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Old 8th December 2020, 13:43   #121
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

Well, I don't know whether this is a good choice, only time will tell. I hope Tata doesn't suffer from any issues - for the sake of reliability & their mechanics. I've seen a fair share of Dry & Wet clutch DCT gearboxes (Laura, Polo, Fiesta in India) have issues, and I'm sure nobody has been able to solve it. (We're all moving to either to CVTs or torque converter automatics)

I think this transmission is only suited to highway cruising & spirited track driving. Wonder why Tata couldn't source a 5 speed or 6 speed gearbox for their Altroz? There are many reliable units out there for the front engine front wheel drive combination.

Last edited by Aditya : 8th December 2020 at 20:02. Reason: Typo
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Old 8th December 2020, 15:23   #122
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

I did some basic research on the Schaeffler transmission and found that they don't actually make the transmission / gearbox. What they actually make is various parts such as clutches, gears, shifters, harmonic dampers, etc. They also make both dry and wet dual clutches.

So which gearbox is Tata using for the Altroz? Could it be a hybrid Punch Power gearbox with the Schaeffler wet clutch? Whatever it is, I hope for Tata's sake, that it's reliable and glitch-free from day 1.
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Old 8th December 2020, 15:47   #123
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motard_Blr View Post
I did some basic research on the Schaeffler transmission and found that they don't actually make the transmission / gearbox. What they actually make is various parts such as clutches, gears, shifters, harmonic dampers, etc. They also make both dry and wet dual clutches.
I think Lumax is going to build the gearshifter.
Source: https://www.autocarpro.in/news-natio...a-motors-77866

Last edited by skarthiksr : 8th December 2020 at 16:10. Reason: corrected gearbox to gearshifter
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Old 8th December 2020, 16:00   #124
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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Originally Posted by skarthiksr View Post
I think it is Lumax which is going to build the gearbox.
Source: https://www.autocarpro.in/news-natio...a-motors-77866
Doesn't the article heading itself mention DCT gearshifter (not gearbox)‽
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Old 8th December 2020, 17:59   #125
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

Does it mean that Nexon will also get DCT transmission in future?

I am not sure why all of a sudden everyone is into DCT's and not into conventional TC which are more reliable. Only Volkswagen Polo has it now in premium hatchbacks, which is a real irony since just one year back they were the only ones having DCT!!
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Old 8th December 2020, 19:31   #126
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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Originally Posted by skarthiksr View Post
I think Lumax is going to build the gearshifter.
Source: https://www.autocarpro.in/news-natio...a-motors-77866
Gear shifter in from Lumax refers to the great lever inside the cabin. There's a photo of that in the article.

Gear shifter from Schaeffler refers to the mechanism consisting of shifter forks, guides and cams inside the gearbox.
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Old 8th December 2020, 19:53   #127
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

They've now updated the article. Schaeffler will supply only some of the components. The gearbox will be a dry clutch unit from Punch.

Last edited by ajmat : 8th December 2020 at 21:36. Reason: typo
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Old 9th December 2020, 09:07   #128
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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They've now updated the article. Schaeffler will supply only some of the components. The gearbox will be a dry clutch unit from Punch.
Makes more sense now given the costs of wet clutch one.

Should have gone for TC box. Harrier has excellent gear box and so does Hexa. Test drove Hexa automatic multiple times before buying the manual due to lack of safety features on auto one.
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Old 9th December 2020, 09:20   #129
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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Originally Posted by nisshith View Post
Does it mean that Nexon will also get DCT transmission in future?

I am not sure why all of a sudden everyone is into DCT's and not into conventional TC which are more reliable.
Exactly! You just spoke my mind. I think everyone is going with the flow while I really don't see any reason of dumping tried & tested TC.
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Old 9th December 2020, 10:04   #130
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

Wouldn't a TC box lead to absymal real world fuel efficiency figures? One of the reason, I had to strike out EcoSport 1.5 TC was because people were reporting below 8kmpl figures in heavy Bengaluru traffic.

Now from what I can understand Nexon does better giving around 9 to 11kmpl inside city but introduce a TC into the equation and I guess that would be unacceptable to most of the general public.

Even TATA fanboys who think all Maruti guys just care about fuel efficiency figures and resale value will start complaining (even if they staunchly deny it now) with such low figures.
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Old 9th December 2020, 10:08   #131
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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Exactly! You just spoke my mind. I think everyone is going with the flow while I really don't see any reason of dumping tried & tested TC.
If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say it's due to FE. India is an incredibly FE sensitive market and people would prefer poor mechanics and even suffering from reliability issues than spending a little extra on the fuel. I won't lie that initial FE figures of my TC Polo were a bit disappointing after coming from a Baleno but I've learned to make my peace with it. I don't look at the FE anymore and focus on the driving. But it takes an effort to give up the precious FE.

That's why the TCs you see in the wild are mostly on the Diesels, it makes sense. I do wish Ford's TDCi came with a TC.
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Old 9th December 2020, 10:37   #132
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

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Originally Posted by JithinR View Post
Wouldn't a TC box lead to absymal real world fuel efficiency figures? One of the reason, I had to strike out EcoSport 1.5 TC was because people were reporting below 8kmpl figures in heavy Bengaluru traffic.
Fair point. But if reliability & driveability is the prime focus, then I guess it is touch & go between TC & DCT
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Old 9th December 2020, 12:20   #133
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

Quote:
Originally Posted by JithinR View Post
Wouldn't a TC box lead to absymal real world fuel efficiency figures? One of the reason, I had to strike out EcoSport 1.5 TC was because people were reporting below 8kmpl figures in heavy Bengaluru traffic.
.
The degree of 'abysmal' will depend upon the transmission itself. In heavy Bengaluru traffic, even a manual transmission car will give very poor FE and usually in single digit. Even my 1L Celerio would give 11kmpl pre lockdown in thick traffic. If you compare an equivalent MT to a TC AT, I think we can achieve around 90% efficiency especially in city traffic where the torque converter will never get to lock up and there will be losses.

For a manufacturer, this is where opinions will differ. If you have two years to develop a product, they can have two options(just an example):
1. Take an existing TC transmission offering from a reliable supplier, work on its shortcomings like poor FE, performance issues and get it to perfection. This might not give you the media attention nor bragging rights on the brochure, but it will speak its own story of reliability - Reason why some manufacturers like Toyota, Maruti, Honda do not want to explore out of the box for our market. Few manufacturers like Aisin, ZF have transmissions they provide to multiple car manufacturers. And their core competency lies there.
2. Build a new DCT transmission which offers good FE comparable to a manual counterpart. Gives you all the limelight and bragging power in media, brochures, at least FE wont take a hit, you have a futuristic product at your hand. If there are issues it will be only known by the R&D team and later on by the customers.

So Tata chose to go the second way. Not sure if they are really building a transmission from scratch or are using some external help. Of course, it will be an engineering feat for them but like mentioned earlier, it is not impossible to use a TC AT and yet get decent FE along with other advantages, especially when the Indian traffic condition is brought into context. If someone gave me the same budget and time and allowed me to chose, I would anyday chose option 1 since I have a good place to start from and then hone the initial product into something better. But thats just my opinion and I think Tata would have had far better people to decide.

Last edited by Aditya : 9th December 2020 at 15:47. Reason: Typo
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Old 9th December 2020, 14:53   #134
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

While everyone else is busy talking about the gearbox, the million dollar question in my opinion is:

When will it get launched? Will they do it after the market trend does shift to something else?
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Old 9th December 2020, 17:16   #135
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Default Re: Tata Altroz with turbo petrol engine spotted undisguised

I just hope Tata knows what they are doing. There is no need to re-invent the wheel if they can source a competent/reliable Automatic Transmission from somewhere else.

They did the same thing with their 2.2 Liter common rail diesel engine. Spent a lot of money on getting it right by tuning it with the help of AVL and guess what happened ? They ended up using the 2.0L engine from Fiat in their flagship car. There is no need to get build a transmission just to make some noise and find a place amongst the Koreans. If it turns out to be unreliable, it will cause further damage to Tata's brand value which they are finally accumulating after a long time.
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