 speed MT, and having driven 6 speed MTs, I really dont miss the 6th gear. So, maybe IMHO, we are being too nitpicky!
Actually took the time to skim the 2021 Hector facelift review and literally found just two members who mentioned the Hinglish voice recognition thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parrys View Post
The claim to be British, owned by SAIC from China, but the only manufacturer to offer Hinglish voice commands. One has to appreciate how MG Motor India is trying hard to please the buyer and change the overall market sentiment towards the brand. And for the price, the Hector is a decent buy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aniket Verma View Post
This sir is the single most important upgrade. I personally know many families from extended NCR, who had moved to Harrier or other SUVs b'cos of poor knowledge / control on spoken English. Quotes from an acquaintance on why he didn't gone ahead with Hector after initial gaga "Apni be-edjati thodi karni hai doston ke saamne itni angrezi bol ke"

Looks like, the management was conscious to these small feedbacks from the showrooms.
Even did a cursory search and well Search for Entire Blog going wowww for Hinglish. The same two members unless you discount the team who took the effort to make the review.

I feel Team-BHP is quickly becoming somewhat like the Youtube or Twitter comment section where in anything less than stellar feedback of TATA products will immediately be called out by multiple people who simply don't seem to like any negative feedback against TATA.

Before I am called out for being an anti-national, a little disclaimer. TATA Altroz Turbo Petrol DCT is something I have been waiting for since the Q4 of last year (even told my dad that this is the one we will be getting next year..after his retirement he has got tired of waiting for me to purchase the car and has threatened to buy it himself soon).

Imagine my disappointment when TATA finally reveals that they are launching only the manual this time. This is fine since TATA needs time to work out the kinks in any new technology and they have a reputation for bungling their v1.0 product.

But in the premium hatchback segment where you need to beat the i20 how can it hurt TATA to give us the full-monty spec that Nexon's engine comes with and a six-speed gearbox. After all, didn't someone at TATA say that they don't want to compete in a price war and that they believe that the Indian consumer is ready to pay more for a safe well engineered product.

If so, then how can it harm them when they have enough of a price gap to get us the Nexon engine with a six speed gearbox and still have the 5 star GNCAP to brag about. Doesn't this place them at a more lucrative position? After all, they can continue to sell the 1.2NA with the 5 speed (and compete against the i20 with the 1.2 kappa petrol while still having better safety ratings).

Personal opinion- Fanboys and jingoistic individuals (who confuse this with patriotism) will only hold back a car manufacturer and Nation from progressing forward. How can you achieve progress without constructive criticism?

I have always heard that RE is a company in the enviable position of being able to sell anything just because their loyal customer base will lap it up. Honestly though, I think these days RE will be jealous of how many people (both the marketing guys and common citizens) jump to TATAs defense.
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Old 14th January 2021, 19:27   #298
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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Originally Posted by JithinR View Post
Actually took the time to skim the 2021 Hector facelift review and literally found just two members who mentioned the Hinglish voice recognition thing.





Even did a cursory search and well Search for Entire Blog going wowww for Hinglish. The same two members unless you discount the team who took the effort to make the review.

I feel Team-BHP is quickly becoming somewhat like the Youtube or Twitter comment section where in anything less than stellar feedback of TATA products will immediately be called out by multiple people who simply don't seem to like any negative feedback against TATA


Hey, I did not get the point being tagged here, could you elaborate?
Did it sound like me being PRO MG or Anti Tata?
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Old 14th January 2021, 19:30   #299
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

Few more pictures of the Tata Altroz Turbo in new Harbour Blue color. Looks smashing.

Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised-20210114_192607.jpg

Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised-20210114_192605.jpg

Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised-20210114_192604.jpg

Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised-20210114_192602.jpg

Source: Hormazd Sorabjee Twitter account.
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Old 14th January 2021, 20:03   #300
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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Originally Posted by parrys View Post
Hey, I did not get the point being tagged here, could you elaborate?
Did it sound like me being PRO MG or Anti Tata?
Neither. I was just pointing out to the OP that his inference of an entire community going gaga over MGs introduction of Hinglish is not right and more like an exaggeration of enormous proportion.

Besides, I dont see why it's a problem when people appreciate a new feature in a car. No issues on that end from me.
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