Team-BHP - Is it the end of the sedan era?

Cross posting this post from another thread plus some additions , hope this is allowed:

Crossovers have more space for luggage? Not true. A proper sedan has a bigger boot than most crossovers. Upwards of 500 L typically. You can split or fold the seats of a sedan also, in certain models (Yaris), whereas many crossovers have less boot space and may depend on this seat folding trick as a purchase decision. In reality i wonder how many people fold their back seats routinely.

Crossovers have more seating space? Not true. Most sedans and crossovers alike seat 2+3. Its the same. Unless we are talking about MPVs or “Mrossover”. MPVs have a 3rd bench where kids can sit comfortably or adults can be given punishment posting Why is the guy on the 3rd row first to get out when the car stops? Because it was on his mind all along

Crossovers have higher sitting position. Well, yes. But the pro’s and con’s of lower sitting position vs higher sitting position may be relative and not absolute. They are just a preference.

Crossovers have higher GC: We have 160-170mm’s running for last 50 years and if it was such a deal breaker, manufacturers would have stopped making sedans or hatchbacks. Look around you. So many hatches and sedans running without a problem. If there is a road, you can drive a sedan on it. We have people here who have taken their sedans to Ladakh and xyz-La’ without a problem. People have driven a sedan from Banglore to Madrid. What about monopoly of Maruti Alto on hills?

If roads are better than what they were 20 years ago, why are sedans going under? I agree with the post that said reasons are more emotional and “perceived rational”.

That tells me, sedans are not low on GC. They have proven and correct and useful GC. (That means if you have a road, you are good with 170mm but if that stone is huge or there is no road, even 180 or 200mm won’t do it unless its a real SUV).

1cm = 10mm :)

Sedans drive and handle better than crossovers. True. Physics there.

Do we really think Creta has more space than a proper sedan? I thought the space was more like a sub 4 meter sedan. It does look big and that does mean a lot to many people.

This is going the way of the petrol vs diesel thread, ignoring the elephant in the room (mileage) that petrol never manages. The crossovers have taken over because they are practical in all areas. The talk about sedans and their dynamics is laughable, a handful of mass market sedans were fun, most were just terrible. Space is also an issue with sedans, rear head space is always compromised, a hatch is a better bet and ride is also better in one. The back seat of any sedan is terrible for long distance travel, unless it's a limo, none of the comfortable ones are affordable to the majority of customers.

The only thing that is surprising about the trend is that it took so long to catch on. I was convinced about the crossover when my uncle had a Sierra(late 90s), high seating, good view out and less stressful night driving as the truck headlights didn't blind you. I don't know why people go on about crossovers not being able to go off road, bad roads don't catch them out, that's a bigger plus than handling. The speed limit in India is around 100 kph at some access limited highways, engineering has advanced enough to make any vehicle ride well and brake at this speed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by apache_aayush (Post 4907943)

Going by the sentiments of eminent members, those buying the Civic, Octavia , 3 Series for the love of driving are naives and they dont know the road conditions in India lol:

Also i wonder how people were driving before 2014 when there were no sub compact Suvs . Never seen corpses of hatch backs and sedans lying because of low GC.

There are multiple answers :
1) Not too many people even owned cars about 10-15 years ago. So those who had cars , coped with the situations. Related to this
2) I think the road conditions in cities were actually better in some cases, I can definitely vouch for Pune. The surfeit of unscientific and arbitrary speed breakers and this weird concretisation frenzy , not to mention the permanent scars due to flyovers and metro, have actually degraded the road quality.
3) Most cities had not expanded beyond the traditional municipal boundaries. Now, most of the metropolitan regions have a lot of new middle/upper middle class buyers who actually stay in suburbs and fringe villages, encountering worse road conditions, which are of course ignored by the municipal body for various political issues. The traditional residents of those fringe areas always had their Mahindras and other MUVs at their disposal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline (Post 4908150)

With due respect sir i have been driving sedans and hatch backs all my life in indore and i dont even remember when was the last time i got stuck anywhere because of low GC. It may be usage specific as you mentioned for some people but the general perception has become that you can only drive peacefully if you own a SUV which is clearly not the case.:)

I was a big fan of Hot hatches and Sedans myself, but understood the relevance and practicality of SUVs years back.

Straightly put, it's like SUVs or the breed of it were literally born for Indian roads which are a mini trial most of the time. Except highways and some city roads, most of the roads remain a mess which is never more true than during the rainy season.

So what do SUVs offer better than Sedans? Sm important thingsq:

1. Much better ride quality than the sedans (except the odd exceptions) which is a boon in our pothole and bump filled roads. They don't bottom out even during some rough rides.

2. Higher Ground Clearance which gives us a stress free ride during rainy season where the drainage and water clogging on our roads is a real issue.

3. SUVs Vis-a-Vis are more spacious than their Sedan counterparts and hereby more comfortable and practical for the occasional travel/getaway.

4. Presence. This is a huge factor for the Indian mindset when someone gets down from an SUV. They have arrived...In the literal sense. It's a physical manifestation of owning a 'Big Car' after having transitioned from the budget hatches.

There cud be odd other advantages too, but the above have firmly swung the odds in favour of the SUV breed for their sheer practicality for our roads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nandadevieast (Post 4907897)

Crossovers have more seating space? Not true. Most sedans and crossovers alike seat 2+3. Its the same. Unless we are talking about MPVs or “Mrossover”. MPVs have a 3rd bench where kids can sit comfortably or adults can be given punishment posting Why is the guy on the 3rd row first to get out when the car stops? Because it was on his mind all along

Crossovers have higher sitting position. Well, yes. But the pro’s and con’s of lower sitting position vs higher sitting position may be relative and not absolute. They are just a preference.

The Thing about space is, that it’s actually confused with the feel of airiness which definitely most crossovers give more than their sedan counterparts.
Also, easier ingress in crossovers over sedan is a big buying point. My father can easily “fit” into a sedan, he actually did in my Vento but, he doesn’t prefer it. There’s a difference in fitting into a car and being comfortable in one. He prefers MUV’s or Big SUV’s. He currently has a 2019 SantaFe (95% chauffeur driven. And had a Toyota Noah prior to this.

The airiness of a crossover’s cabin is ultimately what gets people sold on it. I did not buy a sedan this time for the very same reason because, everything looks cramped unless i go and buy a 5 series or an e class. Just compare the Kia Sonet with Skoda Rapid or Verna. You have space in all cars but, the sonet is more airy to sit in but would be the worst driver of these.

In India, from our available options, pre 25-30 Lakhs, one has to actually choose between space or performance. It’s very rare when you can have both in a single package. clap:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneller (Post 4908271)

The Thing about space is, that it’s actually confused with the feel of airiness which definitely most crossovers give more than their sedan counterparts.

The airiness of a crossover’s cabin is ultimately what gets people sold on it. I did not buy a sedan this time for the very same reason because, everything looks cramped unless i go and buy a 5 series or an e class. Just compare the Kia Sonet with Skoda Rapid or Verna. You have space in all cars but, the sonet is more airy to sit in but would be the worst driver of these.

In India, from our available options, pre 25-30 Lakhs, one has to actually choose between space or performance. It’s very rare when you can have both in a single package. clap:

Very true :thumbs up. There are many Sedans which are much spacious than a Creta/Seltos. But inside and outside, Crossovers 'create' more space!.

Space and performance. Have you heard of the Renault Duster? :)

I have had a Sedan and now moved on to CSUV. So, I have a practical say in this topic.

My experience with Sedan:
I had a Fiat Linea for about 9 years. I upgraded to Linea from a hatchback. It was a huge upgrade in all senses.

Good Part:
The ride quality was phenomenal
Handling was sharp
Very involving drive
Very spacious cabin and boot
Top-end features were awesome (for that time) and a delight to use

Not-so-good Part:
GC was an issue initially (but got it upgraded for a small fortune - it got sorted)
It was a long car - finding parking in a parallel parking situations was tough
Resale Value of Sedan is particularly bad - had to sell for peanuts

About a year ago, moved on to Creta CRDI Automatic.

Reasons to choose a CSUV over a Sedan
Assured Higher GC - bad roads cannot be avoided. Pot holes, unscientific speed brakers can be anywhere
Large wheels are better equipped to handle broken patches
The height gives an impression of a bigger car
Ingress and Egress for elders is better
Parallel Parking is a tad bit easier because of compact dimensions
Sedan choices were limited, even when compared to when I bought Linea 9 years ago (that too automatics were even more limited)
Family had developed a liking for CSUV, (it would make them happy)

My Experience with CSUV
While I miss the phenomenal ride and handling of sedans, I have got few other things that were absent on my Sedan. Was I ready to trade the positives of the sedans for the positives of CSUV? Not at the time I started looking for a change. But somehow I did make a change and now I feel I did the right thing. I drove sedans of friends couple of times after my purchase of Creta - I didn't get the feeling of - oh sh!t. What did I do? There is nothing particularly bad in sedans, but CSUVs offer almost everything that sedan offers and some extra unique positives.

Loss of Sedan is the Gain of CSUV
Coming to market trend - it is very simple. SUVs and CSUVs have improved by leaps and bounds to match the comfort and space of sedans. In 2000s it was impossible to dream of a SUV with Harrier's sophistication. Sedans on the other hand, have nothing earth-shattering different since last decade - they have done minor refinements+loads of electronics. Plus, in less-than-ideal conditions, people want higher GC, shorter length. I'm not a big fan of high seating position - but the market loves it.

Psychologically, when you see a person driving sedan - you feel he is a decent employee, dressed in formal, finishes work and heads home on time. When you see the same person in SUV, you feel he is going to gate crash a party, drink all night and wake up early to head out for an adventure trip with his girlfriend. No wonder, the new gen loves SUV or anything that looks like it.

So SUVs and CSUVs are here to stay and replace sedans and maybe later hatchbacks too. Sedan enthusiasts (like me) are bound to be disappointed by gradual decline of choice in sedans. I think the writing is on the wall. Sedans, your time for retirement is near. Premium and Sport segment brands will continue to make sedans no matter what. But for mass-market brands - it is the age of SUV now.

Without a doubt SUVs/CSUVs are a fad amongst Indians. And why not? I mean, SUVs/CSUVS offer commanding driving position and their ground clearance are best suited for our roads.

I highly doubt the sedans will be extinct anytime soon. Sedan lovers like you and me will keep them alive.

I own Ciaz (2018, diesel). When I was in the market, my first choice were CSUVs too. The factors that made me choose a sedan are:

1. Space
2. Comfort
3. Big-car factor

Now we are again in the market for a car for my dad. We are inclining towards the new City. We took test drive of Seltos, XL6, Creta and Nexon. No offence to all the cars mentioned above but my family has become used to of the comfort of a sedan. The moment they drove the City, they knew where their heart lies. Sedans offer great drive, comfort and superb practicality.

Long live the sedans!

Truly,
A sedan lover!