[theAutomaniac]

A new article by Rushlane says that the Kia Sonet which is soon going to be launched in Indonesia, is 125mm longer than the India spec model!

Link

Pic below-


Unlike the Global Hyundai Venue and Global Kia Seltos which are 45mm(US) and 30mm(China), 55mm(Australia), the Kia Sonet takes the length difference at 125mm!

Again the question arises is that when all the countries get the same length for Volkswagens, Suzukis, Škodas, Hondas and even Toyotas, why does Hyundai do this?? And why does India always get the smallest ones?

This is surely something suspicious!

Hyundai doing malpractices related to safety? Most probably, because they have even stopped quoting the weight of their cars in India!

Another reason to suspect this is the fact that the Kia Seltos gets longer in China which has strictier crash test norms than India and it gets even longer in Australia, where the crash test norms are even stricter!

[Sreesh1009]

I think the cars here are shorter due to the tax norms. If I'm not wrong, i had read on the forum that the companies try to keep their cars under 4 metres to avoid paying extra tax.

This could be one of the reasons.

[CEF_Beasts]

Well in case of the Sonet and Venue the bumpers are slightly modified for India to fit under 4M. With the Sonet and Venue there is no problem, it is the Seltos that has major differences.

Some things I found about the Sonet going to be launched in Indonesia and Middle East

Middle East brochure translated to English.


The white cars are the one spotted in Indonesia











Last two pictures are from the Indian Sonet and it is visible that the Indian cars get a more tucked in bumper.





Even the Mahindra XUV300 has a chopped rear to fit under 4M, the international EcoSport is also slightly more than 4M. I don’t see any problem with the Sonet and Venue. Recently I saw a crashed Sonet on social media and it had rolled multiple times according to the people present nearby, it was the 2 airbag version and everyone came out scratch less from the car, the A pillar was intact.

[VRJ]

Originally Posted by theAutomaniac

Kia Sonet takes the length difference at 125mm!

Hyundai doing malpractices related to safety? Most probably, because they have even stopped quoting the weight of their cars in India!

Another reason to suspect this is the fact that the Kia Seltos gets longer in China which has strictier crash test norms than India and it gets even longer in Australia, where the crash test norms are even stricter!

Well, in India we have an illogical rule of a car attracting less tax if it’s length is below 4m. I believe the governments aim was to reduce congestion on the road and public places by having smaller cars. In theory, it makes sense. But in real life, it’s non-sense. Just like demonetisation. The rule should be extended to at least 4.2m. With the current rule, the government is forcing us to buy a Seltos, when all we need is a Sonet in the city. This is one of the reason why VW never got the new gen Polo as it’s length is around 4.2m (also MQB is expensive to build here). The Venue and Sonet are 3995m in length. Any extension will result in higher taxes. So, it’ll never happen in India.

Coming to the Seltos being longer is news to me. I’m not sure how length of a car is related to the safety. Maybe increase in the length of the crumple zone? I don’t know. But, I blame the Indian government for this and appreciate the Australian government for taking the safety of their citizens seriously. I’m not blaming Kia or any other automotive company in India. They’re here to do business. They don’t care about you and me. At the end of the day, all they care is their bottom line, their fat bonus cheques and pleasing their shareholders. I believe the Indian government is coming out with crash test regulations soon. Not sure how it compares to the international ones. Hopefully, it is strict and unbiased. What if the Indian government hands out a 5-star safety rating for the current Maruti Swift.

What pisses me off to the core is when a company manufactures two types of the same car. One safe one for export purposes and one not-so-safe one for India. Again I blame the government and not the company. It’s just business. A rupee saved is a rupee earnt.

Suzuki anyway has admitted publicly that safer cars cost much more to build. Indians won’t pay the price for a safer cars. Not sure how our Tata and M&M could give us 5-star rated cars at competitive prices when MS claims it’s not possible.

To be honest, what surprised me the most is Hyundai and Kia. Hyundai has literally changed the 7L-20L segment in India. They’re at the forefront to bring in luxury segment features to mass market cars. Thankful to them. They forced everyone to up their game. However, what about safety? Why don’t they send cars to NCAP like how Tata and M&M did? Why aren’t they confident in their own products? If you can recall, Hyundai/Kia have this common line when launching a new car. Every time they say they used a stronger grade steel this time. It’s X% stiffer and stronger. It’s much more safer blah blah blah. Then send it for crash testing and give us the result. It’s like someone flexing that they’ve been studying day and night. Yeah, no one cares until you write an exam and prove yourself with your marks. Hyundai/Kia sending their cars and getting 5-stars would only make them a stronger brand and improve sales. If they aren’t, then they know their cars would not get 5-stars. I can’t think of any other reason.

Cheers!

[lurker]

basically India is lagging behind even erstwhile third world countries like Indonesia, what to say of Europe and US. Why does our govt shortchange us like this ?? As it is they make all their taxes from petrol and diesel, atleast give the people safer cars with proper bumpers so that they can continue to pay these taxes tomorrow as well that will fill the belly of the Indian govt.

[BZ25]

Originally Posted by theAutomaniac

A new article by Rushlane says that the Kia Sonet which is soon going to be launched in Indonesia, is 125mm longer than the India spec model!

The Sonet's bumper has been shortened to meet the sub 4 meter norms. Other rivals in it's segment, the Ford Ecosport & Mahindra XUV300, also have seen a reduction in length for the Indian market.

Hyundai doing malpractices related to safety?

Better not to make any assumptions until their range is tested. Although the Santro did score 2 stars in the GNCAP.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by lurker

basically India is lagging behind even erstwhile third world countries like Indonesia, what to say of Europe and US. Why does our govt shortchange us like this ?? As it is they make all their taxes from petrol and diesel, atleast give the people safer cars with proper bumpers so that they can continue to pay these taxes tomorrow as well that will fill the belly of the Indian govt.

What India needs are strong autonomous regulatory bodies in areas of road transport and safety. But we are country still shackled by the socialist torments of being a poor, developing, deprived nation, hence anything on 4 wheels (even 2 wheels sometimes) is seen as a sign of material excess, not a necessity. So this is never given a priority. South East Asian countries, while not being actually as economically strong on the whole as India, do not have that mindset anymore. Nor do they have any compulsions arising out of the ambition of "Atmanirbhar". So they are happy to receive what they get, usually the better stuff in many aspects compared to India.

[Abhi5868]

Originally Posted by theAutomaniac

Another reason to suspect this is the fact that the Kia Seltos gets longer in China which has strictier crash test norms than India and it gets even longer in Australia, where the crash test norms are even stricter!

I don't know if there's some relation between the length and safety, but this does smell fishy. With these ever increasing allegations regarding the safety aspects of the Koreans, they should do something to clear the air. Even Maruti has the guts to claim there cars to be safe by meeting the Indian regulations, but never heard Hyundai/Kia talking about safety (Infact they didn't acknowledge the Australian Venue getting 4 stars).

I agree with the idea of an autonomous safety regulation body, heck we've one of the strictest Censor board for the entertainment industry. Why not something of that order for the sake of people's lives.

Last but not the least, when our own Indian brands(read: Tata&Mahindra) have taken the initiatives to take the road safety practices to an international standards, the least our government can do is to acknowledge them properly and make other foreign manufacturers comply with.

Also a gentle reminder that while these Koreans like to present their cars as a feature rich package, XUV300 is the only car in that segment and above to get a dual zone Climate control (you can easily order an air purifier from Amazon).

[Carma2017]

From what I hear, in discussions of Government bodies, focus is now on proliferation of active safety tech. As per government studies, it is clear that out of all fatalities that are recorded on Indian roads, 80-90% of Indian junta were found to be not wearing front seat belts. Even lesser percentage wear Rear Seat belts. So, in such a case, no amount of Airbags can protect a user until and unless vehicles are designed as per American standards where crash testing is sans seat belt as well. In such a scenario, active safety measures is the future.

As I understand, discussions are still nascent but planned timelines are relatively aggressive.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by theAutomaniac

A new article by Rushlane says that the Kia Sonet which is soon going to be launched in Indonesia, is 125mm longer than the India spec model!

This is surely something suspicious!

Hyundai doing malpractices related to safety? Most probably, because they have even stopped quoting the weight of their cars in India!

Thankfully, Indonesians have already shown Hyundai/Kia where they can shove their products..!

The Koreans, in Indonesia, are relegated to the equivalent of Fiat in India. The market is extremely dominated by the Japanese (Toyota & Honda), and the rest are just fighting for scraps. Thankfully they, unlike Indians, don’t fall for the junk that Hyundai/Kia sells as they have a notorious reputation for making vehicles which are unsafe, unreliable (compared to the Japanese OEMs) & fall apart with age.

As it is, made in India products are looked down upon in Indonesia, and Hyundai/Kia will just have to be content with licking the scraps of the Indonesian market as it’s mostly Korean expats & a few loyal fans who buy their products.

Kia actually had a much better market share when they were independent from Hyundai (before 2015) and sold a lot of Picanto, Rio, Carens & Sportage vehicles. But after they got into bed with Hyundai, they fell to the bottom like an anchor in water.

Originally Posted by VRJ

Hyundai/Kia have this common line when launching a new car. Every time they say they used a stronger grade steel this time. It’s X% stiffer and stronger. It’s much more safer blah blah blah. Then send it for crash testing and give us the result.

Ah, the advantages of having good PR & a loyal (blind) fan base. The corporation can do no wrong. Sounds familiar??

They will never shoot themselves in the foot & send their vehicles for crash testing (unless by legislation).

Who needs crash tests & extensive R&D when the Indian public are like expendable crash test dummies??

[Thermodynamics]

Retrospectively thinking of under 4m rule, makes me wonder who is the loser at the end of the day. Automakers have cleverly redesigned cars to brim with barely an mm to spare, objective of policy is lost in the first place. All we are left are these contraptions to live with.

[ChoosetoCruze]

Originally Posted by ChoosetoCruze

Ah, the advantages of having good PR & a loyal (blind) fan base. The corporation can do no wrong. Sounds familiar??

They will never shoot themselves in the foot & send their vehicles for crash testing (unless by legislation).

Who needs crash tests & extensive R&D when the Indian public are like expendable crash test dummies??

Originally Posted by VRJ

To be honest, what surprised me the most is Hyundai and Kia. Hyundai has literally changed the 7L-20L segment in India. They’re at the forefront to bring in luxury segment features to mass market cars. Thankful to them. They forced everyone to up their game. However, what about safety? Why don’t they send cars to NCAP like how Tata and M&M did? Why aren’t they confident in their own products?

Originally Posted by Godzilla

Indians value their status/cool image more than safety, so deliver them an unsafe contraption so that they can kill themselves.

Use cool ads and marketing. TV ads for elders and social media for the young. Indians will buy even poison if the ads are cool, as most lack critical thinking.

Oh man, I literally burst out after reading your comments. Extremely well said.

Originally Posted by BZ25

Lately this forum has been incessantly bashing the Koreans. I agree that the brake failure reports is not comforting news, but apart from that the Koreans have done everything else well.

Since when is speaking out the truth called bashing?

Has Godzilla said something that’s incorrect? Have a read of your own sentence which I have quoted, and compare it to the first sentence of Godzilla, which I have quoted. On your quest to defend the Koreans, you have in fact, comically, proven his point even further.

Unfortunately, a lot of people, even on this forum, lack critical thinking and blindly trust everything that’s written here, without fact checking, first.

I never advocate having blind faith in ANYTHING you read on the internet.

Do you own research, draw your own conclusions. Don’t suffer from herd mentality as ultimately, it’s your money at stake and you & your family’s lives at risk.

I have replied to both your posts in this thread as I feel this thread is a more accurate representation of the stereotype Hyundai/Kia have gotten themselves into.

[theAutomaniac]

Originally Posted by BZ25

The Sonet's bumper has been shortened to meet the sub 4 meter norms. Other rivals in it's segment, the Ford Ecosport & Mahindra XUV300, also have seen a reduction in length for the Indian market.

The XUV and Ecosport are from manufacturers who are known for offering sturdy built cars! Also, the Ecosport only recieved a cut at the rear bumper, which isn't really a big deal!

Better not to make any assumptions until their range is tested.

Firstly, I asked a question and did not assume anything. Secondly, even if we assume that Hyundai's are unsafe, why shouldn't we?
Hyundai has only got 3 of their cars crash tested since their entry in the 90s and all three have failed miserably!

Quoting myself from another thread-

Originally Posted by theAutomaniac

More weight might seem to bring more safety in the case of Tata but not Hyundai!

E.g. The 840kg WagonR- (Crash tested car weight 1013kg, scored 6.93 for adult protection and 16.93 for child protection)
Santro- (1099kg crash tested car weight, scored 6.74 for adult protection and 15.00 for child protection)
Conclusion, the WagonR scored marginally better for adult protection and much better (almost 2 more points) for the child protection at the rear, when compared to the 80kg heavier Santro!

As you can see, heavier doesn't always mean safer

Also, the new i20's brochure does not have anything related to the weight mentioned!
Heck even the much lighter(as per what BHPians say!) Baleno's brochure shows it!

If the new i20 actually weighs ~950kgs, it results into the i20 weighing ~80kgs more than the Baleno, which is identical to the weight difference between the WagonR and Santro. And considering that the WagonR scored more than the Santro in the crash test, can we expect the Baleno to be safer than the new i20??

If we go by the WagonR-Santro logic, I think it is fairly legit to assume that Hyundai cars are not even as safe as rival Maruti cars, which are already very unsafe cars!

Ofcourse I will be proved wrong (and I want to be proved wrong) whenever Hyundai crash tests their current range of cars!

Until then, rumors and assumptions can be made because, they do not say anything about safety of their cars either!

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by theAutomaniac

Ofcourse I will be proved wrong (and I want to be proved wrong) whenever Hyundai crash tests their current range of cars!

Until then, rumors and assumptions can be made because, they do not say anything about safety of their cars either!

Sorry brother, if Hyundai wanted to go public with crash test results, it would have already done it. Hyundai’s stubborn refusal to have its Indian range crash tested obviously points to an attempt to hide something. Crash test ratings have become a big draw after all, just walk into any Tata showroom and see. The cost of getting the test done is nothing in front of the massive PR a good result generates. The fact that none of Hyundai’s new cars have gone to GNCAP means it is a deliberate corporate decision. My guess is that they know they are getting away with it and they don’t want to be caught with their pants down.

[fhdowntheline]

I agree with the view that there is a distinct generalization on safety matters regarding the Koreans that has been witnessed in the past couple of months especially since the Seltos braking issues came to the fore.

If there were so many safety issues associated with these cars (and we are talking over 5 lac cars per year sold in India, pre Seltos), then these issues would have come out in the open.

To date, no casual car driver I have talked to has talked about Hyundai cars being unsafe, and I have plenty of non-enthusiast car owners as friends.