[NPX]

Almost finalized Seltos, but again a new safety issue.

Now the real problem is what to buy ?
I'm not inclined towards C-SUVs and XUV500 & Harrier are damn expensive. Nissan & Renault only have petrols.

Disappointed with Homegrowns as they have no answer to Creta & Seltos.

Even Maruti is allowing Hyundai and Kia to sell unstable shells which is their forte in the first place.

[shancz]

Recently I had a friend who booked a XUV 300 W8 petrol after moving away from Seltos. I had forwarded this thread and refused to recommend the Seltos owing to safety issues and more importantly the company's refusal to accept it. He enjoyed the XUV's turbo petrol but his family was more inclined towards the Seltos owing to "better looks, bigger car and bigger boot" but the arrogance of the Kia dealer and his refusal to sell the car without the extended warranty tilted the balance in XUV's favour whose dealer's behaviour was opposite to Kia's.
This mind numbing sales for a new manufacturer seems to have gotten into a few(I hope) dealer's heads and I expect the A.S.S. to be worse as sales will always overshadow service.

I share the same feeling as NPX, while researching for alternatives to Seltos/Creta the XUV 300 W8(O) petrol is about 12.5 lacs on road which is similar to Seltos HTK+ 1.5 NA petrol. A bit more and there is the Creta as well. Sadly there is no credible competition until we hit the 18 lacs on road mark and a higher segment (read Harrier and the likes).

The basic requirement according to me is this :
A SUV/Crossover which can seat 5 adults with ease and contain enough bootspace to hold their luggage for a long trip along with being a daily driver.
Goes without saying that related engine, chassis, suspension setup to support the purpose along with modern day creature comforts available with the variants.
The prospective buyer will most likely be upgrading from a hatchback and hence the price needs to be above a hatchback and lower than a proper SUV (read Harrier and the likes).
So 10-14 lakhs on road seems apt(for petrol).

I think Mahindra should launch the "XUV 400" (essentially the Ssangyong Tivoli minus the boot slicing). That would take down the biggest issue of small boot space.
But the answer should also have a more "modern" exterior and interior and there I think Tata can really shine here given their current cars.
Maruti doesn't seem to be interested in this segment at all for some reason.
The Mahindra Ford alliance could also provide promising options but that is 1-2 years away I guess.

[SaiSW]

Originally Posted by NPX

Almost finalized Seltos, but again a new safety issue.
Now the real problem is what to buy ?

May I suggest waiting out the rest of this year, if the purchase isn't urgent? Tata is cooking something ( and so is Jeep ) and we might get more details of it in the coming days. I feel you might regret it later on if you make the jump now for the Seltos.
https://www.indiacarnews.com/news/ep...suv-mpv-42864/

[gopi_rm]

Originally Posted by SaiSW

May I suggest waiting out the rest of this year, if the purchase isn't urgent? Tata is cooking something ( and so is Jeep ) and we might get more details of it in the coming days. I feel you might regret it later on if you make the jump now for the Seltos.
https://www.indiacarnews.com/news/ep...suv-mpv-42864/

You can also add VW Taigun and Skoda Vision IN to the 2021 waiting list.

[Gallardo_17]

Originally Posted by NPX

Almost finalized Seltos, but again a new safety issue.

Now the real problem is what to buy ?
I'm not inclined towards C-SUVs and XUV500 & Harrier are damn expensive. Nissan & Renault only have petrols.

I'm in the same boat as you. I'm eagerly waiting for the Tata blackbird but if Tata doesn't launch it by Feb 2020, I would have to go ahead with the Seltos HTX .

[shancz]

Originally Posted by chiefpk

And then you explain it saying that the ways we brake is not correct. Before braking you need to look at the rpm and speedometer for God's sake just to stop a vehicle. Brakes in a vehicle are meant to stop it whatsoever be the condition whether it is a pottholed road or a metalled highway. Ofcourse there are other things that can be improved while braking but that doesn't mean it won't just work out.

Completely agree with you, just finished reading through this thread and amid all the technical stuff and considerations for the manufacturer the bottom-line is that when a driver presses the brake pedal the vehicle should stop and we cannot have brakes not working in 2020 regardless of the manufacturer. Like chiefpk rightly said this is not done Kia.

Originally Posted by chiefpk

It makes my blood boil that there is literally no response from a manufacturer this big and people still out there on streets. Heck even big auto mags who consider themselves to be experts are silent whether it be this issue or regarding saftey ratings of the Hyundai Kia cousins. Imagine what would have happened had this problem be faced by Tata/Mahindra customers. There would have been an All India Boycott programme till the authorities kick in. We must raise our voice against such issues to a bigger level until there is a proper solution, and we here at Team-BHP are very well capable of doing that.

Sad but true, no response from the manufacturer is troubling. If the issue was acknowledged, thoroughly investigated and updated to the customer at least, imagine the brand loyalty it would have created(we are very good at that, look at Maruti and even Hyundai). I am guessing that this has been hushed up to keep the sales flowing but the damage it has done done to the brand's image is deep. Might not be a lot in numbers but these things do add up in the long run.
Just to compare VW had to shell out close to 12billion USD in fines and damages along with stock prices crashing and most importantly erosion of trust with the customer. All this for essentially lying about emissions, imagine this issue happening in the US.

While the issue still remains unsolved just some concrete and positive communication from Kia would've done wonders to at least their paying customers if not potential ones. Hope it gets solved soon.

Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze

Very soon, potential & current owners of Hyundai/Kia products will need to undergo the automobile equivalent of an aircraft Type Rating to learn the various techniques, nuances & failure modes (brakes, steering, engine, transmission, etc) to safely operate their products. The Hyundai group should develop a full motion driving simulator so that they can demonstrate to us, mere mortals, how one needs to go about controlling their state of the art vehicles, during emergencies such as brakes malfunctioning, steering freewheeling, transmissions overheating, engines ejecting critical parts, etc.

They should create a complete syllabus (classroom + CBT + theory exam + full motion simulator) covering all their unique scenarios so that owners can learn how to drive their vehicles safely. Only Hyundai/Kia type rated individuals should be allowed to sit behind the wheel & operate the vehicles.

Thanks ChoosetoCruze in an otherwise dark thread that was witty and hilarious. Imagine the number of "non-normal checklists" they'll have and the size of their QRH
Would love to see their "test drivers" respond to such situations in real world times, can't help but get reminded of the investigation about response times in the movie Sully.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

On the second aspect; obviously the root cause must be found. The most obvious culprit is likely to be the vacuum somehow. But then again, why would the vacuum be a problem. Again, if the engine (petrol) does not produce enough vacuum with the engine idling, or any RPM for that matter, I think that is an incorrect design.

I can think of some scenario where this could happen due to some very rare failures of other components perhaps? It will be interesting to see if the manufacturer/dealer comes with any sort of response.

I am not that well versed with mechanicals and might be wrong here but came across some info which could be related and explain this issue. I stumbled upon some links(If it was in this thread, I apologize for not quoting the member, please let me know) which led me to this https://www.motorsafety.org/hyundai-...oster-issue-2/.
Its not the same vehicle or the same car manufacturer(technically) but the similarities to this issue can't be ignored.
It involves a manufacturing defect in Mando America's brake booster fitted in Hyundai Elantras (33803 in number), manufactured in the years 2016-17 and the defect is stated as :
"Brake boosters in these affected vehicles are possibly subject to a manufacturing error, leaving them prone to failure. The Part 573 Safety Recall Report said that the boosters could lose power after the diaphragm within them comes loose."

An excerpt from the related NHTSA report : "An investigation was initiated and four claims were identified with customer statements of high brake pedal effort."
Do read the report for details, the notes are eerily similar to the ones being discussed here : https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/201...7V063-8851.PDF
Also worth noting is that four claims led to this issue being identified and issue a recall of 33803 vehicles. I really look forward to the day when we have such customer protections in India.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

If the booster fails the pedal force required becomes much more. The biggest problem I see that the difference between normal and failed condition is way too much. The same is true for power steering. Try and steering a car without power steering is really difficult (e.g. when being towed).

Completely agree, I was surprised by the force it took to stop a Wagon R 2017(non ABS) from rolling back in the garage with the engine switched off(was stupid enough to test brake lights without the parking brake). Just for the purpose of learning here is a video of a power steering failure during a moose test. For now, let's keep aside the fact that the car happens to be a Hyundai i30, the video is in Swedish but the footage, reactions and expressions are important :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrPx...FFuc3b73gCoAEC

The points to be noted are :
1. How the car behaves when the power steering fails (the initial clip where it just continues straight instead of turning)
2. The surprise or rather shock experienced by the driver when it happens(in cabin footage along with the part where the driver is explaining the incident).
3. The effort required by the driver to turn the steering wheel at 0:29 in the video.

This happened to a seasoned team when they were doing the moose test, on purpose and are accustomed to a vehicle not performing as expected. Even then this came as a shock as a power steering failure isn't a normal/expected issue and the force required after that was overwhelming(in that short time span) to make the turn.
Imagining a similar situation in real world with an average driver, related to critical systems(brakes/steering/engine). It sends chills down the spine and this has actually happened to some of us is frightening.

Kia(any manufacturer) should pull up its socks and not just fix it but also communicate actively about it.
Its not just about staying safe but also feeling safe.

[AmitRavi07]

Originally Posted by NPX

Now the real problem is what to buy ?
Disappointed with Homegrowns as they have no answer to Creta & Seltos.

Did you give xuv300 a try. Trust me the cabin is as big as Seltos. I felt it to be better than Seltos and real well put together. Check it out for once yourself if smaller boot is not an issue.

[NPX]

Originally Posted by AmitRavi07

Did you give xuv300 a try. Trust me the cabin is as big as Seltos. I felt it to be better than Seltos and real well put together. Check it out for once yourself if smaller boot is not an issue.

Yes, I tried it & loved the brakes, the power, the stability etc.

But 4 meters are not for me.

[FettyG]

Originally Posted by NPX

Yes, I tried it & loved the brakes, the power, the stability etc.

But 4 meters are not for me.

The car is brilliant if you want a people mover. So much leg room and the engine is great. But, the boot space is ridiculous - even for a sub-4 vehicle. But they were clearly aiming to increase legroom, so they achieved it.

[DeathPig]

Hello.

Sorry to jump in like this, but I just read this post and have a cold sweat. I've put in a booking for a Manual Petrol Kia Sonet and this is making me deeply rethink if I should just go for something else, the 25,000 be damned if they refuse to return it.

What do you guys advice?

[AmitRavi07]

Originally Posted by DeathPig

Hello.

Sorry to jump in like this, but I just read this post and have a cold sweat. I've put in a booking for a Manual Petrol Kia Sonet and this is making me deeply rethink if I should just go for something else, the 25,000 be damned if they refuse to return it.

What do you guys advice?

I would say, test driver other vehicles as well in this segment, esp. Nexon, xuv300, Duster, Kicks, etc.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by DeathPig

Hello.

Sorry to jump in like this, but I just read this post and have a cold sweat. I've put in a booking for a Manual Petrol Kia Sonet and this is making me deeply rethink if I should just go for something else, the 25,000 be damned if they refuse to return it.

What do you guys advice?

This issue hasn't been reported on the Sonet yet. Making an assumption that they both share the same braking system would be incorrect without knowing the facts, which I don't know.

Also, you would've opted for the Sonet over others due to some reason(s), so I guess those would still be valid.
What I would recommend is to go through our ownership and review threads, and if if feels like re-evaluate your choices, preferably over a cup of tea/coffee

But in the end it's always your call.

I don't have experience in cancelling bookings but I don't think you should lose any money, especially when the car has a waiting period.

Sorry, if it wasn't much help.

[DeathPig]

Thank you for the reply, Amit and shanc (I believe I'm not tagging you guys properly, apologies). As logic slowly raised its head I thought on what to do, and you're right shanc.

I got in touch with my Sales Rep, and through him the Delivery Manager and the Service Manager for Chennai, and asked them about this. The Sales Rep was clueless, but seeing as how he had to refer to the brochure to answer questions about the features listed, I was not surprised.

However, the Service Manager said this was a problem with only Seltos after a brief pause. I'm not convinced, and will be going down to the Service Center myself this weekend. I've arranged it with the Service Manager, though he seemed reluctant to allow me until I told him my booking and my father-in-law's booking of a Venue at their own Hyundai concern hangs in the balance.

I'll report more here after that, hopefully for the benefit for everyone.

[Nalin1]

Originally Posted by DeathPig

Sorry to jump in like this, but I just read this post and have a cold sweat. I've put in a booking for a Manual Petrol Kia Sonet and this is making me deeply rethink if I should just go for something else, the 25,000 be damned if they refuse to return it.

What do you guys advice?

Firstly advance congratulations!.

Pick any car of your choice and fill in the blank-

Issues with ______ and search. You will never buy a car in your life. Only issues get reported, my friend. That is for obvious reasons as the affected buyer is looking for a solution/letting out his frustration/venting it out/wants to shame the manufacturer/wants to warn others.

For every car with an issue, you will find 100/1000 without one. The ones who are happy have to be hard core enthusiasts to pen down their experiences. A vast majority who are general car users, look at this way-

It is doing what it is supposed to be doing as expected. Just like their TV, washing machine, refrigerator or microwave .

[shancz]

Originally Posted by NPX

Yes, I tried it & loved the brakes, the power, the stability etc.

But 4 meters are not for me.

Originally Posted by AmitRavi07

Did you give xuv300 a try. Trust me the cabin is as big as Seltos. I felt it to be better than Seltos and real well put together. Check it out for once yourself if smaller boot is not an issue.

At the risk of sounding weird, can I also suggest a look at the the S-Cross ?
It's one of the better built Marutis. I haven't driven one but have heard good things about it. Good seat and boot space, 180mm GC, 4.3m in length, pricing is ok. If you like the looks, engine and features then worth a consideration and a TD.
If you do take a TD/have already driven it, would love to know your experience compared to the XUV300 Petrol.

DeathPig you just need to use multi-quote feature as explained here (How to MULTI-QUOTE (when replying to a thread) on Team-BHP).
Hope you finally get the car you are happy with.

Good Luck