[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by vipul_singh

This is not to defend Honda, but just to say that we, as buyers, should be able to judge based on the nature of issues with a given car / brand.

This!

Unfortunately, as long as buyers prioritise visible bling features over invisible features, this trend will continue.

Just have a look at the Honda thread which you quoted. Not a single post about brakes failing, engines seriously malfunctioning, steering freewheeling, etc. Rather, it has turned into a Honda bashing thread about the interior quality & dealership experiences, which has nothing to do with the brand reliability.

The quoted post below perfectly sums it up!

Originally Posted by rags.singh

That extra metal which some OEMs put in their cars which gives the feeling of a solid built car - comes at a cost. So if you want to keep the price point attractive, you add bling to hide the cost cutting that you have done in the build quality.

Buyers compare the "features" of a car vis a vis the cost and come to a conclusion that so and so car is more bang for the buck while the other car doesn't even have ventilated seats for something that costs 20 big ones! What about the most basic features - build quality and safety?

Well said! As long as buyers continue to choose visible features & believe marketing promises, we are going to continue to see this trend.

They rather feel good about the latest features, perceived quality of the interiors & the way the doors shut. Who cares if the manufacturer cannot even engineer something as basic as the brakes right?

When will the market mature and realise that reliability, and more specifically, solid engineering is the BEST feature a car can possibly have?!

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Off topic but Toyota has serious issues with safety systems too.

This Hyundai/Kia issue is even worse.

In my opinion, I don’t think the issues are comparable. At the risk of derailing this thread, let me elaborate -

As has been well explained by the experts in that thread, airbags are SUPPLEMENTARY restraint systems. They are not the primary method of saving lives in a crash. That’s the job of the stable structure & seatbelts.

Besides, the airbags will not deploy under a whole myriad number of reasons, with the bottom line being - they will not deploy if the G forces are below the threshold for airbag deployment, as unintentional airbag deployment can cause serious injury or death.

Sure, if the threshold is met for deployment YET the airbags don’t deploy, then that needs to be backed up by scientific data & Toyota needs to answer some tough questions. Till then, from my personal experience with Toyota vehicles, I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

Coming back to this thread, this is a potentially fatal malfunction which is affecting thousands of vehicles on the roads & OTHER ROAD USERS TOO!

[dhanushs]

Sounds like a vacuum issue to me. Surprised there is vacuum issue when the car is not even stalling. Agree it’s a safety issue, but I’m sure this is something the company can easily fix.

Also - reading all the complaints, I’m sure there is still braking, just no assist. So you have to press the pedal a lot harder. Like when you brake with the car engine not running.

Also - Off-Topic. Braking in the highest gear isn’t happening guys, in any car. One should always try and downshift and use engine braking along with the pedal, except may be its for just slightly slowing down.

[Carma2017]

Oh my god, I have faced this issue in i10 grand as well but ignored it as my driving folly. I am a great fan of Hyundai build quality and general robustness. But this is disconcerting. I will have to check more thoroughly during my trip back to India. Just a query though, is this problem more in the diesel version or gasoline version or both?

[Sebring]

My friend faced this issue in previous gen Creta. At the Hyundai workshop, it would be normal. So after multiple complaints they changed the cylinder but the problem persisted. The dealership refused to help him thereon. He was really scared for his family whenever they went for a drive, and kept the speed to under 50 Kmph. One day someone told him to file a case in consumer court, but the issue could not be proven. So he sold the car and bought a Hexa. This thread tells me that Seltos has the same pedigree, and an inherited issue

[Turbohead]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

Update : The issue of brake pedal getting hard and brake failure has resurfaced in this car couple of days back even after changing brake booster. As updated by the owner, he has figured out that when the brake pedal goes hard with no braking action, pressing the clutch pedal immediately down makes the brakes to come back to normal. Owners who have manual Seltos can keep this in mind for a quick recovery in case one is faced with this.

I saw a lot of comments on vacuum issue but how does it get fixed when you hit the clutch? As far as I know, if you hit the clutch, the engine goes to idle RPM. Does this actually improve vacuum in the brake booster?

Does this occur for both petrol and diesel vehicles?

[andafunda]

Why am I not surprised that the issue is far more widespread than is reported on. Hyundai group like other Korean chaebols are masters at managing public perception through media (Samsung's Note 7 fiasco, LG's 5 generations of bootlooping phones, all forgotten). A simple example - open up YouTube and check out the reviews of GaganC (and Arun Panwar, Fasbeam etc etc).

1. In every single Hyundai / Kia competitor comparison, they keep bringing up stuff like lack of ventilated seats and wireless charging. Without fail. Hyundai is praised for including these features even though no one questions that phones don't fit in that tiny wireless charging slot, charging is woefully slow, and batteries get damaged from low quality wireless charging; or the fact that better seat ergonomics >> ventilation.

2. Most competitor safety rating which is often 4+ is mentioned in passing, while global Hyundai model 3/4 rating (complete different vehicle) is amplified and safety aspects are brought out. Watch most vloggers ignore Nexon while praise Venue for safety in the same comparion video! A channel called Carbound India actually released a rant video on one such comparison. Link:

https://youtu.be/ZwsJ-vrXOT8

3. Even small build issues with competitor cars are called out in incredible detail, but are mentioned as acceptable when it comes to Hyundai/Kia cars. Watch Gagan's reviews of the Harrier and Seltos. After watching these videos, it seems like Harrier was built by a bunch of drunk Premier Padmini D-listers while the Founder of Hyundai chiseled Seltos with his own hands.

4. Low quality hard plastics in Hyundai cars are almost never highlighted, but even one piece of hard plastic in a competitor car merits a 2 minute discussion on build quality.

5. Ofcourse reliability and safety of Hyundai group cars are never questioned. No mention of the overheating issues with Venue DCT, or fogging issues in most cars or braking issues with the Creta. Not a squeak about service experience.

I understand that everyone has to make a living and some companies "incentivize" more than others, but these vloggers influence common folks who then go to a Honda showroom, see that one flexing piece of plastic on the side panel of a WRV, or that they can't do 0-100 in 2 seconds on CVT, and think that the WRV sucks, while completely ignoring the reliable power train and other critical components.

[Cessna182]

Is it possible to lodge a PIL against Hyundai and Kia for this model and the creta? Even the hardening of brakes poses a very serious threat to other road users. If there are lawyers on this forum, would be grateful for an opinion.

[shaleenvashisht]

Originally Posted by Ps_o

OMG!! I have been on the lookout for a personal vehicle and had taken short testdrive for KIA SELTOS, have read the initial review and hype/blings on offer. It seemed all great and seemed like a good deal.
During test drive , the same issue happened with the car. My heart sank and mind went blank (Disclaimer - I am a new driver and have driven cars sedatively and with caution). Somehow managed to stop the car, used handbrake before hitting anyone (trust me, i would have been viral on social media and newspaper for killing/injuring someone)

I just posted similar on other thread. While doing test drive of Seltos, i had to do Panic breaking due to a truck coming wrong way. The car, to my surprise skidded for around 20 meters before coming to halt. Agreed, the road had gravels and was broken- but mind you- i have never experienced anything like that in my Maruti Ritz or even Honda City. I totally lost the confidence of driving the vehicle- Actually, it was an auspicious day and wanted to book Seltos the same day- but then i remembered my priorities ( brakes is the foremost ) and i cancelled plan for Seltos. Went to Honda Showroom, got a good deal on City CVT.

Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze

This!

Unfortunately, as long as buyers prioritise visible bling features over invisible features, this trend will continue.

Just have a look at the Honda thread which you quoted. Not a single post about brakes failing, engines seriously malfunctioning, steering freewheeling, etc. Rather, it has turned into a Honda bashing thread about the interior quality & dealership experiences, which has nothing to do with the brand reliability.

The quoted post below perfectly sums it up!

Absolutely!! Amazing post!

I strongly feel that Brakes are the most important feature of a car. More than an engine, more than any other thing. If a manufacturer cant guarantee predictable, reliable braking for the vehicle- its high time to show them doors.

What will you do with remote engine start, Bose speakers, panoramic sunroof, all those gimmicks- when the brakes are screwed up ?

[vrprabhu]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

... Surprised there is vacuum issue when the car is not even stalling....

Exactly - hard brake pedal experience(d) (once by me) because engine had died (faulty battery). Can't think of vacuum failure, unless the booster itself is faulty.


In my case, car didn't stall / halt (the brakes weren't working), as I also follow this method (apart from this drawback using this method, the other drawbacks I feel are that it increases the braking distances and requires accurate steering control) -

Originally Posted by --gKrish--

.....While braking to a stop:
if rpm < 1500 : Clutch first then brake( or downshift then brake).
if rpm >1500 : Apply brakes as in a normal car and fully depress the clutch pedal when engine rpm drops to ~ 1300rpm.

Glad to find that what I practise is not abnormal!

Originally Posted by Turbohead

I saw a lot of comments on vacuum issue but how does it get fixed when you hit the clutch? As far as I know, if you hit the clutch, the engine goes to idle RPM. Does this actually improve vacuum in the brake booster?

Exactly same question on my mind. Especially when clutch and brake systems may have separate circuits....

Too much reliance on electronics - when all possible situations / outcomes cannot be predicted and programmed in the ECU, isn't something I am comfortable with.

[greendream]

Originally Posted by Ps_o

OMG!! Thank you for this thread.

This wasn't bad enough, SA starts blasting me, saying I am careless and an idiot for not knowning how to drive.I tried to explain him humbly what i felt with the brakes and how I had managed to come out of this situation. I was soaked with sweat all over hands and forehead.
For them they were clear their products go through test and are better than INDIAN manufacturers, they are not like our regular TATA and Mahindra (where did TATA and mahindra came to conversation I will never know). Made me believe it was indeed ME who did everything wrong.

Why on earth did you keep quiet, when you were called an idiot for no mistake of yours. You are the reason they get their salaries.

Why did you request for their COMPASSION, when you are not at fault?

What offensive things did the manager say?

I have had pleasant experiences at Kia dealerships. If your post is true, the complete truth must be out.
So give out the details as I asked for. If they did behave as you said, Kia and the buying public need to know about the dealer.
SA humiliating a customer is unheard of especially as there was no damage to anyone. So I have my reservations about what you say.
The dealer or Kia doesn’t deserve unfair criticism and, at the same time any customer deserves unconditional respect. So please provide the details as I asked for.

[fhdowntheline]

I am worried this would turn out into a situation where one is rooting for underdogs and vilifying winners.

Lets us not lose objectivity here. I have watched the reviews of some of these auto-Vloggers. I remember in the Gagan C. review of Seltos and Creta, he has pointed out some build quality observations/ issues with both the cars, as much as he has for the Harrier, where some of the issues were pretty obvious visually speaking.
He has also driven the Jeep Compass in a pretty vigorous manner on a dirt road, bringing out its ride/handling capabilities. I didn't see any negative comparison with a Seltos/Creta/Tucson there (obviously cannot be).

Fasbeam has praised the Harrier 2020 to high heaven, in fact even suggesting that those who are confused between the Seltos/Creta can go for it.

I think some of these folks do a decent and balanced job, but that apart, Hyundai was an established brand even before social media or influencers came to being. Also, sentiment manipulation is an open game, anyone can play it. Some people may be influenced by that silly stunt of of the airborne Harrier, and choose it over the Seltos/Creta, no matter how dangerous it actually is.

[jetsetgo08]

Based on the discussion here, is it safe to conclude that anyone having a habit of pressing the clutch while braking may never see this issue? And how are the AT's fairing in this regard?

On the other hand, it is rather difficult to experience these issues in a single or a short test drive. It is admirable that a few members had experienced it all in their first drive.

Personally, I would be better off in an unreliable car that fails to start (due to poor electronics) than a reliable car that fails to stop.

[Turbanator]

I don't think the purpose of this thread to find out what's good or bad with other manufacturers or why does KIA/ Hyundai get away with such lapses. Let's keep the discussions focused on the issue for the benefits of existing and potential owners. There are multiple threads for other discussions or one can start a new.

KIA is selling thousands of these cars here every month and even more worldwide, so there has to be something specific to a certain batch or a design which affects in a particular way. Am sure, there will be a reason and manufacturer should find out soon.
If its happening on large number than they must enforce a stop sale irrespective of commercial repercussions.

[knrn]

And for exactly this reason I would buy a Maruti or better a Mahindra or Tata, enjoy the rattles or niggles but at least have the peace of mind that when I need to stop or go on a 1000 km trip, the mechanicals won't fail me.

All the goodies and features become useless after a certain while. For example, I don't remember when I last changed the temperature setting on the ac in my car. Eventually everyone stops using cruise control or auto vipers/ headlights after some time. It is the mechanical bits that make a car last long. And mechanical reliability plus safety should be the prime concern in every vehicle purchase.

[CaptainBrijesh]

Hello Guys,

Can we say that all these cars which have faced issue of Hard Brake Pedal are having Petrol Engine with Automatic Transmission?

Because as far as i could remember, in Creta also Manual Transmission was not plagued by these brake failures.

If yes then i may try to explain the cause of the problem.

Thanks.