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Old 19th October 2020, 17:45   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
My October 2017 model Creta Diesel has the ABS unit from Mando. Haven't got a chance to check the new Creta deeply.
Thanks.

Can you share how you figured out the name of the vendor?

That will help some new Creta 2020 model owner here to figure out the ABS vendor of his car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibendum90949 View Post



In fact bhpian a4anurag reached out today morning on this and this is what I could find in the ABS unit of my Seltos, attaching the image below. Old gen Creta ABS was supplied by Georgia based Mando America Corporation as shared by Anurag. I guess he has some findings to add on here.

Attachment 2069755
Thanks for sharing the pic of by the ABS unit of your Seltos.

Anyone here, who can figure out the vendor of this unit from the attached pic?

Three questions worth figuring out

1) Was Mando the vendor of ABS unit of initial batches of Seltos

2) Has the vendor been changed in the recent batches of Seltos

3) Has the vendor been changed in the new Creta 2020

If the vendor has been changed by either or both Seltos and Creta, then it's perhaps a mea culpa from Kia/Hyundai. It likely means that the old ABS unit was unsatisfactory. Old Creta/Seltos owners could then push for a free change of ABS unit from Hyundai/Kia (to a ABS unit sourced from the new vendor).

Mods, sorry for the back to back posts. Please merge them into one.

Last edited by Aditya : 19th October 2020 at 22:27. Reason: Back to back posts merged
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Old 19th October 2020, 18:04   #107
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

One of my close friends worked in Mando’s development centre near Frankfurt, Germany for a couple of years and he swore to me that he would never buy a Hyundai/Kia car because he knew exactly how the electronics and SW are developed and validated. Mando is like a sister company to Hyundai/Kia and supplies most of the mechanical and electronic components to both the OEMs.

Today I read another news related to Hyundai/Kia engine quality issue: Hyundai, Kia flag $2.9B earnings hit from quality costs
Quote:
U.S. safety regulators in 2017 launched an investigation into the recall of nearly 1.7 million vehicles by Hyundai and Kia over an engine defect that increases the risk of a crash. The engines involved were fitted in Hyundai Sonata and Santa Fe vehicles in the U.S., and Kia Optima, Sorento and Sportage models, all of which share the powertrain.

A South Korean whistleblower, who was a former quality official at Hyundai, reported concerns in 2016 to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), which has started probing whether their recalls covered enough vehicles and were conducted in a timely manner.
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Old 19th October 2020, 18:31   #108
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
T

Fact
  • ABS increases stopping distance in surfaces such as sand, uneven surfaces, ice.

Can you backup this with any published paper or article from a reputable journal or auto magazine?

ABS is designed to provide braking in the lowest distance on loose gravely surfaces by avoiding wheel lockup. Your statement completely defeats the purpose of ABS and is contrary to facts
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Old 19th October 2020, 18:46   #109
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbo View Post
I'd rather buy a Mahindra and live with a rattle or two instead of refined car that has ABS that does not brake as a feature.
Mahindra is no different. I own XUV500 W10 AWD ( 2015 ) and had clutch failure twice!
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Old 19th October 2020, 18:47   #110
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssenhyd View Post
Can you backup this with any published paper or article from a reputable journal or auto magazine?

ABS is designed to provide braking in the lowest distance on loose gravely surfaces by avoiding wheel lockup. Your statement completely defeats the purpose of ABS and is contrary to facts
Purpose of ABS is to provide directional control while braking. ABS is will not reduce stopping distance. Infact ABS will increase stopping distance in certain conditions.

Last edited by anb : 19th October 2020 at 19:04.
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Old 19th October 2020, 18:48   #111
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by ssenhyd View Post
Can you backup this with any published paper or article from a reputable journal or auto magazine?

ABS is designed to provide braking in the lowest distance on loose gravely surfaces by avoiding wheel lockup. Your statement completely defeats the purpose of ABS and is contrary to facts
I too thought ABS decreases stopping distance on loose gravel or sand or mud?

Last edited by Nalin1 : 19th October 2020 at 18:49.
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Old 19th October 2020, 18:50   #112
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssenhyd View Post
Can you backup this with any published paper or article from a reputable journal or auto magazine?

ABS is designed to provide braking in the lowest distance on loose gravely surfaces by avoiding wheel lockup. Your statement completely defeats the purpose of ABS and is contrary to facts
ABS is designed to prevent lock up of wheels only in order to let the driver steer in case of obstacles. Period. The friction in sand or gravel is minimum and thus it's super easy to lock the wheels in a non ABS car.

A non ABS car has more advantage in sand or gravel. This is because when the wheels lock up, it digs into the ground and scoops itself sand or gravel in front of the wheels thereby quickly stopping the car.

Last edited by Turbohead : 19th October 2020 at 18:51.
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Old 19th October 2020, 18:51   #113
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssenhyd View Post
Can you backup this with any published paper or article from a reputable journal or auto magazine?

ABS is designed to provide braking in the lowest distance on loose gravely surfaces by avoiding wheel lockup. Your statement completely defeats the purpose of ABS and is contrary to facts
A simple search will get you the details. Also one of the major advantage of ABS is ability to steer- by avoiding wheel lockup.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-lock_braking_system
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Old 19th October 2020, 18:54   #114
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post
...

Fact
  • ABS increases stopping distance in surfaces such as sand, uneven surfaces, ice.
Having said that the fineesse at which ABS can be tuned is a world in itself. ...
ABS does not increase stopping distance under any circumstance. If this happens it is just poor calibration which you have also said indirectly in your post !

The experiences that owners have of ABS kicking in too early on uneven surfaces is down to bad calibration. The off road ABS has to be tuned to allow for more wheel slip before ABS intervenes. This is how one can experience much better braking performance in some other cars.
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Old 19th October 2020, 19:00   #115
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
ABS does not increase stopping distance under any circumstance. If this happens it is just poor calibration which you have also said indirectly in your post !

The experiences that owners have of ABS kicking in too early on uneven surfaces is down to bad calibration. The off road ABS has to be tuned to allow for more wheel slip before ABS intervenes. This is how one can experience much better braking performance in some other cars.
No, Purpose of ABS is to provide directional control and ABS do increase the stopping distances in some situations. I have been working as an Asst. Professor in Mechanical Engineering in a govt college and teaching working of ABS to students' for the last 5 years.
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Old 19th October 2020, 19:04   #116
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssenhyd View Post
ABS is designed to provide braking in the lowest distance on loose gravely surfaces by avoiding wheel lockup. Your statement completely defeats the purpose of ABS and is contrary to facts
You are probably referring to EBD(Electronic Brakeforce Distribution) which works with rest of the electronic data from car (like traction level for each wheel) to provide the necessary brake force in each wheel.

ABS is designed to offer direction control while braking by preventing wheel lock up.
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Old 19th October 2020, 19:37   #117
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by anb View Post
No, Purpose of ABS is to provide directional control and ABS do increase the stopping distances in some situations. I have been working as an Asst. Professor in Mechanical Engineering in a govt college and teaching working of ABS to students' for the last 5 years.

I'd still disagree with you since my line of work allows me to experience the actual application of ABS & ESP systems where we test under all situations including the frozen lakes in Sweden !

ABS if calibrated properly will reduce braking distance under all situations.

This video shows examples of braking distances with and without ABS under different conditions.

Having said this, the issue with the Creta & Seltos brakes failing / pedal hard issue to me looks like a Booster problem where there is insufficient vacuum in the system.
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Old 19th October 2020, 20:08   #118
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

I used to face this exact issue on my 2014 i20 diesel and was also one of the reasons I sold it off as soon as I found another car I could live with. There is some serious problem with the Brake/ABS system in all Hyundai cars and they refuse to acknowledge it. This used to happen intermittently but I mostly used to face it if the car is coasting at a higher than required gear and then press the clutch and start braking. I used to counter this by immediately shifting to a lower gear and then press hard on the wooden brakes (the feeling was very similar to that of ABS kicking in). Wasn't the most pleasant solution with the car jerking all around but at least I avoided the accidents. Hope this helps others facing similar issues.

Last edited by tweaker : 19th October 2020 at 20:09. Reason: Removed word redundancy
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Old 19th October 2020, 20:18   #119
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

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Originally Posted by Stribog View Post
The Seltos has sold upwards of 100,000 Seltos' so far in India and if the alarmist feedback from this thread is to be extrapolated there should have been at least 100 serious accidents involving these cars assuming it is a 1% failure rate and still we don't have anything even remotely close to this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhdowntheline View Post
Well stated Sir. This is exactly what I had meant when I said earlier that we should not get to the point of rooting for underdogs and vilifying winners.
To be honest, people like me who don't own a Creta/Seltos have no business loitering in this thread. Had it been trivial quality issues like paint peeling, A/C controls, power window issues, water leaking, sunroof disfunctional etc. I wouldn't have typed this post.

But, many of us here in this forum would have recommended these vehicles to someone close in the past over its competitors with the assumption that people couldn't go wrong with so many vehicles on the road. And even if there is any wrong, the manufacturer will bear the responsibility of fixing the issue that could pertain to any of the lakhs of them on the road.

If the company resolves the issue or suggests a work around, then we can do our part by making the respective owners or prospective owners aware of it. And thanks to Bibendum90949 for bringing this up.

This thread has nothing to do with rooting for the underdogs or calling for nationalism. All this thread does is just 'Call a Spade a Spade'. So, the next time this feedback would be passed over to the prospective owners, who would eventually take the call.

Last edited by jetsetgo08 : 19th October 2020 at 20:20.
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Old 19th October 2020, 20:18   #120
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Default Re: Brake failure issues in the Kia Seltos

Quote:
Originally Posted by fiat_tarun View Post
ABS does not increase stopping distance under any circumstance.
ABS increases stopping distance under most circumstances.
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