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Old 14th October 2020, 01:33   #106
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

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I was lucky that during my time the dealership didn't sell useless stuff like Engine flushing, radiator flushing, oil additives and other such stuff.
I do not think that Engine flushing and radiator flushing before oil/coolant change is useless stuff.
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Old 14th October 2020, 01:59   #107
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

To be honest, I have similar stories to share for several different manufacturers: Santa Fe (you need to change breaks pads on every service stories), to inflated bills on Polo by VW, to broken windshield by BMW.
And even independent service station's stories are not much different. I think it all goes to the where moral of our society is going. (Service garages are not known for their honesty in Western world either but definitely not to this level).

Last edited by aah78 : 14th October 2020 at 03:59. Reason: Spacing, grammar fixed.
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Old 14th October 2020, 03:46   #108
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

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Originally Posted by fazayal View Post
Number etching
Wow. I have never heard of this one but sounds like a good idea if you park your car in a theft prone area.

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Originally Posted by fazayal View Post
I was lucky that during my time the dealership didn't sell useless stuff like Engine flushing, radiator flushing, oil additives and other such stuff.
Radiator flush isn't a bad thing, especially after 50,000 kilometers. It needs to be done right though. Our high heat, traffic and humidity conditions mean you'd ideally want to do this around the 50k mark. In other parts of the world, they usually recommend a coolant flush closer to the 100k mile mark.

Thanks for sharing.
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Old 14th October 2020, 07:54   #109
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

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Originally Posted by sandeepmohan View Post
Radiator flush isn't a bad thing, especially after 50,000 kilometers. It needs to be done right though. Our high heat, traffic and humidity conditions mean you'd ideally want to do this around the 50k mark. In other parts of the world, they usually recommend a coolant flush closer to the 100k mile mark..
Neither of these is needed if coolant is changed on schedule (there is a year limit too not just a km limit, safest every 3 years)

Also make sure you use premixed coolant or if it is a coolant concentrate that needs water added make sure the mechanic uses distilled water and not ordinary tap water to make up the required quantity.
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:31   #110
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

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Aren't car batteries maintenance free nowadays?
Yes you are correct, but they still need distilled water. However, not in just 3 months of purchase. Maybe yearly not 100% sure.

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Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
For most cars, these service stations negotiate and get all fluids/oils in bulk. Engine oil, coolant, shampoo etc are stored in large barrels. No way they'll use 8 * 1L cans of coolant.
Exactly. Surprising thing is their user manual says 5 litres of coolant is enough. These stealerships charged me 8 litres. It is 275 bucks per litre. Tell me about daytime robbery.

I escalated to customer service, the regional manager is already aware of my AMT issues (story for another day) he called me and conferenced the SA and gave him a bashing of his lifetime. Today SA called me and informed that they are refunding the amount charged extra, approx 1000/- bucks in form of vouchers which can be redeemed at next service.

M&M should audit these stealerships regularly and penalize them if they are following such practices. I heard from 3M workshop manager that they are audited regularly and they check each and every bill and amount of stock ordered from 3M. This is to eliminate any discrepancies in quality, some workshops use non-3M products and charge 3M rates. They also measure the amount of stock left and compare the bills to see how much product was used.
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Old 14th October 2020, 11:45   #111
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

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M&M should audit these stealerships regularly and penalize them if they are following such practices.
I get my TUV300 serviced from VVC. Had a good experience the past 3 services. I tell them strictly adhere to the manual and do nothing more unless broken. Compared to my earlier experience of TATA A.S.S M&M is much better.
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Old 14th October 2020, 12:22   #112
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

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Originally Posted by shaheenazk View Post
I do not think that Engine flushing and radiator flushing before oil/coolant change is useless stuff.

QUOTE=sandeepmohan;4907648]

Radiator flush isn't a bad thing, especially after 50,000 kilometers. It needs to be done right though. Our high heat, traffic and humidity conditions mean you'd ideally want to do this around the 50k mark. In other parts of the world, they usually recommend a coolant flush closer to the 100k mile mark.

Thanks for sharing.[/quote]

None of the auto OEMs recommend it. If it was really something good, auto OEMs would have recommended them and made huge money out of them as well. In fact if your car is under warranty, you do Engine flush and something goes wrong with the engine, they can blame it on using unauthorised chemical and deny the warranty. I don't say they do, but they can as per their warranty terms and conditions.

I don't think sludging/scaling would develop in radiator due to heat, traffic or humidity which would make radiator flushing necessary. I am open to correct myself if I am wrong.

One should only do what is recommended in service schedule in owner's manual and nothing more. Service schedule however can get changed in between by the OEM. If it does dealership would have official bulletin from the OEM.
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Old 14th October 2020, 15:51   #113
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

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Originally Posted by fazayal View Post
QUOTE=sandeepmohan;4907648]
I don't think sludging/scaling would develop in radiator due to heat, traffic or humidity which would make radiator flushing necessary. I am open to correct myself if I am wrong.
My Indica's manual says coolant change every 20,000 kms or 2 years. Why flushing is necessary can be seen in the following videos:



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Old 14th October 2020, 17:08   #114
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

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1)By whom was the system created, was it not by these auto majors who could have envisioned and created a more robust system if they so wished? Blaming the system has become a fad for most people and companies who do not have the spine to take responsibility for the wrongdoings and start the change to a better model.

>> Please share what better model you think can work. Haven't you Seen Domino's or McD Sales person trying to sell you combos, family packs??? Everyone has targets & incentives attached. Every business wants to upsell to existing customers, There are extensive efforts at every business to raise the LTV from a customer.

2)Generalizing the whole Indian population by stating that the whole country has a lack of ethics at work is not right. There are many of us who make a decent respectable earning while not indulging in any misdeeds. Hard selling is not a crime but mis-seeling is and that is what most dealerships indulge in.

>> Debating on whole India's work ethic is not what's intended. It just what I think & feel after working on ground in such a role.

3)Working with yourself, if you are telling that by not being present we are expected to be milked, then there is no difference with an established and a run of the mill con artist. The reason we leave our vehicles with a authorized service center even after the warranty is because of the trust we have over the competence of the service skills and a belief that they will assist us in keeping our vehicles in top shape. If they skip required work in a service to favor add ons then its the fault of the company for not drilling down the importance of necessary upkeep and are infact putting our lives at risk.

>>Where did I write in my post that I work for Hero?? What i wrote was my personal observation & view on the topic. No one is forcefully milking anyone, You are pitched a service by a Dealership, its your decision to go for it or not. We leave our vehicles at authorized service center after warranty, so that if anything goes wrong , we have an establishment to come back to , Try that with a Road side mechanic/Shop. And the Staff is very well trained by OEM Technically, how much they have learnt can't be gauged at such huge volume. Company drills down hard on the necessary jobs done or not, There are very frequent audits at every OEM & the penalties are heavy.
The Service Advisor skimping on necessary items in my personal experience, The SA on the Last service of My Honda city removed the Transmission oil from the estimate when i asked him that the Estimate is way above the normal, Note Underbody rust coating was not removed, Brake oil Flush & change was not removed.

4)Dear sir, it is not in the right of a dealership to fleece me, yes they are entitled to profit from providing service to me but it is not a right to fleece anyone by mis-selling. It can be considered fraudulent to profit from such scenarios but living in a capitalistic society much cannot be expected from dealerships.

>>The Addons are sold to you not forced upon. They can decide what price they want to sell the add-on services at & what hard sell tactics they want to use.

5)This might come as a personal attack but it is not, out of genuine concern I would have to realize that with company personnel justifying such fraudulent act and behavior its no wonder that companies like Hero are heading to their own demise.

>> Thanks for clarifying on the personal attack front. I just shared some information that might be useful for someone to keep his vehicle maintained properly a less expensive way. IDK what triggered the response! And the organization i work for is not heading for any Demise if you think so!

If the whole system is corrupt to such a extent then I believe it's prudent for newer forms of mobility like subscription models for vehicles to become the new norm. No one would want to deal with such corrupt and incompetent companies and their authorized service centers.
>> Not all Authorized outlets are Corrupt!! Everyone has the right to sell!! & Every customer has the right to deny a service!! The Thread is Titled: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons , not The Incentive that SA receive for cheating you.
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Old 14th October 2020, 17:41   #115
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

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Originally Posted by shaheenazk View Post
I do not think that Engine flushing and radiator flushing before oil/coolant change is useless stuff.
Engine flushing used to the standard thing. I guess that oil, and engines, have changed in the years since then.
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Originally Posted by ramnaresh_2000 View Post
Yes you are correct, but they still need distilled water. However, not in just 3 months of purchase. Maybe yearly not 100% sure.
Then what is the difference? We might as well have the maintenence batteries that we can top up ourselves
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Surprising thing is their user manual says 5 litres of coolant is enough. These stealerships charged me 8 litres. It is 275 bucks per litre. Tell me about daytime robbery.
Then... is premixed coolant a scam in itself? The real coolant is just water. The rest is some additives to help to prevent rust and antifreeze for the cold places in the world.

Is it now like paying high prices for bottled drinking water in hotels?
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Old 14th October 2020, 18:36   #116
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

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Originally Posted by shaheenazk View Post
My Indica's manual says coolant change every 20,000 kms or 2 years. Why flushing is necessary can be seen in the following videos:

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=s--5ft5YiHg

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=MCJaTh4N1QQ
Does the manual also say anything about coolant flush?
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Old 14th October 2020, 18:43   #117
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

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Then... is premixed coolant a scam in itself? The real coolant is just water. The rest is some additives to help to prevent rust and antifreeze for the cold places in the world.

Is it now like paying high prices for bottled drinking water in hotels?
Technically, the real coolant "IS" water. But water would freeze at 0 degree Celsius and boil at 100 degree Celsius. The Glycol which is called as "Coolant" helps to increase the boiling point and reduce freezing point. It also has some additives to prevent rust. The terminology used in many countries "Anti Freeze" is more correct than Coolant.

You are supposed to mix coolant with distilled water in ratio specified. In pre mix coolant you don't have to worry about getting distilled water and directly put it in radiator.
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Old 14th October 2020, 19:21   #118
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

Back in the old days of radiator caps before sealed systems, tap water would do. and people would just top up as needed. I don't know when distilled water became necessary, and why?

Those days, for me, were in Britain, and failure to ensure a high enough ratio of antifreeze when winter came could be a literal death sentence to the engine.

I suppose that this probably belongs win a coolant thread, but the point remains: it has become an extra thing that the service centres can sell us.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 14th October 2020 at 19:23.
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Old 14th October 2020, 20:02   #119
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

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Does the manual also say anything about coolant flush?
If it did I would have mentioned it. However, if you watched the videos, you would have known that if not flushed the coolant causes corrosion (because of water present in the mixture) of the engine block as the time progresses leading to costly repairs/replacements. Also notice the color of the dirty coolant in the videos. So better to be safe than sorry.
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Old 14th October 2020, 23:38   #120
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Default Re: Incentives that service advisors receive for upselling you unnecessary add-ons

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I don't know when distilled water became necessary, and why?
The tap water in the U.K. and here may not be comparable. I heard there one can drink tap water. Not possible here. Also the water may be hard and cause deposits.

But I have seen MSM workshop use packaged drinking water and not distilled water for mixing with coolant.

They have never even once suggested engine flush or radiator flush for me in the past eleven years. Not even when I switched to synthetic oil. What they usually suggest are throttle body cleaning, AC vent cleaning, wax polish, brake side slip testing and a few other things!

Last edited by Gansan : 14th October 2020 at 23:44.
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